To Sell or Not to Sell?

[SCCWS]

12 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

They have to sell.  They have to get multiple young arms in here to have a chance.  Yes they may end up having to trade prospects - but for young major league ready pitchers, not veterans with 2 years left on their deal.   But now they have the opportunity to trade veterans:  Abreu, Colome and even McCann need to be on the block.  You don't have to force a trade, but see if someone will overpay.

Bummer is controlled through 2024 so he would be toward the bottom of the trade list.

 

I am not sure you trade McCann. Many posters have said all year how good he is with the staff. Not sure you then trade him to bring in young arms and hve them working w lousy catchers. Also catching is hard to find and it appears we finally found one. 

I am all for trading Abrue but I don't agree w Greg that a pure rental w fielding issues will bring 3-4 outstanding prospects.  Maybe 1 and a couple of hopefuls. Encarnacion brought Seattle 1 hopeful prospect and $10M salary relief.  

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

I didn't get a chance to watch the second Oakland game. My wife checked the score on her cell phone and then was hesitant to tell me the score. I told her just tell me and she need not worry about my reaction.  At that time, it was 12-2. Lopsided losses are more common for the White Sox because of lack of major league depth. For the time being I would like to keep the few major league caliber players the team has. The White Sox are supposed to have all these great young talent. Why would the team trade for more prospects?

There are no absolutes, but I don't think the team should sell to pursue non-stop rebuilding.

THIS!

We need to start moving out of rebuilding mode and into trying to compete mode, starting next season. 

After this season, we only” have four more years of control over two of the arguably more important pieces of the rebuild in Moncada and Giolito.  Burning another year in 2020 in a year that looks and feels like this season shortens the  “window” of competitiveness we’ve been talking so much about since 2016 to a mere three years with Yoan and Lucas still in the mix.  

Obviously certain injuries have slowed down the progress and timetable around that competitive window, and we’re still awaiting the arrival of the next wave of elite prospects who are currently killing it down in the minors.  But similar to how the Cubs surprised in 2015 and were not only competitive that season, but made a nice playoff run, it would be great for the fan base if the Sox could compete in 2020, taking advantage of one of the four years of control remaining over Moncada and Giolito.  

So all of this talk about trading Abreu, Colome, et al for prospects, prospects, and more prospects, would have made more sense a year ago, two years ago.  But we have to get going on the competing front. It’s time to start winning.  

The 4th longest playoff drought in baseball called and said “Please end this drought in 2020!  It’s time!”

[Jack Parkman]

But guys, this is the last time they can sell and add to the farm system. It should be the obvious move, as this is their final non-contending year. As such, they have to be more prudent and be willing to hold if the value isn't there. 

I think that unless the offers are atrocious, you trade Colome and Bummer. You can always get more relievers. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[ChiSox59]

All depends on the returns.

I would be open to trading Colome, Bummer and Leury. But the return would have to be good enough to justify as those guys would all be important pieces in 2020, and in Bummers case a future bullpen fixture. But you should always sell high on relievers. Fry has shown us that this season.

I’d move Abreu is the return isn’t trash. I don’t expect much, but if it’s a piece we can plug in right away and see what we have, it may be worth it. Abreu probably comes back regardless. 

I’d be happy to move any of Jay, Yolmer, Castillo for pretty much anything. Don’t think there will be a ton of interest behind salary dumps there, though. 

[BamaDoc]

I am getting some stuff together on a 40 man roster post but in a nutshell, the time for trading for multiple fringy prospects is over.  We won't have the room to protect them or someone else valuable.  You need to add high end prospects which if they are close to the majors, often will need 40 man protection.  We need to emphasize high end return not AAAA players and those are usually younger and thus further away.  Our time to try a bunch of players and see if someone sticks is pretty much over at the end of this season.  The Dodger rumor makes sense roster wise in that we trade two spots for one thus improving the later 40 man crunch.  Please don't knee jerk and say there are plenty to cut from the 40 man, there are, but there are more who need to be protected than in some other years.

[NWINFan]

I agree with Fan O'Faust. The window to compete will be there only for so long, and it is time to end the drought.

One other thing: One key to this rebuild is the belief that the process is moving along and working. Being two under at the ASB is not great, but the improvement is good for the team's confidence. I don' t think that the team will finish .500 or above this year. But if it can get that loss number under 90, that would be significant. 

[BamaDoc]

I hope Jay may appeal to someone looking for a vet down the stretch but he might get you a lottery ticket in AZL or DSL.  Same for most of what is tradeable.  Maybe we could package some borderline people of ours to get a better prospect back.  Maybe one of a Jay, Castillo, Yolmer, Leury with a Fulmer or Hansen can get a better return while helping roster issues down the road.

[Lip Man 1]

You sell if you can get a team in contention panicking somewhat and offered the moon for some of the Sox players. Otherwise you hang on to them especially those with deals in place for next year.

[Chicago White Sox]

57 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I hope Jay may appeal to someone looking for a vet down the stretch but he might get you a lottery ticket in AZL or DSL.  Same for most of what is tradeable.  Maybe we could package some borderline people of ours to get a better prospect back.  Maybe one of a Jay, Castillo, Yolmer, Leury with a Fulmer or Hansen can get a better return while helping roster issues down the road.

I’m not trying to be a dick but:

Bad + Bad <> Good

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, BamaDoc said:

I am getting some stuff together on a 40 man roster post but in a nutshell, the time for trading for multiple fringy prospects is over.  We won't have the room to protect them or someone else valuable.  You need to add high end prospects which if they are close to the majors, often will need 40 man protection.  We need to emphasize high end return not AAAA players and those are usually younger and thus further away.  Our time to try a bunch of players and see if someone sticks is pretty much over at the end of this season.  The Dodger rumor makes sense roster wise in that we trade two spots for one thus improving the later 40 man crunch.  Please don't knee jerk and say there are plenty to cut from the 40 man, there are, but there are more who need to be protected than in some other years.

Agreed. No fringy guys, only top guys. If the offers aren't there, hold and hope for the best. 

[OneDog847]

2 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

I am getting some stuff together on a 40 man roster post but in a nutshell, the time for trading for multiple fringy prospects is over.  We won't have the room to protect them or someone else valuable.  You need to add high end prospects which if they are close to the majors, often will need 40 man protection.  We need to emphasize high end return not AAAA players and those are usually younger and thus further away.  Our time to try a bunch of players and see if someone sticks is pretty much over at the end of this season.  The Dodger rumor makes sense roster wise in that we trade two spots for one thus improving the later 40 man crunch.  Please don't knee jerk and say there are plenty to cut from the 40 man, there are, but there are more who need to be protected than in some other years.

Almost half the Sox 40 man is AAAA type filler. It is why they are still able to add guys like AJ Reed without thinking twice. 

The Sox should still be in trade mode this year. They need to continue to stock the farm. 

[Jack Parkman]

If it answers anyone's question on whether or not to sell, Eric Longenhagen said that without Robert and Madrigal, the Sox farm would be around 25th-27th in baseball. That is bottom 5 territory. 

They need more prospects. 

[BackDoorBreach]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

If it answers anyone's question on whether or not to sell, Eric Longenhagen said that without Robert and Madrigal, the Sox farm would be around 25th-27th in baseball. That is bottom 5 territory. 

They need more prospects. 

Yep, we've promoted a lot of guys the last couple years and the rest got destroyed by injuries.  We don't have much of a well to draw from after the rest get promoted this year/early next year.

[Capital G]

You look and see what you can get for colome, bummer, McCann. But don't trade any for a Cordell level prospect. 

 

If that's all we can get just hold. If we can pull May from LA you do it.

[Soxfest]

Sell 100% not in playoff window in 19

[OneDog847]

7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

But guys, this is the last time they can sell and add to the farm system. It should be the obvious move, as this is their final non-contending year. As such, they have to be more prudent and be willing to hold if the value isn't there. 

I think that unless the offers are atrocious, you trade Colome and Bummer. You can always get more relievers. 

Why are you so certain that this is their last non-contending year? The Sox are going to have a lot of guys learning on the job next year. 2020 could easily be another developmental year. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

If it answers anyone's question on whether or not to sell, Eric Longenhagen said that without Robert and Madrigal, the Sox farm would be around 25th-27th in baseball. That is bottom 5 territory. 

They need more prospects. 

Farm system rankings should have no bearing whatsoever on our decision making.  We should make trades that improve our chances to win both next year and into the future.

[Jack Parkman]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Farm system rankings should have no bearing whatsoever on our decision making.  We should make trades that improve our chances to win both next year and into the future.

Not having chips that other teams want while the Sox are in their window is a possibility that needs to be taken into account. 

Think about what you could acquire for Sox minor leaguers outside of Vaughn, Robert and Madrigal. 

If you answered nothing useful, you'd be correct. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[OneDog847]

37 minutes ago, Capital G said:

You look and see what you can get for colome, bummer, McCann. But don't trade any for a Cordell level prospect. 

 

If that's all we can get just hold. If we can pull May from LA you do it.

What does this even mean? 

[Capital G]

19 minutes ago, OneDog847 said:

What does this even mean? 

What part do you not understand? If you outline that I may be able to explain it to you in a different way. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Capital G

[poppysox]

8 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s trash for this year, but next year is another story.  You’d definitely have to go out and sign some relievers in the offseason.

Not easy to replace relievers like Colome & Bummer.  They should only be traded for major league ready outfielder or starting pitcher IMO.

[Chicago White Sox]

24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Not having chips that other teams want while the Sox are in their window is a possibility that needs to be taken into account. 

Think about what you could acquire for Sox minor leaguers outside of Vaughn, Robert and Madrigal. 

If you answered nothing useful, you'd be correct. 

God you’re become fucking Greg with these hot takes.  You’re honestly telling me that trading some combo of Dunning, Walker, Sheets, Basabe, Rutherford, Adolfo, & Stiever would get us “nothing useful”?

[Sarava]

Rebuilding an entire bullpen from scratch this off-season doesn't seem likely. I'd hate to have all the young guns blazing next year, but the year gets screwed over by a garbage bullpen. That said, if you can get a top 50 prospect, that's hard to say no to. I doubt the Dodgers would offer that, though.

[OneDog847]

36 minutes ago, Capital G said:

What part do you not understand? If you outline that I may be able to explain it to you in a different way. 

Why single out Cordell? He was a near mlb ready prospect that was blocked. These are the guys the Sox should be trying to trade for. 

Do you mean don't make a trade just to make a trade? 

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Sarava said:

Rebuilding an entire bullpen from scratch this off-season doesn't seem likely. I'd hate to have all the young guns blazing next year, but the year gets screwed over by a garbage bullpen. That said, if you can get a top 50 prospect, that's hard to say no to. I doubt the Dodgers would offer that, though.

I agree, but let’s say you can get May for Colome & Bummer.  Add one quality free agent starter (say Wheeler as an example) and suddenly you have a rotation of Giolito, Wheeler, Cease, Kopech, & May.  That is a cheap (like $20M next year), incredibly talented rotation that sets you up for years to come.  Plus you have Rodon coming back to fill in for one of the young guys in the second half and Dane Dunning to eventually factor in the mix as needed.

At that point, you can easily move Lopez to the bullpen and try him in a setup role.  Fry is still around and I still believe he can be a damn good LH reliever.  Herrera has been complete garbage this year, but I still believe he’s not 100% yet and I’m ok gambling on him being an effective middle reliever next year.  We’d have to add two high end relievers via free agency and probably at least one lesser guy to fill a role until one of our younger guys is ready, but I think it’s definitely doable.