Steve Stone with a dose of reality for Sox fans

[ptatc]

31 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The lack of transparency is infuriating too. At least they're dropping hints now and being a little more transparent. 

Something tells me if they left a lot of Sox fans would be more relieved than sad. 

No professional sports team is transparent. Some may release some info but usually very little

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

No professional sports team is transparent. Some may release some info but usually very little

I don't think you understand my expectations.

If you say you're going to spend on elite talent, you better land one. 

If you're not going to do that, then send out a press release saying where you're going to spend that money instead, like in the analytics dept, hiring more player development guys, etc. 

[NWINFan]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

I think it is a little difficult to comprehend. This is the first year in a long time that there is actual hope on the horizon, Moncada, Jimenez, Anderson, giolito as well as the group in the minors, robert, madrigal. Yet many of the sox fans seem to be getting worse in their criticism and comments. The rhetoric out the now should be decreasing and incrasing. 

I for one am baffled as well. For once there is hope but certain fans seem to want to stomp harder.

This is what I am baffled about. Why does a losing team lash out at fans? And this is nothing new for the Sox.  Fan alienation is something the team has excelled at.

The rebuild looks okay, but somehow I get the feeling the team would be happy if it took longer for team to win. It's cheaper that way.

I know one thing. I don't feel like watching with Stone in the booth. Please tell me what this organization is trying to do with this nonsense.

[Lip Man 1]

49 minutes ago, ptatc said:

You are discussing the past failures and not looking at the current progress. Not trusting the FO has nothing to do with the current progress of the young players at the MLB level and the minors. These players are here, it looks like many will be good.

But the same people are in charge of the current progress and I submit many fans are concerned the clowns are going to ultimately screw it up again.

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

You can't group the two. They were trying to win 6.5 years ago. They finally went the route of rebuild- to the happiness of most of us- yet now we're upset they're improving, just not improving "enough."

You can’t group the two?!?

So because they were “trying to win” yet failed miserably, you can’t hold that against them?  It isn’t like they were signing top free agents to compete either.

The free agent strategy has not changed.  This is where the doubt is in my opinion.  If the next offseason is more of the same, people will be even more pissed after missing out on Machado last offseason.

Fans have every right to doubt management. The Sox last playoff appearance was 2008 and they have had two winning seasons since then.  That is pathetic.  And management hasn’t really changed either so it’s the same regime — Kenny and Hahn.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

You are discussing the past failures and not looking at the current progress. Not trusting the FO has nothing to do with the current progress of the young players at the MLB level and the minors. These players are here, it looks like many will be good.

You act like people can’t be excited about the young talent but be frustrated that the front office will blow it when it comes time to spend money to assist the youth.

And discussing past failures?  Last offseason was a pretty recent event.  And after all the big talk the Sox front office was quick to dish out to the fans as Balta stated, they failed miserably and made themselves look stupid.  So this upcoming offseason, why should fans expect a different outcome?  They will likely whiff on the top targets, like Cole and Ozuna, as usual and we will wind up with some second tier guys.

[soxfan49]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You can’t group the two?!?

So because they were “trying to win” yet failed miserably, you can’t hold that against them?  It isn’t like they were signing top free agents to compete either.

The free agent strategy has not changed.  This is where the doubt is in my opinion.  If the next offseason is more of the same, people will be even more pissed after missing out on Machado last offseason.

Fans have every right to doubt management. The Sox last playoff appearance was 2008 and they have had two winning seasons since then.  That is pathetic.  And management hasn’t really changed either so it’s the same regime — Kenny and Hahn.

You can't WANT a rebuild and then 2.5 years in b**** about losing is my point. If you knew Hahn and Williams were going to be in charge of this yet still wanted a rebuild, don't complain now. Their farm was arguably baseball's last year. Deal with it

Edited July 25, 2019 by soxfan49

[Moan4Yoan]

11 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

You can't WANT a rebuild and then 2.5 years in b**** about losing is my point. If you knew Hahn and Williams were going to be in charge of this yet still wanted a rebuild, don't complain now. Their farm was arguably baseball's last year. Deal with it

This front office was losing before the rebuild so what does it matter?  My main point is that some fans don’t have any faith that our front office will sign TOP TALENT free agents to fill in the team’s holes, such as a top FA starter like Cole or a top FA corner outfielder like Ozuna, due to their embarrassing showing last offseason.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[soxfan49]

38 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This front office was losing before the rebuild so what does it matter?  My main point is that some fans don’t have any faith that our front office will sign TOP TALENT free agents to fill in the team’s holes, such as a top FA starter like Cole or a top FA corner outfielder like Ozuna, due to their embarrassing showing last offseason.

Then why did so many ask for a rebuild anyway?

[Moan4Yoan]

Just now, soxfan49 said:

Then why did so many ask for a rebuild anyway?

The first sentence of my last post answers that question.  Also, keep in mind that fans don’t get to fire their front office.

[fathom]

24 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Then why did so many ask for a rebuild anyway?

I'm going to say probably 95% of us on here didn't want the Hahn/KW front office to be the ones to lead the rebuild.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

Then why did so many ask for a rebuild anyway?

Because even though there's no guarantee it will work, it's such a powerful technique that it's at least possible it could work even if the people running it aren't that skilled. And the counterpoint - signing moderate priced free agents - leaves the team rebuilding in a couple years anyway after a few more low-70s win years. 

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't think you understand my expectations.

If you say you're going to spend on elite talent, you better land one. 

If you're not going to do that, then send out a press release saying where you're going to spend that money instead, like in the analytics dept, hiring more player development guys, etc. 

Why would they broadcast their plans to the agents and competition?

[ptatc]

57 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

The first sentence of my last post answers that question.  Also, keep in mind that fans don’t get to fire their front office.

 

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

You act like people can’t be excited about the young talent but be frustrated that the front office will blow it when it comes time to spend money to assist the youth.

And discussing past failures?  Last offseason was a pretty recent event.  And after all the big talk the Sox front office was quick to dish out to the fans as Balta stated, they failed miserably and made themselves look stupid.  So this upcoming offseason, why should fans expect a different outcome?  They will likely whiff on the top targets, like Cole and Ozuna, as usual and we will wind up with some second tier guys.

You can be excited about and not trust what rothe FO will do in the off season, in the off season. Why complain now when the off season isn't happening.  Enjoy the good players and progress now, complain when they dont do what you want them to do in the off season.

The preemptive b****ing about the future is pointless and makes many on here just seem to bear a grudge and not be able to enjoy anything to do with the team.

Edited July 25, 2019 by ptatc

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

 

You can be excited about and not trust what rothe FO will do in the off season, in the off season. Why complain now when the off season isn't happening.  Enjoy the good players and progress now, complain when they dont do what you want them to do in the off season.

The preemptive b****ing about the future is pointless and makes many on here just seem to bear a grudge and not be able to enjoy anything to do with the team.

And when they lose 2/3 to the Marlins?

[Moan4Yoan]

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

 

You can be excited about and not trust what rothe FO will do in the off season, in the off season. Why complain now when the off season isn't happening.  Enjoy the good players and progress now, complain. When they dont do what you want them to do in the off season.

The preemptive birthing about the future is pointless and makes many on here just seem to bear a grudge and not be able to enjoy anything to do with the team.

They already blew last offseason, in the majority of players that they acquired and the one that they wanted but whiffed on.  I believe you had even stated before the end of last offseason that you would be upset at the front office if they failed to land a top free agent.

Meanwhile, you have Stone saying stupid things to the fans and sounding like he is speaking for management by seemingly downplaying long-term contracts for free agents.

15 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Why would they broadcast their plans to the agents and competition?

They actually did this all last offseason.  Everyone knew that the Sox were “all in” on Machado...  until the very last second when the Padres stole him away.  Where were you?

Edited July 25, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Moan4Yoan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

And when they lose 2/3 to the Marlins?

You beat me to it.  ?

[Richie]

People are going to project their feelings all over this. So, I can't read anything into the reactions. You see these words through the lens you choose to. 

I think Stone is simply referring to the knee-jerk reactionary behavior of every fan-base. We start to show signs of growth and everyone is excited for the future. We come out looking bad in the 2nd half and suddenly much of the same fan-base sounds like they're about to hang themselves. 

You can't just keep doing 180's with every little turn of the tide. There has to be some perspective towards the larger picture and nothing has really changed in that regard. We're in the same spot we were before the break towards 2020 and beyond. This is year #3 of a complete strip down, overhaul and rebuild. Expecting more than what we've gotten this year is rather silly. If this is who we are next year, sure... I'll join the pitchfork carrying crew. But until then... we have to take our lumps and watch some growing pains. It's apart of it. 

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Richie

[Richie]

7 hours ago, ptatc said:

But why now when there is finally some good players and at least the possibility of good seasons to come. People should be getting more positive not more pessimistic. 

I think it's kind of like that Morgan Freeman dialogue in Shawkshank Redemption. "The worst thing you can give a man in here is hope. Hope will drive a man crazy."

In recent years, it was easy to concede to the rebuild. We were so glaringly bad at the major league level, it wasn't worth stomping around about. Now, you see some pieces emerging. You hang around .500... You see the hope shining through. Then, every week when we trot out Santana, Banuelos, Covey, Detwiler... or whoever the hell it's been at that given time. You're forced to recognize (in the midst of your optimism) that you're still a ways away from truly contending. 

When the entire team is one glaring baseball black hole. What are you going to do besides throw your arms up in the air and accept that this is the process we've entered into? Now, when some of that dead space is being filled with promise and you can better pinpoint the areas that are lagging behind. It stirs up some contempt. 

 

[NWINFan]

Sports teams and their fans argue and fight all the time. It's a love-hate relationship. But the White Sox are very bad at it, and the organization causes lasting rifts and true alienation. Its shows at the gate.

During the Nineties, it was the worst. The Tribune had its inane attendance stories that were nothing but excuses to rip fans. The Score constantly ripped Sox fans. Yelled at them, insulted them, mocked them, hung up on them. All of this help create an atmosphere of bitterness and anger. It was an awful time to be a Sox fan as the team watched all of this and did nothing.

A few years ago I went to a book signing event. McFarland Publishing put out a book on old Comiskey as part of a series of books on razed stadiums. All proceeds of the book went to charity. Anyway Ron Kittle and Nancy Faust were there. Kittle told some great stories. Faust entertained on the organ. It was a great time. The first thing when I got home I ordered two game tickets. The event made me want to go the park and do it soon.  I don't know if anyone from the Sox organization knew of the event, but someone from the team should have seen it. Something positive like this helps create enthusiasm for fans.

Stone's tweet was condescending and not necessary. It accomplishes nothing except for creating bad feelings. It's okay to call down fans on somethings. Just do it right. Not with this nonsense.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Sports teams and their fans argue and fight all the time. It's a love-hate relationship. But the White Sox are very bad at it, and the organization causes lasting rifts and true alienation. Its shows at the gate.

During the Nineties, it was the worst. The Tribune had its inane attendance stories that were nothing but excuses to rip fans. The Score constantly ripped Sox fans. Yelled at them, insulted them, mocked them, hung up on them. All of this help create an atmosphere of bitterness and anger. It was an awful time to be a Sox fan as the team watched all of this and did nothing.

A few years ago I went to a book signing event. McFarland Publishing put out a book on old Comiskey as part of a series of books on razed stadiums. All proceeds of the book went to charity. Anyway Ron Kittle and Nancy Faust were there. Kittle told some great stories. Faust entertained on the organ. It was a great time. The first thing when I got home I ordered two game tickets. The event made me want to go the park and do it soon.  I don't know if anyone from the Sox organization knew of the event, but someone from the team should have seen it. Something positive like this helps create enthusiasm for fans.

Stone's tweet was condescending and not necessary. It accomplishes nothing except for creating bad feelings. It's okay to call down fans on somethings. Just do it right. Not with this nonsense.

You can actually make a case for the fact that showing a White Sox Charities documentary or watching some of our young guys interacting with young kids out in the community or at Bulls/Sox camp would be much better advertising for the team (and attractive to younger fans) than these last two Marlins' games with almost nothing to cheer for in terms of game action.

Edited July 25, 2019 by caulfield12

[Thad Bosley]

3 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Sports teams and their fans argue and fight all the time. It's a love-hate relationship. But the White Sox are very bad at it, and the organization causes lasting rifts and true alienation. Its shows at the gate.

During the Nineties, it was the worst. The Tribune had its inane attendance stories that were nothing but excuses to rip fans. The Score constantly ripped Sox fans. Yelled at them, insulted them, mocked them, hung up on them. All of this help create an atmosphere of bitterness and anger. It was an awful time to be a Sox fan as the team watched all of this and did nothing.

A few years ago I went to a book signing event. McFarland Publishing put out a book on old Comiskey as part of a series of books on razed stadiums. All proceeds of the book went to charity. Anyway Ron Kittle and Nancy Faust were there. Kittle told some great stories. Faust entertained on the organ. It was a great time. The first thing when I got home I ordered two game tickets. The event made me want to go the park and do it soon.  I don't know if anyone from the Sox organization knew of the event, but someone from the team should have seen it. Something positive like this helps create enthusiasm for fans.

Stone's tweet was condescending and not necessary. It accomplishes nothing except for creating bad feelings. It's okay to call down fans on somethings. Just do it right. Not with this nonsense.

It was the worst when it should have been the best.  And the reason it was the worst was because of the atrocity Reinsdorf built known as the "New Comiskey Park".  That original version of the new ballpark was an abject disaster, and was only amplified a year later and for years to come when ballparks like Camden Yards and the like were built.  Seeing what we got and what the fan bases of all of the other teams got with their beautiful retro builts left a horrible taste in the mouth of our fan base, and rightfully so.  

So at a time when a talented, young team that had been developed during the late '80s should have been celebrated and supported by the fan base, there was this incredible black cloud that hovered over the organization with all of the constantly negative buzz perpetrated by the local newspapers and on sports radio about the deficient ballpark and its resulting declining attendance figures.

And that's even before discussion about Reinsdorf shutting down the '94 season with his hard-line positions on the MLB labor front back then - the ultimate punch in the gut to the fans by this owner.  What a disaster that was.   

Edited July 25, 2019 by Fan O'Faust

[pcq]

3 minutes ago, Fan O'Faust said:

It was the worst when it should have been the best.  And the reason it was the worst was because of the atrocity Reinsdorf built known as the "New Comiskey Park".  That original version of the new ballpark was an abject disaster, and was only amplified a year later and for years to come when ballparks like Camden Yards and the like were built. 

So at a time when a talented, young team that had been developed during the late '80s should have been celebrated and supported by the fan base, there was this incredible black cloud that hovered over the organization with all of the constantly negative buzz perpetrated by the local newspapers and on sports radio about the deficient ballpark and its resulting declining attendance figures.

And that's even before discussion about Reinsdorf shutting down the '94 season with his hard-line positions on the MLB labor front back then - the ultimate punch in the gut to the fans by this owner.  What a disaster that was.   

You must be tired of complaining by now. You could be taking flute lessons or bird watching.

[Thad Bosley]

51 minutes ago, pcq said:

You must be tired of complaining by now. You could be taking flute lessons or bird watching.

Not complaining about anything, smartass.  Just picking up on a point a more knowledgeable poster than yourself made about the experience of the fan base back in the '90s and providing some additional historical perspective to it.  Ironically, it's too bad you were in too much of a hurry to complain yourself to actually pick up on that. 

As for the flute lessons and bird watching comment (neither of which has to do with White Sox baseball so not quite sure why you took the time to mention it), seems like you should cling onto your day job as tightly as you can and not put all of your eggs into the basket of being Mr. Funny Guy.  No future there for you.  

[soxfan49]

15 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

And when they lose 2/3 to the Marlins?

You can complain if you choose to forget that their .800+ OPS SS and 30+ HR LF are out. You can complain if you forget that Lopez has now been great in 3 consecutive starts. You can complain if you legitimately thought they'd be contending for a playoff spot in 2019. Otherwise, be quiet.

Edited July 25, 2019 by soxfan49