harkness99 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 (edited) The product on the field right now is depressing and incompetent. 2023? Was the first half of the season fools gold? Edited July 18, 2019 by harkness99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 They were playing way above their skis in the first half. The run differential is putrid and they have 1.5 ML pitchers. They also play in the worst division in baseball and are still bottom 3rd in most stats. This is a 72 or so win team. Which is actually pretty remarkable with this lineup and rotation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 There is still momentum, just a ton of bad players at the moment, especially on the pitching side. The good news is by mid April of next year our lineup should feature Moncada, Anderson, Jimenez, Abreu, McCann, Robert, & Madrigal and our rotation will have Giolito, Cease, & Kopech as foundational pieces. There is still plenty of work to do, but with our financial flexibility there is zero excuse for Hahn not to put a contender out there next year. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, harkness99 said: The product on the field right now is depressing and incompetent. 2023? Was the first half of the season fools gold? Over half the 25 man roster is AAAA filler 3 years into a rebuild. Giolito and McCann are looking more and more like fools gold as the season wears on. 2023 seems pessimistic but there is no way in hell that this Sox team is competing for anything in 2020. I see the rebuild timeline shaking out like this: 2020=last tank year, 2021=get back to 500, 2022=compete for a wild card 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: Over half the 25 man roster is AAAA filler 3 years into a rebuild. Giolito and McCann are looking more and more like fools gold as the season wears on. 2023 seems pessimistic but there is no way in hell that this Sox team is competing for anything in 2020. I see the rebuild timeline shaking out like this: 2020=last tank year, 2021=get back to 500, 2022=compete for a wild card Giolito is not looking like fool’s gold because he didn’t keep up his insane pace in his last two starts. McCann is still a great pickup. Also..... your timeline makes no sense. They aren’t going to tank next year. Another thing.... other than last year, if you are .500, you are competing for a wild card spot. I don’t know why you have that as some benchmark that differs from 2021. We also don’t know what the division looks like in 18 months. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 This is just another year of the Rick Hahn dynasty era. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneDog847 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 20 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Giolito is not looking like fool’s gold because he didn’t keep up his insane pace in his last two starts. McCann is still a great pickup. Also..... your timeline makes no sense. They aren’t going to tank next year. Another thing.... other than last year, if you are .500, you are competing for a wild card spot. I don’t know why you have that as some benchmark that differs from 2021. We also don’t know what the division looks like in 18 months. I disagree. 2020 will be another tanking year. It's not possible to replace 13-14 spots on a roster in one offseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 58 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Giolito is not looking like fool’s gold because he didn’t keep up his insane pace in his last two starts. McCann is still a great pickup. Also..... your timeline makes no sense. They aren’t going to tank next year. Another thing.... other than last year, if you are .500, you are competing for a wild card spot. I don’t know why you have that as some benchmark that differs from 2021. We also don’t know what the division looks like in 18 months. None of what he posts makes sense because he’s trolling. He repeats the same ridiculous comments in every thread simply to garner attention. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 When your best players are injured, when your GM's "big" acquisitions from over the winter taken as a whole are a major failure and when you basically have only two pitchers, the odds are this was going to happen sooner or later. Doesn't make it any easier to take though and even with the four A talent out there, there is no excuse for being so "baseball-stupid" with fundamentals on playing the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 hour ago, OneDog847 said: Over half the 25 man roster is AAAA filler 3 years into a rebuild. Giolito and McCann are looking more and more like fools gold as the season wears on. 2023 seems pessimistic but there is no way in hell that this Sox team is competing for anything in 2020. I see the rebuild timeline shaking out like this: 2020=last tank year, 2021=get back to 500, 2022=compete for a wild card God it was so nice when the the team overachieving because it prevented you from screaming this ridiculous narrative over and over again. But to act like they can’t put a winning product on the field next year is beyond ridiculous. Keep: Moncada (3B), Anderson (SS), Eloy (LF), Abreu (1B), McCann (C), Leury (UTL), Giolito (SP1), Cease (SP4), Kopech (SP4), Lopez (SP5/LR), Colome (CL), Bummer (SU), Fry (MR), Herrera (MR) Promote: Robert (CF), Madrigal (2B), Collins (BC) Acquire: RF, DH, IF, OF, SP2, SP5/LR, SU, MR That’s eight spots we’d have to fill worst case scenario (there are internal options at some of these spots), but only say five of any real significance (it’s hilarious you think every team has perfect 25 man rosters). There is zero reason Hahn can’t fill those five spots when he should have a good $70M to work with even after extending Abreu. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: When your best players are injured, when your GM's "big" acquisitions from over the winter taken as a whole are a major failure and when you basically have only two pitchers, the odds are this was going to happen sooner or later. Doesn't make it any easier to take though and even with the four A talent out there, there is no excuse for being so "baseball-stupid" with fundamentals on playing the game. Our GM didn’t make any “big” acquisitions over the winter, he simply added several placeholders to buy time for the prospects and traded for a guy to help in their pursuit of Machado. Argue it was a waste of money, but no one should have been expecting much out of these guys outside of maybe Colome & Herrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Our GM didn’t make any “big” acquisitions over the winter, he simply added several placeholders to buy time for the prospects and traded for a guy to help in their pursuit of Machado. Argue it was a waste of money, but no one should have been expecting much out of these guys outside of maybe Colome & Herrera. Some truth in the last part of your statement but since that was all he got by definition it was "big". And (as you'd expect) he talked a good game with these guys especially Alonso (LOL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 If we are giving Schneider and Thomas all the credit in the world for their string of success for nearly 15 years having the best track record in the business keeping guys off the DL (It was our biggest competitive advantage, arguably), then how can the exact opposite be just bad luck? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 59 minutes ago, OneDog847 said: I disagree. 2020 will be another tanking year. It's not possible to replace 13-14 spots on a roster in one offseason. Just to show how ridiculous this post is, here’s the offseason additions (excluding any minor league promotions) for a White Sox team that ended up being pretty good: Jermaine Dye (RF) A.J. Pieryznski (C) Tadahito Iguchi (2B) Scott Podsednik (LF) Chris Widger (C) Pablo Ozuna (UTL) Orlando Hernández (SP) Dustin Hermanson (RP) Luiz Vizcaíno (RP) Bobby Jenks (RP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: God it was so nice when the the team overachieving because it prevented you from screaming this ridiculous narrative over and over again. But to act like they can’t put a winning product on the field next year is beyond ridiculous. Keep: Moncada (3B), Anderson (SS), Eloy (LF), Abreu (1B), McCann (C), Leury (UTL), Giolito (SP1), Cease (SP4), Kopech (SP4), Lopez (SP5/LR), Colome (CL), Bummer (SU), Fry (MR), Herrera (MR) Promote: Robert (CF), Madrigal (2B), Collins (BC) Acquire: RF, DH, IF, OF, SP2, SP5/LR, SU, MR That’s eight spots we’d have to fill worst case scenario (there are internal options at some of these spots), but only say five of any real significance (it’s hilarious you think every team has perfect 25 man rosters). There is zero reason Hahn can’t fill those five spots when he should have a good $70M to work with even after extending Abreu. I think you trade McCann if you can get anything decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, harkness99 said: I think you trade McCann if you can get anything decent. If you can get a good package for him then by all means and go out and sign Grandal in the offseason. Just not optimistic the return will justify the risk we’d be taking at the catcher spot and it seems like the front office is interested in extending him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just to show how ridiculous this post is, here’s the offseason additions (excluding any minor league promotions) for a White Sox team that ended up being pretty good: Jermaine Dye (RF) A.J. Pieryznski (C) Tadahito Iguchi (2B) Scott Podsednik (LF) Chris Widger (C) Pablo Ozuna (UTL) Orlando Hernández (SP) Dustin Hermanson (RP) Luiz Vizcaíno (RP) Bobby Jenks (RP) So basically we have the equivalent of C Lee to trade in Abreu...and are going to have the most fortuitous series of acquisitions in 15 years. Okay. Well, if Minnesota can supplement their young core, why not? Although the collective fwar or bwar of that group probably isn’t far off our current yearly total in 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: If you can get a good package for him then by all means and go out and sign Grandal in the offseason. Just not optimistic the return will justify the risk we’d be taking at the catcher spot and it seems like the front office is interested in extending him. I like Mcann.. but I think his offense in the 1st half was a bit of a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: So basically we have the equivalent of C Lee to trade in Abreu...and are going to have the most fortuitous series of acquisitions in 15 years. Okay. Well, if Minnesota can supplement their young core, why not? Although the collective fwar or bwar of that group probably isn’t far off our current yearly total in 2019. The point is replacing a lot of roster spots is very much possible and like 90% of our core will be in place next year. We’ll need a couple big additions no doubt (RF & SP), but acting like a couple bench spots and the last guy in the bullpen are what will hold us back is absurd. The resources are there to fill our major holes, Hahn just has to execute a strong offseason for once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: If you can get a good package for him then by all means and go out and sign Grandal in the offseason. Just not optimistic the return will justify the risk we’d be taking at the catcher spot and it seems like the front office is interested in extending him. after last offseason I wouldn't put my trust there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 3 hours ago, OneDog847 said: Over half the 25 man roster is AAAA filler 3 years into a rebuild. Giolito and McCann are looking more and more like fools gold as the season wears on. 2023 seems pessimistic but there is no way in hell that this Sox team is competing for anything in 2020. I see the rebuild timeline shaking out like this: 2020=last tank year, 2021=get back to 500, 2022=compete for a wild card I wonder who is gonna be the hero in 2023. After all that losing ... Moncada, Eloy, Timmy, Abreu, Robert all these guy by then are going to be so used to losing you wonder what is suddenly going to spark 90, 95, 110 wins. It's going to be bizarre. 2023 like I said ... by then wow Moncada will have lost a lot of ballgames in a Sox uniform to suddenly become a dominant team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capital G Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 This year was always about the development of Anderson, Moncada, Gio, Lopez, Eloy, etc. With the exception of Lopez I am pretty happy. We also got a nice surprise in McCaan and Bummer. Cease has arrived and will learn from his MLB time this year going into '20. To think we were competing for anything this year was foolish. Our year will be 2021. in '20 we hopefully get another high pick. We cont to see development from the above plus likely get Kopech, Rodon, Robert, Madrigal, and possibly even Vaughn at some point. In 20/21 we should also start to open our wallets. If in '21 were not fighting for the central and/or WC that's when I will be worried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 9 hours ago, harkness99 said: The product on the field right now is depressing and incompetent. 2023? Was the first half of the season fools gold? Probably means Timmy is more important than I realized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: The point is replacing a lot of roster spots is very much possible and like 90% of our core will be in place next year. We’ll need a couple big additions no doubt (RF & SP), but acting like a couple bench spots and the last guy in the bullpen are what will hold us back is absurd. The resources are there to fill our major holes, Hahn just has to execute a strong offseason for once. If McCann and Giolito can sustain their level of play...and it’s not the last guy in the bullpen if we trade two of high leverage relievers, it’s almost the entire bullpen, and that’s not as easy as one would think (see Sox problems finding a RFer or DH). If they’re suddenly going to open their wallets with a series of at least 2-3 $80-140 million contracts, sure. But if they do crash and end end up in the high 60’s for win count, one gets the feeling that will be the excuse to wait yet another year before pulling the trigger in free agency...playing it conservatively again because there are so many question marks in Kopech, Cease, Lopez, etc. Meanwhile, we have to go from the second worst defense to the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, Capital G said: This year was always about the development of Anderson, Moncada, Gio, Lopez, Eloy, etc. With the exception of Lopez I am pretty happy. We also got a nice surprise in McCaan and Bummer. Cease has arrived and will learn from his MLB time this year going into '20. To think we were competing for anything this year was foolish. Our year will be 2021. in '20 we hopefully get another high pick. We cont to see development from the above plus likely get Kopech, Rodon, Robert, Madrigal, and possibly even Vaughn at some point. In 20/21 we should also start to open our wallets. If in '21 were not fighting for the central and/or WC that's when I will be worried. I think the first half did provide some real encouragement. But I don't see this franchise "opening up" its wallets. You may be right in the 2021 might be a breakthrough. I just wish I had more faith in this organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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