Steve Stone with a dose of reality for Sox fans

[NWINFan]

1 hour ago, Fan O'Faust said:

 

And that's even before discussion about Reinsdorf shutting down the '94 season with his hard-line positions on the MLB labor front back then - the ultimate punch in the gut to the fans by this owner.  What a disaster that was.   

It was a disaster, and I don't think the White Sox or many others realize what damage the 1994 strike did to the team. I think many people in MLB merely assumed fans would return after the strike. That didn't happen, and I think the Sox were hurt much more than other teams.

In January 1995, the White Sox took out an ad in the Trib and Sun-Times, asking for fans to write them concerning the strike. The ad stated fans could say anything, even if they wanted to tell the team "to go to blazes." I wrote and received a polite reply.  It would have been interesting to see whatever effect the letters had.

I sent a letter through the regular mail to Stone. I did all I could to be polite, even saying my letter was for "one gentleman to another." Of course, I have no idea what he thought of it. I did reference the bad old days of the 1990s.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

It was a disaster, and I don't think the White Sox or many others realize what damage the 1994 strike did to the team. I think many people in MLB merely assumed fans would return after the strike. That didn't happen, and I think the Sox were hurt much more than other teams.

In January 1995, the White Sox took out an ad in the Trib and Sun-Times, asking for fans to write them concerning the strike. The ad stated fans could say anything, even if they wanted to tell the team "to go to blazes." I wrote and received a polite reply.  It would have been interesting to see whatever effect the letters had.

I sent a letter through the regular mail to Stone. I did all I could to be polite, even saying my letter was for "one gentleman to another." Of course, I have no idea what he thought of it. I did reference the bad old days of the 1990s.

The strike wiped out a probable Sox pennant and the greatest season of Frank's career.  It was devastating for the White Sox. Frank was slashing an absurd .353.487.729 for a 1217 OPS and a OPS+ of 212.  He was over twice as good as the average hitter that year and his greedy owner, among other things, wiped out 1/3 of his season.

I've long let go of any anger regarding the strike but just now rehashing it I got a bit angry.

[ptatc]

21 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

And when they lose 2/3 to the Marlins?

complain about how poorly a rebuilding team with 2 if their best hitters are hurt then. not about the awful future with no hope. 

[pcq]

6 hours ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Not complaining about anything, smartass.  Just picking up on a point a more knowledgeable poster than yourself made about the experience of the fan base back in the '90s and providing some additional historical perspective to it.  Ironically, it's too bad you were in too much of a hurry to complain yourself to actually pick up on that. 

As for the flute lessons and bird watching comment (neither of which has to do with White Sox baseball so not quite sure why you took the time to mention it), seems like you should cling onto your day job as tightly as you can and not put all of your eggs into the basket of being Mr. Funny Guy.  No future there for you.  

If you hate JR so much you can vote with your feet. It's a tired old saw. 

[Thad Bosley]

1 minute ago, pcq said:

If you hate JR so much you can vote with your feet. It's a tired old saw. 

Again, stay on topic, if you can.  The topic was the Sox fans’ experience in the ‘90s, which was impacted adversely by both the original construct of the ballpark when it was first built, and what happened in ‘94 with the strike and Reinsdorf’s involvement therein.  Both are very legitimate points to make when talking about the White Sox during the ‘90s.   

If you can’t handle that discussion, then mind your own business, stay out of it, let those who want to discuss it discuss it, and keep your snarky and unwelcome comments to yourself.   

[pcq]

1 minute ago, Fan O'Faust said:

Again, stay on topic, if you can.  The topic was the Sox fans’ experience in the ‘90s, which was impacted adversely by both the original construct of the ballpark when it was first built, and what happened in ‘94 with the strike and Reinsdorf’s involvement therein.  Both are very legitimate points to make when talking about the White Sox during the ‘90s.   

If you can’t handle that discussion, then mind your own business, stay out of it, let those who want to discuss it discuss it, and keep your snarky and unwelcome comments to yourself.   

OK Nancy. You seem a little sensitive.

[Thad Bosley]

Just now, pcq said:

OK Nancy. You seem a little sensitive.

How about you talk White Sox baseball, or just keep your yap shut.  

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Can we all just hug it out? We're supposed to all be fans of the same team FFS

[Lip Man 1]

15 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Can we all just hug it out? We're supposed to all be fans of the same team FFS

Losing year after year creates very short tempers by those who still care about the team. Understandable.

[poppysox]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

You can actually make a case for the fact that showing a White Sox Charities documentary or watching some of our young guys interacting with young kids out in the community or at Bulls/Sox camp would be much better advertising for the team (and attractive to younger fans) than these last two Marlins' games with almost nothing to cheer for in terms of game action.

Management needs to remember that baseball is required to be entertaining.  Bill Veeck was a master at entertaining the fan even when the team was bad.  Many games have had no entertainment value.  Not smart.

[WBWSF]

I went to the game last night. It was really a nice night and a decent crowd of 22,000. The Christmas In July promotion was nice. The free T-shirt was wonderful. Hearing the Christmas music before the game and in between innings was nice. They've had this promotion before and I hope they continue to have it in the future. The promotion was better than the game .

[GermanSoxFan]

9 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Losing year after year creates very short tempers by those who still care about the team. Understandable.

lol like people haven‘t b****ed about the Sox and their ownership here or on WSI when they were legit contenders.

 

Some people love to complain. Using the team‘S futility as an excuse to be whiny 24/7 is pretty rich though. Good one.

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, GermanSoxFan said:

lol like people haven‘t b****ed about the Sox and their ownership here or on WSI when they were legit contenders.

 

You can remember back that far?

[caulfield12]

By Pythagorean, we should be 40-60 instead of 45-55.

That would give us another #4 pick in the first round, instead of 7-10.

 

When all is said and done, we might be the difference between the Twins and Indians.

2-5 against the Twins, outscored 53-21.  12 games remaining.

7-5 against the Indians (J.Ramirez is white hot suddenly), outscored them 50-40.  7 games remaining.

 

By runs scored and runs allowed, the third worst team in baseball, -103, 3 ahead of the Mariners (-20 games below .500) and Marlins (-24).

We can summarize the progress as a #3 starter in Giolito and #4 in Lopez vs. just a 2/3 last year in Lopez.  If you want to call it even now with Rodon and Kopech out, up to you.  Moncada, Robert, Madrigal and Vaughn and “unprecedented financial flexibility” remain the main indicators of hope. 

[kitekrazy]

20 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Losing year after year creates very short tempers by those who still care about the team. Understandable.

The challenge is to not take it out on fellow members and it's worse this year on Sox Talk,

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

The challenge is to not take it out on fellow members and it's worse this year on Sox Talk,

Easier said than done.

Just a thought on the whole idea of Stone's comments and I personally know of a few other fans who have actually taken the time to write to him over this.

A friend who is a long time Sox fan had the best advice I've heard regarding this organization / front office regardless of the area... drafts, free agent signings, trades, injuries.

You can say it is the most pessimistic view of the situation but as he told me, it is what they deserve. They simply have not earned the benefit of the doubt because of their history and their actions in his opinion. 

His "philosophy" (for wont of a better word) is, "Don't trust them and always assume the worst until shown otherwise."

[Moan4Yoan]

Once again, amazing timing for Steve Stone to be snarky to the fans.  What a boner.

[NWINFan]

On 7/25/2019 at 10:35 PM, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Can we all just hug it out? We're supposed to all be fans of the same team FFS

That's not a bad suggestion. A lot of anger here. Maybe we should take it on Stone.

The thread's title suggest Sox fans need a dose of reality. I think the White Sox organization needs a dose of reality. Even the biggest defenders of the rebuild will be angry if things keep going like they are now. Now, go out and sign someone this offseason.

[Lip Man 1]

59 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

That's not a bad suggestion. A lot of anger here. Maybe we should take it on Stone.

The thread's title suggest Sox fans need a dose of reality. I think the White Sox organization needs a dose of reality. Even the biggest defenders of the rebuild will be angry if things keep going like they are now. Now, go out and sign someone this offseason.

I think you're correct on the part about the "defenders." I've read a lot of posts and even read some mainstream newspaper stories (Rick Morrissey had one) talking about the absolute need for the Sox to get it right this off season or they are going to lose the fan base regarding the rebuild.

And I think that would be fair, if after three years going into number four, they can't keep the key pieces healthy and keep trotting out guys like Covey, Tilson, Engle, Sanchez and their ilk the fan base is going to be in open revolt even the most patient of them.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I think you're correct on the part about the "defenders." I've read a lot of posts and even read some mainstream newspaper stories (Rick Morrissey had one) talking about the absolute need for the Sox to get it right this off season or they are going to lose the fan base regarding the rebuild.

And I think that would be fair, if after three years going into number four, they can't keep the key pieces healthy and keep trotting out guys like Covey, Tilson, Engle, Sanchez and their ilk the fan base is going to be in open revolt even the most patient of them.

It’s not like we are getting beaten out by the Red Sox, Yankees, Astros or Dodgers.

That would be more understandable.

It’s even smaller market teams like the Twins, Indians...for example, the Giants have won 18 of their last 22 and are playing themselves right into the wild card hunt.   Even teams who “retool on the fly” are giving their fans something to be excited about...just hard to be excited about baseball now when it’s starting to seem 2020 will be yet another lost season.

On paper, the Giants are not more talented than the White Sox, but they have a Hall of Fame manager.

[NWINFan]

6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I think you're correct on the part about the "defenders." I've read a lot of posts and even read some mainstream newspaper stories (Rick Morrissey had one) talking about the absolute need for the Sox to get it right this off season or they are going to lose the fan base regarding the rebuild.

And I think that would be fair, if after three years going into number four, they can't keep the key pieces healthy and keep trotting out guys like Covey, Tilson, Engle, Sanchez and their ilk the fan base is going to be in open revolt even the most patient of them.

Regarding the offseason: I don't advocate the team merely throwing money at the problem. We all know some expensive signings don't work out. At the very least, I'd like to see several moves that just improve the team. It would help in the rebuild process if the Sox can get under 90 losses. It would also help if the club is more competitive on the field even in defeat.

Some of the rebuild aspects are working, but the team still needs a veteran presence. Most importantly, fans need to feel the franchise truly wants to win in a significant way.

[Lip Man 1]

This is very interesting. About 45 minutes ago Stone had a very different type-tweet saying, "Sox fans have every right to be frustrated. The negatives are there front and center everyday. Feel free to chose your own way to express your justified anger and dissatisfaction."

Different tone isn't it?

Maybe the blowback made him rethink some of the things he was saying?

He said if the comments to him are constructive he'll answer and he blocks profane and hostile comments.

Then in a second tweet he specifically said the Sox need guys who can catch the ball, they need a left handed hitting difference maker and starting pitching.

When he said "defense" I immediately thought of Hahn's comments this off season about improved fundamentals, defense being one of them. To bad nothing has changed in that regard.

Overall though it was nice to read Steve being a little more understanding towards Sox fans.

[Moan4Yoan]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

This is very interesting. About 45 minutes ago Stone had a very different type-tweet saying, "Sox fans have every right to be frustrated. The negatives are there front and center everyday. Feel free to chose your own way to express your justified anger and dissatisfaction."

Different tone isn't it?

Maybe the blowback made him rethink some of the things he was saying?

He said if the comments to him are constructive he'll answer and he blocks profane and hostile comments.

Then in a second tweet he specifically said the Sox need guys who can catch the ball, they need a left handed hitting difference maker and starting pitching.

When he said "defense" I immediately thought of Hahn's comments this off season about improved fundamentals, defense being one of them. To bad nothing has changed in that regard.

Overall though it was nice to read Steve being a little more understanding towards Sox fans.

Stone probably realized he went overboard on his initial shots at the fans, especially with how putridly the Sox proceeded to play after his comments.

Stone is right about needing a lefty power bat but they can really only do this at catcher (Grandal), RF, And 1B/DH.  I believe all the free agent RF options are right-handed bats though (Ozuna, Puig, Castellanos.  And they also need to sign two starting pitchers.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[NWINFan]

I am glad to see Stone take a different tact. I truly didn't understand the nature of his "house" tweet because I didn't see how it could have accomplished anything. And I think if he wants a civilized dialogue with fans, that is a good thing. He must remember that fans want to be reassured that the franchise is serious about building a winner. Any perception that the rebuild is a salary dump and not a rebuild does great harm to the team's credibility.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

This is very interesting. About 45 minutes ago Stone had a very different type-tweet saying, "Sox fans have every right to be frustrated. The negatives are there front and center everyday. Feel free to chose your own way to express your justified anger and dissatisfaction."

Different tone isn't it?

Awesome. I love that tweet. Negatives are there EVERYDAY. Way to go, Stoney. This organization is one of the worst in professional sports, at least has one of the worst owners. That's not hyperbole. The WS saves Jerry's legacy and indeed it was a glorious season. If that's all we should expect then I'm wrong in my assertion. If one title per owner is indeed sufficient, my bad.

I happen to believe it was all there on a platter for the Sox when they got put in this division many years ago. No rational explanation to not dominate that division of low payroll teams year in and out. Only a horrible owner could pull off being this bad in this division throughout his tenure. this team is not a small market team evidenced by the Forbes figures of the Sox worth. Shameful except for the glorious title season.

Edited July 27, 2019 by greg775