Jump to content

Gerrit Cole - The Rebuild’s Fulcrum


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, EvilJester99 said:

Going to get another Nova type guy again. 

No offense, but this is straight garbage.  By all means question whether they’ll add a legit star in free agency, but there are multiple tiers of free agents better than Ivan fucking Nova.  If that’s what you truly believe, then you might as well turn in your fan card in right now as the rebuild would be completely doomed.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sadly don’t think they’ll sign a big fish... ever. My hopes this past offseason were forever crushed.

Missing Harper AND Machado In a year they had planned for repeatedly... I’ll never recover from that kick in the balls.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

No offense, but this is straight garbage.  By all means question whether they’ll add a legit star in free agency, but there are multiple tiers of free agents better than Ivan fucking Nova.  If that’s what you truly believe, then you might as well turn in your fan card in right now as the rebuild would be completely doomed.

 What have they done to show otherwise of late?? I've seen a parade of his ilk of pitchers come through. I have no hope of them spending big on a FA pitcher. Given I hope I am wrong about it. I want the Sox to be good again. 

Edited by EvilJester99
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't know Cole was a Boras guy. Oh this will be fun. I can see it now...the Sox will have 'a seat at the table', and then Boras waits until April (torturing us all for 4-5 long off-season months) to sign with a team out of nowhere.... I'll go with the Padres again. And for the extra kick to the junk, he'll cite the bright future of playing with Tatis Jr. and Machado for the next 7 years.

Hopefully they have a plan, and it's a bit more solid than last winter's. Because signing Machado with a cap of $250 mil guaranteed dollars was never going to happen.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, EloyJenkins said:

This is going to be an unpopular opinion...but I think the Sox should trade Jimenez and prospect for a controllable #1 or #2 from another team. With Robert coming up and it much easier to buy a FA right or left fielder....I think that is their best chance to get elite talent. I know losing Jimenez would be a blow...but he simply can't survive in the outfield long term and Vaughn is the 1st baseman for the next 10 seasons. Signing Cole is the right idea...but it just won't happen and Hahn needs to have another creative idea.

I wouldn't trade Eloy. There's something special about him, and I think a chemistry is already developing with our guys that they shouldn't break up.

If it comes down to trading prospects for a controllable #1 or #2, how about a deal like Vaughn+ ? I'm not sure what pitchers would be available that I'd give Vaughn up for, though. Syndergaard has struggled too much this season for me to give up a big piece like Vaughn (or Eloy).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

59 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I didn't know Cole was a Boras guy. Oh this will be fun. I can see it now...the Sox will have 'a seat at the table', and then Boras waits until April (torturing us all for 4-5 long off-season months) to sign with a team out of nowhere.... I'll go with the Padres again. And for the extra kick to the junk, he'll cite the bright future of playing with Tatis Jr. and Machado for the next 7 years.

Hopefully they have a plan, and it's a bit more solid than last winter's. Because signing Machado with a cap of $250 mil guaranteed dollars was never going to happen.

Boras clients are off the table for me.  Anyone who wants to be represented by such a total jerk isn't much of a team guy.  The Boris client is all about the money and himself IMO.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Boras clients are off the table for me.  Anyone who wants to be represented by such a total jerk isn't much of a team guy.  The Boris client is all about the money and himself IMO.  

Every free agent is about the money.  Where have you been?

If you are looking for a job, do you intentionally accept the lowest offer or look for the best one?

Edited by Moan4Yoan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Sarava said:

I didn't know Cole was a Boras guy. Oh this will be fun. I can see it now...the Sox will have 'a seat at the table', and then Boras waits until April (torturing us all for 4-5 long off-season months) to sign with a team out of nowhere.... I'll go with the Padres again. And for the extra kick to the junk, he'll cite the bright future of playing with Tatis Jr. and Machado for the next 7 years.

Hopefully they have a plan, and it's a bit more solid than last winter's. Because signing Machado with a cap of $250 mil guaranteed dollars was never going to happen.

The Padres have plenty of young highly-touted pitchers (Morejon and Baez, just brought up yesterday, are both Top 100), they just need seasoning like Kopech and Cease.   And Mackenzie Gore is their centerpiece franchise pitcher to go along with Paddack and he's at least another half season away.

That said, he loves Southern California.  But I honestly don't see how the numbers work there with Wil Myers taking up a big chunk of salary and currently just a bench player.

They'll definitely pursue him as their rotation anchor, but it would be more shocking than reeling in Machado.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Every free agent is about the money.  Where have you been?

If you are looking for a job, do you intentionally accept the lowest offer or look for the best one?

Do you think McCann was about the money in last years FA class.  For most guys it's just the process required in today baseball.  Lots of guys sign quickly with first team that shows genuine interest.  Boras clients take forever because they want every last nickel.  This all about the money crap is not good for baseball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Do you think McCann was about the money in last years FA class.  For most guys it's just the process required in today baseball.  Lots of guys sign quickly with first team that shows genuine interest.  Boras clients take forever because they want every last nickel.  This all about the money crap is not good for baseball.

It’s all about leverage, or just simple supply/demand.  McCann had none.

Playing opportunity was just as valuable as the contract dollars, especially because he was already familiar with all the pitchers in the division.

As far as the money crap, if the Yankees were winning every year, that would be one thing.  

As long as teams like Oakland can afford a Cespedes or the Padres Machado and Hosmer...then there’s still a reasonable balance because every team in MLB has enough incoming revenue from media/broadcasting to afford one of those guys if they really wanted to, even the Marlins and Rays.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, EvilJester99 said:

 What have they done to show otherwise of late?? I've seen a parade of his ilk of pitchers come through. I have no hope of them spending big on a FA pitcher. Given I hope I am wrong about it. I want the Sox to be good again. 

If you think the Sox brought on Nova to do anything other than be healthy, idk what to tell you

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

The Padres have plenty of young highly-touted pitchers (Morejon and Baez, just brought up yesterday, are both Top 100), they just need seasoning like Kopech and Cease.   And Mackenzie Gore is their centerpiece franchise pitcher to go along with Paddack and he's at least another half season away.

That said, he loves Southern California.  But I honestly don't see how the numbers work there with Wil Myers taking up a big chunk of salary and currently just a bench player.

They'll definitely pursue him as their rotation anchor, but it would be more shocking than reeling in Machado.

Can we not talk about how much payroll the Padres might have available ever again?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Hal Steinbrenner operates much differently than his father.  While by default they should probably be the favorite, they are far from a sure thing.  Their financial situation isn’t as rosy as it might seem if they continue to operate like they have in recent years.

It is because he has operated so differently in the past 3 seasons that he has allowed the team to get players they like this offseason. They got under the luxury tax and stayed disciplined.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, fathom said:

Can we not talk about how much payroll the Padres might have available ever again?

The only conclusion is the White Sox really didn’t want Machado all that badly.

It doesn’t make sense, because of the courting of Alonso and Jay, but then why would they have telegraphed the move of Moncada to third (Machado’s best position)...?

it was all to light a fire under Yoan and Timmy?

Because if you want to make it clear to Machado that he’s wanted...you don’t move one of the best young players in the game to his natural position.  It’s not like he was wedded to playing SS either, as he made it abundantly clear he was willing to move back to 3B.   

Ironically, the player they most needed was Harper (from a positional standpoint), and they barely paid lip service to that possibility after the initial meetings.

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The only conclusion is the White Sox really didn’t want Machado all that badly.

It doesn’t make sense, because of the courting of Alonso and Jay, but then why would they have telegraphed the move of Moncada to third (Machado’s best position)...?

it was all to light a fire under Yoan and Timmy?

Because if you want to make it clear to Machado that he’s wanted...you don’t move one of the best young players in the game to his natural position.  It’s not like he was wedded to playing SS either, as he made it abundantly clear he was willing to move back to 3B.   

Ironically, the player they most needed was Harper (from a positional standpoint), and they barely paid lip service to that possibility after the initial meetings.

I really do not expect the White Sox to be serious suitors for Cole. I'd look for the Sox to be active with the second/third tier of available FA starting pitchers. A guy like Odorizzi might make sense and would cost a ton less? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I really do not expect the White Sox to be serious suitors for Cole. I'd look for the Sox to be active with the second/third tier of available FA starting pitchers. A guy like Odorizzi might make sense and would cost a ton less? 

http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins-news/minnesota-twins/the-twins-should-extend-odorizzi-not-gibson-r7408

This is the same reason why the Twins are probably going to prioritize signing him for a 3-4 year extension, letting Kyle Gibson walk.

They probably can't afford to hold onto both those guys...because they also need to hold onto some of their hitters (free agents) and always be mindful about trying to extend their young core simultaneously.

In many ways, the Indians and Twins are in similiar positions, although Minnesota is still on the upswing and Cleveland the downswing of their runs.  A month ago, it seemed the Indians would be trading away one of their pitchers, probably Bauer.

Right now, it's a wide open race again, with the Twins battling back against Oakland to keep the once 12 game lead from falling all the way to 2 games.

 

I would agree the best way for the White Sox to quickly compete in the Central is signing pitchers away from those other teams...although getting excited about the Gibson's and Lance Lynn's (he has actually had a nice bounceback year in Texas of all places) isn't going to fill in many season ticket order forms.

Edited by caulfield12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Next offseason, we will all get excited once again about the chance at signing a big name like Gerrit Cole and Hahn will wind up signing a second tier “value guy” like Alex Wood.

Alex Wood would be a fantastic signing as the 2nd of two SP acquisitions.  The other needs to be a TOR starter if the Sox are serious about getting good.  

I think 6/$180M would get it done for Cole.  I've previously said 6/$168M.  Somewhere in that realm.  At some point the money needs to be spent.  The Sox have so little committed moving forward that Cole at $30M AAV doesn't even get them close to a league average payroll.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Alex Wood would be a fantastic signing as the 2nd of two SP acquisitions.  The other needs to be a TOR starter if the Sox are serious about getting good.  

I think 6/$180M would get it done for Cole.  I've previously said 6/$168M.  Somewhere in that realm.  At some point the money needs to be spent.  The Sox have so little committed moving forward that Cole at $30M AAV doesn't even get them close to a league average payroll.  

I'd be happy with Alex Wood but what if he returns from his back injury and is terrible? He has a big question mark here having missed almost 2/3rds of the year by the time he returns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Alex Wood would be a fantastic signing as the 2nd of two SP acquisitions.  The other needs to be a TOR starter if the Sox are serious about getting good.  

I think 6/$180M would get it done for Cole.  I've previously said 6/$168M.  Somewhere in that realm.  At some point the money needs to be spent.  The Sox have so little committed moving forward that Cole at $30M AAV doesn't even get them close to a league average payroll.  

Rangers' announcers are convinced it would need to be closer to $210-240 over 6-7 years...but then they would need to overpay compare to the Astros, Angels, Phillies, Yankees, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'd be happy with Alex Wood but what if he returns from his back injury and is terrible? He has a big question mark here having missed almost 2/3rds of the year by the time he returns.

No doubt Wood is a big question mark.  Which is probably why you could get him for 1 year and $8-10M range.

I am in the Alex Wood camp (in addition to adding a front end guy) mainly because I want Kopech to spend the first month or two in AAA getting his feet wet, slowly adding workload (thereby controlling his innings early), and taking it slow.  This also will get us a year of control back.  

Start the season with rotation of Cole (or other front end SP acquisition), Giolito, Cease, Wood, Lopez.

Once Kopech comes up bump Lopez to pen, unless injury necessitates it sooner.  The Sox need to take it easy with Kopech next season.  There is no way he is going to throw 200 innings, so IMO, the best of both worlds is letting him slowly regain his footing in AAA, get the year back in late May / early June, and then call him up with only 40 or so IP under his belt.  Realistically this is only possible if the Sox acquire two SP to go along with Gio, Cease and Lopez. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...