soxfan49 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Great start to the year, struggled lately. Is he an ace? Maybe he's a good #2 or even a #3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:26 PM, soxfan49 said: Great start to the year, struggled lately. Is he an ace? Maybe he's a good #2 or even a #3? Expand Aces can struggle too. 6 innings and 3 ER is still good lol. He's just got touched up by the Cubs really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) Based on the fragility of his delivery, I can say he's a safe bet to be a #3, will have years where he pitches like a # 2, and he will pitch like an ace for stretches. He's probably always going to be inconsistent and maddening to people, because you see the ace in him but he can't keep his shit together long enough to actually pull it off. He's going to have stretches where he's absolutely dominant and stretches when he's average or worse. The truth lies somewhere in between. I say this as one of his biggest fans. It is what it is. Edited July 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, Jack Parkman said: Based on the fragility of his delivery, I can't say that he's anything more than a #3-4 that can pitch like an ace for stretches. He's probably always going to be inconsistent and maddening to people, because you see the ace in him but he can't keep his shit together long enough to actually pull it off. Expand Let's overreact to two bad starts against the Cubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwest Sider Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On a perfect pitching staff, Giolito to me seems like an awesome #2 or perfect #3. Aces are just so rare. But hey, it's true, aces do struggle too. Look at Sale this year. If nothing else, I think Giolito is still perfecting the repeatability of his delivery, and polishing the mental side of his game. If he doesn't lose any of his stuff, he will be perfectly fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jose Abreu Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, Jack Parkman said: Based on the fragility of his delivery, I can't say that he's anything more than a #3-4 that can pitch like an ace for stretches. He's probably always going to be inconsistent and maddening to people, because you see the ace in him but he can't keep his shit together long enough to actually pull it off. He's going to have stretches where he's absolutely dominant and stretches when he's trash. The truth lies somewhere in between. I say this as one of his biggest fans. It is what it is. Expand This is so perplexing. You spent a lot of last season telling everyone that Giolito was interesting and may become something good, and props to you for that. Now he's having an all-star season, and as one of his "biggest fans" (which you kind of aren't, if this is your opinion on him), he's now "nothing more than a 3-4"? That's ridiculous, he isn't the 1.5 ERA guy he was in May but he also isn't suddenly a #4 pitcher. Long-term I think he's a very good #2 or low-end #1 but two bad starts (and really just two bad innings, if we're being honest) doesn't take a guy from future ace to #4. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:34 PM, GGajewski18 said: Let's overreact to two bad starts against the Cubs. Expand It's not just that. His command started to falter during his game vs. The Yankees and he hadn't found it since. He's so out of whack now that he's throwing 92-93 again so that is an issue. You know he's right when he's hitting 97 multiple times in an outing. He's way off right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think Cease has a better chance of being an ace than Gio because he has better raw stuff than Gio. Cease has an out pitch that he can control in his curveball but he will need to be able to get his fastball and other offerings over the plate as well. But Gio can be a very good #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:40 PM, Moan4Yoan said: I think Cease has a better chance of being an ace than Gio because he has better raw stuff than Gio. Cease has an out pitch that he can control in his curveball but he will need to be able to get his fastball and other offerings over the plate as well. But Gio can be a very good #2. Expand Have you seen Gio's change up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 There are only about 10-15 pitchers in MLB at a given point in time that you could consider true "aces". Fact is not every team will have an ace. If the question is if Giolito could be a top 30 pitcher in this league, I think without a doubt he could. But even then some people wouldn't consider him an ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 The only way Giolito can pull off being an ace is if he can repeat his delivery. It seems like it has always been a problem, and maybe he's going through a dead arm period and he's become out of whack. I can safely say at this point that his upside is a strong #2 but I don't know if he's ever going to be consistent enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:31 PM, GGajewski18 said: Aces can struggle too. 6 innings and 3 ER is still good lol. He's just got touched up by the Cubs really. Expand A 4.50 ERA and a 1.33 WHIP against the Royals isn't "good." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:48 PM, soxfan49 said: A 4.50 ERA and a 1.33 WHIP against the Royals isn't "good." Expand 6 innings 1 walk and 5 Ks, 3 ER is still a QS that keeps his team in the game. Sorry he needs to go 7-8 and give up 1-2 runs every single game. That's just not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 The only answer is no one has any idea what Giolito is going forward. He has a brand new delivery that is going to tax his body in different ways, so he's hit a wall. We don't know if he'll get over it or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) On 7/16/2019 at 1:50 PM, mqr said: The only answer is no one has any idea what Giolito is going forward. He has a brand new delivery that is going to tax his body in different ways, so he's hit a wall. We don't know if he'll get over it or not. Expand ^^^ This. We have to let it play out. Edited July 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:40 PM, Moan4Yoan said: I think Cease has a better chance of being an ace than Gio because he has better raw stuff than Gio. Cease has an out pitch that he can control in his curveball but he will need to be able to get his fastball and other offerings over the plate as well. But Gio can be a very good #2. Expand How much raw stuff did Buehrle have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 I think he can project to a Trevor Bauer esque pitcher...good overall that can show extended flashes of brilliance, but will also be frustrating at times. And I’d be perfectly ok with that projection if it were true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:57 PM, TheFutureIsNear said: I think he can project to a Trevor Bauer esque pitcher...good overall that can show extended flashes of brilliance, but will also be frustrating at times. And I’d be perfectly ok with that projection if it were true Expand ^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackout Friday Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:45 PM, thxfrthmmrs said: There are only about 10-15 pitchers in MLB at a given point in time that you could consider true "aces". Fact is not every team will have an ace. If the question is if Giolito could be a top 30 pitcher in this league, I think without a doubt he could. But even then some people wouldn't consider him an ace. Expand Good take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 Btw in Cease's start today watch how hitters react to his curveball vs his slider. He might be similar to Giolito in his slider is a more effective out pitch than his curveball. The difference is that Cease can throw his curveball for strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:37 PM, Jose Abreu said: This is so perplexing. You spent a lot of last season telling everyone that Giolito was interesting and may become something good, and props to you for that. Now he's having an all-star season, and as one of his "biggest fans" (which you kind of aren't, if this is your opinion on him), he's now "nothing more than a 3-4"? That's ridiculous, he isn't the 1.5 ERA guy he was in May but he also isn't suddenly a #4 pitcher. Long-term I think he's a very good #2 or low-end #1 but two bad starts (and really just two bad innings, if we're being honest) doesn't take a guy from future ace to #4. Expand When I said that, I meant I have Cease and Kopech definitely ahead of him at this point I don't think he's a "true talent" #3-4 but I think he could end up that in the Sox rotation. You're going to have arguments of consistency vs. pure upside between him and someone like Dunning. In terms of true talent, he's probably a #2 or #3, fluctuating from year to year Whomever said Trevor Bauer has the right idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:57 PM, knightni said: How much raw stuff did Buehrle have? Expand He was the opposite of the norm of an ace. Didn’t have a good fastball but had really good breaking stuff and ridiculous control. But how many Maddux-like starters are out there? They are more of the exception, not the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan49 Posted July 16, 2019 Author Share Posted July 16, 2019 On 7/16/2019 at 1:53 PM, Jack Parkman said: ^^^ This. We have to let it play out. Expand You're back to being all over. You said to let it out play here but minutes before you made this comment, seemingly implying that he'll never be an ace or even a #2. "I can't say that he's anything more than a #3-4 that can pitch like an ace for stretches. He's probably always going to be inconsistent and maddening to people, because you see the ace in him but he can't keep his shit together long enough to actually pull it off." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) I think he's a 2, but I also think he comps pretty well with Scherzer. I'm undecided, but at this point if you asked if I wanted him to start game 7 of the world series, I'd say no. So in that regard, he's not an ace. Also, Buehrle wasn't an ace. Out of all our pitchers, I think Kopech is the ace because he has the heaviest fastball. Edited July 16, 2019 by TaylorStSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 16, 2019 Share Posted July 16, 2019 (edited) On 7/16/2019 at 2:39 PM, soxfan49 said: You're back to being all over. You said to let it out play here but minutes before you made this comment, seemingly implying that he'll never be an ace or even a #2. "I can't say that he's anything more than a #3-4 that can pitch like an ace for stretches. He's probably always going to be inconsistent and maddening to people, because you see the ace in him but he can't keep his shit together long enough to actually pull it off." Expand I decided that it was too harsh. I definitely have Cease and Kopech ahead of him. Someone brought up Trevor Bauer and it made me reconsider. Edited July 16, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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