Gtrams42 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Worst case scenario he gets TJ surgery. Even in that scenario it’s not like he’s stuck at DH forever. Look at Otani in LA, guy is a 2 way player and even as a DH full time he is having a great season. He’ll be back to pitching and hitting next year without being rushed. Some people here are so worried about player’s value at certain positions. Eloy can still work on his reads, fly balls, and routes while recovering and still be an OF after a year. It’s not like TJ is endgame for his positional career. Plus he’ll still be able to hit, we love him because of his bat not because of his Engel -esque defense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, BFirebird said: The immediate IL and sent to Chicago concerns me, unless it is just because they want team doctors to check him out. I trust @ptatc on anything medical and hope that it is just the hyperextension that he mentions and not the UCL. If it was just a precautionary MRI, they have MRIs in KC. You think they would probably have a Royals doc give him one. I am guessing there was some consultation and there is reason to believe the Sox feel theyneed their doctors on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Gtrams42 said: Worst case scenario he gets TJ surgery. Even in that scenario it’s not like he’s stuck at DH forever. Look at Otani in LA, guy is a 2 way player and even as a DH full time he is having a great season. He’ll be back to pitching and hitting next year without being rushed. Some people here are so worried about player’s value at certain positions. Eloy can still work on his reads, fly balls, and routes while recovering and still be an OF after a year. It’s not like TJ is endgame for his positional career. Plus he’ll still be able to hit, we love him because of his bat not because of his Engel -esque defense. The thing is, it's the constant injuries to every one. All the time, season ender after season ender. At some point, you can't count on it stopping and everyone remaining healthy. It's like the Bulls. How many people think their roster is so improved and they will win so many more games? They are already dropping. Just wait until the season starts. Edited July 17, 2019 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The thing is, it's the constant injuries to every one. All the time, season ender after season ender. At some point, you can't count on it stopping and everyone remaining healthy. It's like the Bulls. How many people think their roster is so improved and they will win so many more games? They are already dropping. Just wait until the season starts. Very true about the injuries being one after another. I know it's still a rebuilding year. But what kind of year would we be having if we had everyone healthy? We've now gone extended periods/all year without Jimenez, Anderson, Rodon, Kopech, and even Moncada out a couple of different periods as well. Nearly everyone important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The thing is, it's the constant injuries to every one. All the time, season ender after season ender. At some point, you can't count on it stopping and everyone remaining healthy. It's like the Bulls. How many people think their roster is so improved and they will win so many more games? They are already dropping. Just wait until the season starts. Did you see the articles on ESPN last week about how the AAU basketball kids have been so focused on playing basketball they haven't developed their bodies well and the injury rates among young players in the NBA is skyrocketing as a consequence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Did you see the articles on ESPN last week about how the AAU basketball kids have been so focused on playing basketball they haven't developed their bodies well and the injury rates among young players in the NBA is skyrocketing as a consequence? This is an idea I’ve heard a lot in the past couple years, does that article provide any actual evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The insta-IL without diagnosis to me is a good sign that the trainers who dealt with him thought there is no chance that this is <10 day injury. I would think if it was just the equivalent of a charlie horse or something, there's no way they'd send him to Chicago, let alone send him to the IL. This feels more like one of those cases where he has an injury that can be easily be assessed manually by a trainer but that they always go to an MRI to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: This is an idea I’ve heard a lot in the past couple years, does that article provide any actual evidence? 2 part series run by ESPN last week https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27148543/under-knife-exposing-america-youth-basketball-crisis A dramatic increase in youth ACL surgeries seems like it's something that is actually measureable and reportable, as is an increase in injury games lost amongst NBA players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: This is an idea I’ve heard a lot in the past couple years, does that article provide any actual evidence? I am also extremely skeptical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSpalehoseCWS Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jake said: The insta-IL without diagnosis to me is a good sign that the trainers who dealt with him thought there is no chance that this is <10 day injury. I would think if it was just the equivalent of a charlie horse or something, there's no way they'd send him to Chicago, let alone send him to the IL. This feels more like one of those cases where he has an injury that can be easily be assessed manually by a trainer but that they always go to an MRI to confirm. Very true, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a serious one either. I think we’re all just ready to jump off the ledge because it’s par for the course when it’s the Sox players and their health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 So is Robert on his way up or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Did you see the articles on ESPN last week about how the AAU basketball kids have been so focused on playing basketball they haven't developed their bodies well and the injury rates among young players in the NBA is skyrocketing as a consequence? There was always a school of thought that kids today focus so much on one sport, that it is what causes injuries. Way back when, a lot of kids played ,even if just for fun, the sports that were in season. I know my friends and I would play baseball in the summer, football in the fall, basketball in the winter or spring, even street or floor hockey in the winter. Using different body parts for each let some muscles develop and others to get a break. But something is going on. Players are playing less and less and getting hurt more and more. At least baseball has a 10 day injured list they can use as partial blame. NBA basketball used to be way more physical. Tons of guys averaged 38-40 minutes a night, and didn't take entire games off to rest. Edited July 17, 2019 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 2 part series run by ESPN last week https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27148543/under-knife-exposing-america-youth-basketball-crisis A dramatic increase in youth ACL surgeries seems like it's something that is actually measureable and reportable, as is an increase in injury games lost amongst NBA players. That’s a lot of reading, so I’ll have to dig into it after work but I’m hesitant to think it’s as simple as ‘Kids are more specialized, Kids get hurt more, therefore it’s better to play multiple sports.’ It makes sense on its face, but it seems too convenient a story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, OneDog847 said: I'm saying to not do the surgery at all. Let him rest and try to recover on his own. I'm not concerned about his long term prospects in right field. I'm concerned he has the surgery and never quite recovers ala Micker Adolfo. Let's just hope it something fairly minor anyway and that this is all moot. If it's more than a grade 3 injury, they have to do the surgery. Mickey's issue was the abundance of scar tissue after the surgery not a problem with the UCL. It was an arthroscopic procedure to clean up the tissue. That doesnt happen often but with the nerve and arteries in the area, it needs to be cleaned up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 59 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: If it was just a precautionary MRI, they have MRIs in KC. You think they would probably have a Royals doc give him one. I am guessing there was some consultation and there is reason to believe the Sox feel theyneed their doctors on this. Not necessarily. If it's enough of an issue that he was going on the IL and not play, they would want their own doctors to look at it and do the MRI here. It could very well just be a muscle strain, most likely biceps, and the MRI is to grade the strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxsi75 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: There was always a school of thought that kids today focus so much on one sport, that it is what causes injuries. Way back when, a lot of kids played ,even if just for fun, the sports that were in season. I know my friends and I would play baseball in the summer, football in the fall, basketball in the winter or spring, even street or floor hockey in the winter. Using different body parts for each let some muscles develop and others to get a break. But something is going on. Players are playing less and less and getting hurt more and more. At least baseball has a 10 day injured list they can use as partial blame. NBA basketball used to be way more physical. Tons of guys averaged 38-40 minutes a night, and didn't take entire games off to rest. I grew up doing exactly the same thing you did and from how you described your comment, quite possibly in the same era. And you're right, players are playing less and less and getting hurt more. Here's a possible theory I've had for awhile. Players today are unquestionably bigger and stronger then they ever were, and it's becoming more and more so all the time. Kids today would probably be shocked at what players looked like in the 70's, how small they are. Especially in the NBA. Kids today would probably believe George Gervin would have no chance to play in today's NBA because of how skinny he was. But is getting so much bigger and muscular increasing your chances of getting hurt? Because if you are doing so much to develop your muscles, are you doing the equal amount of work to strengthen your tendons and ligaments? My guess is probably not, but if you are that much more muscular, are you putting more pressure on things like your tendons and ligaments? I'm not a Doctor, but it's a thought I've had. I've tried to think of it in primitive terms. Think back to when you were a kid playing sports year round. There's no such thing as a muscular 10 year old. And so did you ever here of a 10 year old kid tearing his UCL because he ran into his friend playing baseball in the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Did you see the articles on ESPN last week about how the AAU basketball kids have been so focused on playing basketball they haven't developed their bodies well and the injury rates among young players in the NBA is skyrocketing as a consequence? Its a legitimate point. The theory is that with always doing the same activity, there is the same forces and stress on the same structures so they break down faster. Being a biomechanical researchers, I'm a little biased but I agree with the theory. Tissue can only take so much stress before the start to break down. No one should ever do the same thing time and again. Runners are a prime example and I work with them quite a bit. Always running the same speed and cadence leads to stress always being the same. Every runner should change speeds and cadence throughout every workout. This changes the stress and we know it leads to fewer injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Sox Twitter is going to explode when the Sox announce that they'd purchased the contract of....Ryan Goins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuliusO1274 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said: The offense being terrible in a lost season isn’t really a good justification to lose an extra year of control on Robert and Madrigal. I hope they wait until April of next year. It is unless you want next year to be another lost season. Players need time to develop in the majors too and it is better for them to do so in a lost season. Edited July 17, 2019 by JuliusO1274 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, ptatc said: Its a legitimate point. The theory is that with always doing the same activity, there is the same forces and stress on the same structures so they break down faster. Being a biomechanical researchers, I'm a little biased but I agree with the theory. Tissue can only take so much stress before the start to break down. No one should ever do the same thing time and again. Runners are a prime example and I work with them quite a bit. Always running the same speed and cadence leads to stress always being the same. Every runner should change speeds and cadence throughout every workout. This changes the stress and we know it leads to fewer injuries. What you say makes sense to me and of course you're the expert. I have also heard people make the argument for cross-training on the basis that it basically prepares you for the unusual movements (in the chosen sport) such that they don't turn into injuries. So for a distance runner, playing some basketball trains them for lateral movement, so they don't blow out a knee on the rare occasion they have to suddenly plant and cut sideways during a run. Is that thinking right or have I just been misunderstanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, Jake said: What you say makes sense to me and of course you're the expert. I have also heard people make the argument for cross-training on the basis that it basically prepares you for the unusual movements (in the chosen sport) such that they don't turn into injuries. So for a distance runner, playing some basketball trains them for lateral movement, so they don't blow out a knee on the rare occasion they have to suddenly plant and cut sideways during a run. Is that thinking right or have I just been misunderstanding? Yes, that is correct as well. I was just referring to the fact that so many of my patients who are runners, only run. They need to get in the miles to do marathons, ultras and such. So even if all the do is run, they should change the stresses as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 16 hours ago, fathom said: So what could it even be? Hyperextended elbow? Well, that's definitely what happened. What ligaments or tendons did he specifically tear/sprain? Who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 Ryan McGuffey confirming on twitter that it is just a scheduled off day for Robert and that he isn't headed to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: Did you see the articles on ESPN last week about how the AAU basketball kids have been so focused on playing basketball they haven't developed their bodies well and the injury rates among young players in the NBA is skyrocketing as a consequence? In basketball, I believe this. A lot of young players don't think much about strength or flexibility training. They just play ball. It's not like football where you're trying to move a human being or baseball where you're trying to muscle a ball with a bat. So, they don't think about it much. However, in other sports? There's so much of that. I don't buy that as an occurrence in baseball. Especially nowadays, there's so much attention to it. Especially when it comes to the throwing arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Just so someone keeps saying this... Both of Eloy's injuries are the kind of thing that should be limited by effective coaches working with these outfielders. Eh... I mean, Eloy's done that sh*t three times now and twice over the past couple of weeks. I'd be stunned if he wasn't reminded that the CF has priority. Regardless, it's such an f'ing elementary mistake. You shouldn't have to remind a player of that past high school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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