The rumors were (partially) true: Collins to AAA

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I think that was worse than the Shields trade.

Have you been following just how good Tatis has become ? When he was tearing through the minors I remember saying to those saying how bad the trade was can we at least see if he becomes a quality major league ballplayer . Well it's official unless he's a 1 year wonder but he is really good.

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

Did something change with Zack Collins after his demotion? His approach, hands, stance, anything? If so what did he do? His K% has continued to go down since the demotion, and the results have been pretty encouraging so far. I realize 17 games and 74 PA are a small sample size, but Collins had never had a month in his time in the Sox minor league system where his K% was under 20.4%. In fact in the 15 months (I put Aug/Sept together) of playing games in the Sox system, 9 of those 15 months he had over a 30% K rate, including all of his last 6 months.  I hope he changed something or fixed an issue he had, because if he could take his K rate under 18% consistently he would be a damn good piece for the rebuild.

 

Since his demotion (17 G) Collins has the following line:

 

.322/.446/.525, .971 OPS, .203 ISO, 152 wRC+, .370 BABIP, 16.2% BB%, 16.2% K%. 2 HRs, 6 2Bs, 59 ABs, 17 RBI.

In his last 14 games his #s are .347/.450/.571, 1.021 OPS, .224 ISO, 161 wRC+, .375 BABIP, 13.3% BB%, 13.3% K%. 2 HRs, 5 2Bs, 49 ABs, 15 RBI.

 

In just AA/AAA the past 2 seasons here are his K%, BB%, wRC+,BABIP. AVG/OBP/SLG, OPS:

 

[Sox Fan In Husker Land]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Have you been following just how good Tatis has become ? When he was tearing through the minors I remember saying to those saying how bad the trade was can we at least see if he becomes a quality major league ballplayer . Well it's official unless he's a 1 year wonder but he is really good.

Tatis is an extremely good player, and will be for awhile, but he will be due for some regression. His xBA is at .258, while he's hitting .326. His BABIP is .417. His xSLG is .484, his actual SLG is .607. He is still only 20 though, and if he put up a .900 OPS at SS once regression hits, it is still freakishly good. Once (if) he starts cutting his K% down and he stays healthy he will be one of the Top 5-10 players in MLB every single season.

[Jose Abreu]

11 minutes ago, Sox Fan In Husker Land said:

Did something change with Zack Collins after his demotion? His approach, hands, stance, anything? If so what did he do? His K% has continued to go down since the demotion, and the results have been pretty encouraging so far. I realize 17 games and 74 PA are a small sample size, but Collins had never had a month in his time in the Sox minor league system where his K% was under 20.4%. In fact in the 15 months (I put Aug/Sept together) of playing games in the Sox system, 9 of those 15 months he had over a 30% K rate, including all of his last 6 months.  I hope he changed something or fixed an issue he had, because if he could take his K rate under 18% consistently he would be a damn good piece for the rebuild.

 

Since his demotion (17 G) Collins has the following line:

 

.322/.446/.525, .971 OPS, .203 ISO, 152 wRC+, .370 BABIP, 16.2% BB%, 16.2% K%. 2 HRs, 6 2Bs, 59 ABs, 17 RBI.

In his last 14 games his #s are .347/.450/.571, 1.021 OPS, .224 ISO, 161 wRC+, .375 BABIP, 13.3% BB%, 13.3% K%. 2 HRs, 5 2Bs, 49 ABs, 15 RBI.

 

In just AA/AAA the past 2 seasons here are his K%, BB%, wRC+,BABIP. AVG/OBP/SLG, OPS:

 

He has reduced his hitch, is being more aggressive early in counts (sort of how Moncada adjusted from 2018 to 2019), and seems to have done something with his hands pre-pitch. They're located differently now

[Boopa1219]

Collins should be called up and be given regular playing time. He’s on fire now and I don’t think he has anything left to prove at AAA

[Hatchetman]

9 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Collins should be called up and be given regular playing time. He’s on fire now and I don’t think he has anything left to prove at AAA

Exactly. At least you could get a read on if he can realistically catch from a defensive standpoint.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

Is there a noticeable change in Collins' swing from when he got sent down to now that would explain his success? Or is it pretty much the same swing and he's just on a hot streak?

[Dam8610]

9 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Is there a noticeable change in Collins' swing from when he got sent down to now that would explain his success? Or is it pretty much the same swing and he's just on a hot streak?

As several people have stated, he changed his hand positioning pre-swing, which has cut down on his hitch. The results speak for themselves.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Is there a noticeable change in Collins' swing from when he got sent down to now that would explain his success? Or is it pretty much the same swing and he's just on a hot streak?

Appears he has made a number of changes in his approach and load/swing.

There's always hope:

After winning Reds Minor League player of the year honors in 2016, Aristides Aquino stalled mightily in Double-A during the next two seasons. He did slam 37 homers in 245 games at Penascola, but he batted an overall .227/.293/.421 and fell out of the Reds' Top 30 Prospects list.

While Aquino had impressive raw power and arm strength, he looked doomed to become just another toolsy prospect waylaid by an inability to make quality contact. The Reds removed the outfielder from their 40-man roster last November and non-tendered him, though they re-signed him to a Minor League contract the next day.

Adopting an exaggerated open stance this spring has made a world of difference for Aquino, who spent the first four months of this season batting .299/.356/.636 with 28 homers in 78 Triple-A games. Called to Cincinnati on Aug. 1 after Yasiel Puig went to the Indians in the Trevor Bauer trade, "The Punisher" became the first big leaguer ever to deliver eight homers in his first 12 games, including three in one contest against the Cubs.

[kitekrazy]

12 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Collins should be called up and be given regular playing time. He’s on fire now and I don’t think he has anything left to prove at AAA

He probably needs more work behind the plate.  The Sox only have one catcher as it is and that other guy still remains on the team.

[skooch]

And keep in mind that Collins' Aug 2019 BABIP is only 0.182!

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, skooch said:

And keep in mind that Collins' Aug 2019 BABIP is only 0.182!

His August BABIP is .333

[skooch]

Oops ... didn't notice that the post with the stats was from August 9th.

[Chicago White Sox]

Another Collins bomb tonight.

[reiks12]

i have a bad feeling Collins will be traded this offseason

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, reiks12 said:

i have a bad feeling Collins will be traded this offseason

For...?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, reiks12 said:

i have a bad feeling Collins will be traded this offseason

I don't think so.Sox are desperate for a LH power hitter and more OBP . He provides both. Also desperately need some DH production , someone to play backup 1st and backup catcher. He's like everything they need if he can hit ML pitching.

[TheTruth05]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't think so.Sox are desperate for a LH power hitter and more OBP . He provides both. Also desperately need some DH production , someone to play backup 1st and backup catcher. He's like everything they need if he can hit ML pitching.

I agree with you, I actually think they might be more open to moving Vaughn for a young,controllable RF next season is Collins can show his adjustments are real and can play 1B and backup C passable. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

I agree with you, I actually think they might be more open to moving Vaughn for a young,controllable RF next season is Collins can show his adjustments are real and can play 1B and backup C passable. 

Don't see them moving either one. If Collins isn't the LH power bat they need, Vaughn may provide power and OBP from the right side and potential starter at 1st with a decent glove. They need some power/middle of the order hitters and cheap ones at that. They're/we're hoping Vaughn can advance through the minors quickly.

[TheTruth05]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Don't see them moving either one. If Collins isn't the LH power bat they need, Vaughn may provide power and OBP from the right side and potential starter at 1st with a decent glove. They need some power/middle of the order hitters and cheap ones at that. They're/we're hoping Vaughn can advance through the minors quickly.

When Vaughn comes up he probably will never be platooned so I don't think Collins would weigh much on that, but if Collins can provide OBP and some power from the 1b position then I can see the Sox dangling Vaughn out there to look for a permanent fix for RF which right now is a pretty big hole in the org. Maybe one of the Gonzalez,Walker,Adolfo,Basabe breaks out but I don't think the Sox should bet on that considering their core is almost fully ready to compete in the bigs.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just now, TheTruth05 said:

When Vaughn comes up he probably will never be platooned so I don't think Collins would weigh much on that, but if Collins can provide OBP and some power from the 1b position then I can see the Sox dangling Vaughn out there to look for a permanent fix for RF which right now is a pretty big hole in the org. Maybe one of the Gonzalez,Walker,Adolfo,Basabe breaks out but I don't think the Sox should bet on that considering their core is almost fully ready to compete in the bigs.

But having a good to very good Collins and Vaughn is very important to the rebuild and makes buying free agents much easier when holes are filled. Sox can't give up 6 years to buy expensive veterans for only a few years. They have payroll space, use it. I don't think the Sox are serious about competing next year so they might try to find a RF for a year and wait on the minor league OF's.

 I say they aren't serious because they are still letting guys like Castillo, Goins and Engel play a lot instead of giving AB's to Mercedes, Mendick, Collins, Robert or Madrigal. Now we can debate who is ready and who isn't among that group  but it just seems to me that if they are going to wait until late April to bring up Robert and Madrigal or maybe just Robert, then it's like they don't care about having the best possible lineup out there at the beginning of the season. Wins in April count just as much as wins in September. If you want to win worrying about an extra year of control on some guys isn't really about winning asap. Maybe they still want a higher draft position and that's why the scrubs are still playing. I would think Mercedes , Mendick and Collins might be up in Sept. but not Robert and Madrigal.

[Perfect Vision]

My preference would be for McCann to be the primary catcher again next year and Collins the backup (catching 1 out of every 4 or 5 games), with Collins being the DH on days he's not catching, and McCann the DH when Collins is catching. That will give the coaches a full year to evaluate Collins defense and make a final determination on whether he can be a starting catcher.  That will also likely take the Sox out of any Grandal pursuit.  Since McCann is a near guarantee of being back next year, signing Grandal would essentially close the door on Collins ever being a catcher for the Sox, and I don't think they're ready to do that.

[TheTruth05]

28 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But having a good to very good Collins and Vaughn is very important to the rebuild and makes buying free agents much easier when holes are filled. Sox can't give up 6 years to buy expensive veterans for only a few years. They have payroll space, use it. I don't think the Sox are serious about competing next year so they might try to find a RF for a year and wait on the minor league OF's.

 I say they aren't serious because they are still letting guys like Castillo, Goins and Engel play a lot instead of giving AB's to Mercedes, Mendick, Collins, Robert or Madrigal. Now we can debate who is ready and who isn't among that group  but it just seems to me that if they are going to wait until late April to bring up Robert and Madrigal or maybe just Robert, then it's like they don't care about having the best possible lineup out there at the beginning of the season. Wins in April count just as much as wins in September. If you want to win worrying about an extra year of control on some guys isn't really about winning asap. Maybe they still want a higher draft position and that's why the scrubs are still playing. I would think Mercedes , Mendick and Collins might be up in Sept. but not Robert and Madrigal.

I am more or less referencing something to the tune of the Yelich trade so it wouldn't be Vaughn for a vet with 2 years left of control but FA is becoming increasingly weak with team extensions and Sox really only have a hypothetical "hole" in the org which is RF. I'm in agreement ideally we would be able to sign a RF instead of having to trade from the farm but when someone like Ozuna/Puig is the best FA option in what might be a possible contending year, it isn't the worst possible scenario but the Sox should be exploring an option where (I'm a huge Vaughn fan btw) they can trade a 1b, elite bat in Vaughn for a stud RF prospect. Now where that OF might come from is a different story, just saying 1b decent glove, good OBP and power is a bit easier to find than an all around stud OF.

 

I think the best option was to call Mendick and Robert up 2 weeks ago and let Robert get acclimated to MLB pitching and Yermin see what you have in him as a possible platoon bat to Collins (at DH of course). I am really in the camp the Sox can compete without having those guys up until May, is it the best option? hell no but I still will consider next year a contending year because most of the main core should and will be up fairly early in the season. Not to mention the clocks on 2 of our best players (Gio, Moncada) are ticking. The Sox need to shape up sooner rather than later.

Edited August 16, 2019 by TheTruth05

[Jack Parkman]

31 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

I am more or less referencing something to the tune of the Yelich trade so it wouldn't be Vaughn for a vet with 2 years left of control but FA is becoming increasingly weak with team extensions and Sox really only have a hypothetical "hole" in the org which is RF. I'm in agreement ideally we would be able to sign a RF instead of having to trade from the farm but when someone like Ozuna/Puig is the best FA option in what might be a possible contending year, it isn't the worst possible scenario but the Sox should be exploring an option where (I'm a huge Vaughn fan btw) they can trade a 1b, elite bat in Vaughn for a stud RF prospect. Now where that OF might come from is a different story, just saying 1b decent glove, good OBP and power is a bit easier to find than an all around stud OF.

 

I think the best option was to call Mendick and Robert up 2 weeks ago and let Robert get acclimated to MLB pitching and Yermin see what you have in him as a possible platoon bat to Collins (at DH of course). I am really in the camp the Sox can compete without having those guys up until May, is it the best option? hell no but I still will consider next year a contending year because most of the main core should and will be up fairly early in the season. Not to mention the clocks on 2 of our best players (Gio, Moncada) are ticking. The Sox need to shape up sooner rather than later.

Nobody talks about this enough. They're at the point where it makes zero sense to play silly service time games. You play service games with the first wave, then you bring up the second wave ASAP. If they're going to play games with every kid they draft or acquire, then they'll never have enough talent performing at a high level simultaneously to produce more than 85 wins or so. 

Robert, Madrigal, and Collins should be up here getting regular ABs Monday. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[raBBit]

I am almost hoping Charlotte doesn't make the playoffs. We need to see Collins ASAP. No reason to trout out this trash any longer.