Free Agency - How confident are you?

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

They don't even need to be controllable, IMO. In this climate especially, I can easily see us trading for one and then extending him soon after. It's probably one of the best ways to allocate some of this money given the weak FA crop. It would not shock me to see one of the players you mentioned, or someone like Joc Pederson, end up as our long-term RF 

I’m not sure I’d want to trade the talent it would cost for one year of Joc with the year he is having and then pay to extend him.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Jose Abreu]

3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I’m not sure I’d want to trade the talent it would cost for one year of Joc with the year he is having and then pay to extend him.

For 2 years of him, the rumored cost was one of Bummer/Fry (Fry was thought to be more valuable at the time), Fulmer, Bush, and I think Laz Rivera? Since we'd be trading for just 1 year of him, I definitely don't think Bummer would need to be included, at least not without more coming back. Extending him is where I understand there being concern, but I don't think he'd cost that much to acquire

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said:

For 2 years of him, the rumored cost was one of Bummer/Fry (Fry was thought to be more valuable at the time), Fulmer, Bush, and I think Laz Rivera? Since we'd be trading for just 1 year of him, I definitely don't think Bummer would need to be included, at least not without more coming back. Extending him is where I understand there being concern, but I don't think he'd cost that much to acquire

That trade didn't happen though.

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

They need to prolific because they're not getting Rendon/Cole.

1) They'll sign Jason Castro to catch with McCann.

2) They sign or trade for a rightfielder

3) They should sign a left-handed reserve with all the righties on the lineup but we'll see there. I assume they end up filling that need internally but I would love Scooter Gennett on the more expensive side or Brad Miller on the cheaper side.

4) 1 or 2 SPs

5) At least two relievers. 

I'm there with you on this^

Sox are not going to be in on the big fish like Rendon/Cole

They will need to address backup catcher, utility infielder, starting RF, possibly 1B/DH, minimum one starting pitcher, a pen arm or two

I'd be totally good with Castro as a backup C, an infielder like Schoop/Gennett, Marcell Ozuna for RF, Abreu back on a one year deal (no longer), Odorizzi plus a couple pen arms. 

It might not result in an overly sexy offseason, but something like this would improve our chances to contend in 2020. Add to the above Kopech/Robert/Madrigal, and you can see the makings of a wild card roster. 

Mike Moustakas is another guy the Sox might be interested in? 

[Jose Abreu]

21 minutes ago, bmags said:

That trade didn't happen though.

Correct, but I don't believe it fell through due to us not meeting their price.

[Soxfest]

Excuses from Hahn and company we really tried not going to cut it this winter. 

[mqr]

11 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

 I'm there with you on this^

Sox are not going to be in on the big fish like Rendon/Cole

They will need to address backup catcher, utility infielder, starting RF, possibly 1B/DH, minimum one starting pitcher, a pen arm or two

I'd be totally good with Castro as a backup C, an infielder like Schoop/Gennett, Marcell Ozuna for RF, Abreu back on a one year deal (no longer), Odorizzi plus a couple pen arms. 

It might not result in an overly sexy offseason, but something like this would improve our chances to contend in 2020. Add to the above Kopech/Robert/Madrigal, and you can see the makings of a wild card roster. 

Mike Moustakas is another guy the Sox might be interested in? 

I like the idea of having Moustakas cover 2B as long as he needs to and them shifting him to a 1B/DH role

[Moan4Yoan]

4 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Excuses from Hahn and company we really tried not going to cut it this winter. 

At least it appears we are all on the same page this time.  I just hope people don’t backtrack and make the same excuses as last offseason that so-and-so wasn’t worth that contract, I’m glad the Sox didn’t sign him, blah blah blah.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

They have them parsed out it appears.

That list of RF outside Castellanos and Puig is straight garbage.  The list of veteran SP looks pretty deep however.

Marcell Ozuna?  

[steveno89]

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

At least it appears we are all on the same page this time.  I just hope people don’t backtrack and make the same excuses as last offseason that so-and-so wasn’t worth that contract, I’m glad the Sox didn’t sign him, blah blah blah.

I'm not sure the fanbase is really on the same page. Yes, not signing Machado sucked badly. That does not mean we should expect the organization to go hog wild in free agency right away. Rendon/Cole are not realistic targets.

 

[Drwhoo1]

It seems like every time I respond on this board, it has a negative tone to it. But with topics like this, I can’t see how It can’t. It’s so funny how most come on here and constantly rip on management being cheap or incompetent. That tells me all I need to know because if you really paid attention to what was going on, you’d see the good things happening. Good things made by management once they finally realized what they were doing wasn’t working and doing something about it.

First off, those that keep calling management cheap just have short memories and want to b****. All 1 has to do is look up payroll and you’ll notice that the White Sox have been in the top 5 and 10 of payroll many times. The way you guys talk about them would make everyone believe that they come in last every year lol

In terms of incompetent, that’s another story. With only 1 championship, they obviously haven’t been too successful. Not all being their fault with the strike etc. but to call them incompetent the last 3 years just shows that they would rather b**** than do anything else. It’s like I am on repeat. We are only in year 3 of their plan and can see what the potential results of them could be. And yet people complain about how bad they’ve been the last couple years. Duh!!! That’s what it was supposed to have been. What can’t you see about it.

If they had stayed on the same path as always than I could see the rational. They didn’t!!! Their payroll is small because if some of our prospects perform like they are supposed to, they will need it, so why all the complaints. In terms of free agents, I know they will come. I already stated before that 7 out of 9 starting spots will be taken and most of our pitching spots. They NEED to play and you guys want to keep signing whoever just because our payroll is so small. Forget that, it just so laughable. I’m glad we didn’t sign Harper. He’s definitely not worth the money he signed for. Machado, we’ll have to see about that but at least they gave it a go. The AAV was in some reports more than what he signed for so to me they tried. Again, our spots are mostly taken so we need to be sure of what we have and then fill in the rest. 

Now, I’m not saying everything will work out but so far it’s looking like we might be good. Real good. And yet most guys can only complain about how the last 3 years have gone. That I will never understand. I know some do and am thankful there are. It just gets tiresome to hear the same stuff over and over again. 

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Marcell Ozuna?  

Ozuna would be a really nice fit in RF for the Sox. 

[caulfield12]

The problem with Ozuna is that he's angling to be one of the most expensive FA's on the market due to his age...

I also brought up Dickerson, who's in the middle of an injury-plagued year....Domingo Santana, on the block again with the Mariners and defensively-limited...and Franmil Reyes/Hunter Renfroe/Wil Myers.    Then you have the yearly Dodgers' logjam at that position as well.

The problem is that, other than Ozuna, all of the players mentioned for RF have defensive pretty serious defensive issues.   Renfroe's playing so well, has a strong arm...he's going to be overpriced in the trade market, so Myers and his bad contract would be who they would try to offload, which would be okay if they ate half of it.   Myers is as good a bounceback candidate as any, if you're not going with a Tier 1 guy in Ozuna.

[Drwhoo1]

I wanted to come on here with facts to back up my statements. Everyone can find them. There have been changes made, things are happening. We are not just standing still. They are not cheap and they are doing something about the bad past performances. To complain before the results are in is what I am posting about. I don’t know what more you need. It’s not a constant rebuild, it should end after 3 or 4 years. That’s fast. Show me otherwise. I’m done. Just wanted to get that off my chest

[BackDoorBreach]

Cole

Grandal

Ozuna

Tier 2 SP maybe

Bullpen.

Thanks I'd be happy.

I have a good feeling the Sox are going to get it done this offseason and there is 0 reason or excuse for them not to drop 100 million this offseason.  I don't think we have prospect capital to get a trade done for anybody worthwhile either but who knows.

[harkness99]

Just being honest - but before I believe they won't fuck it up, I actually need to see some proof.

 

[steveno89]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The problem with Ozuna is that he's angling to be one of the most expensive FA's on the market due to his age...

I also brought up Dickerson, who's in the middle of an injury-plagued year....Domingo Santana, on the block again with the Mariners and defensively-limited...and Franmil Reyes/Hunter Renfroe/Wil Myers.    Then you have the yearly Dodgers' logjam at that position as well.

The problem is that, other than Ozuna, all of the players mentioned for RF have defensive pretty serious defensive issues.   Renfroe's playing so well, has a strong arm...he's going to be overpriced in the trade market, so Myers and his bad contract would be who they would try to offload, which would be okay if they ate half of it.   Myers is as good a bounceback candidate as any, if you're not going with a Tier 1 guy in Ozuna.

Ozuna will have an interesting market. His age is certainly a plus, but he's not exactly a world beater either. I could see a market of a three year deal for 45-60 million being realistic? 

[steveno89]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Cole

Grandal

Ozuna

Tier 2 SP maybe

Bullpen.

Thanks I'd be happy.

I have a good feeling the Sox are going to get it done this offseason and there is 0 reason or excuse for them not to drop 100 million this offseason.  I don't think we have prospect capital to get a trade done for anybody worthwhile either but who knows.

You realize that offseason would easily cost over +$80 million right? Not happening unfortunately

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Drwhoo1 said:

It seems like every time I respond on this board, it has a negative tone to it. But with topics like this, I can’t see how It can’t. It’s so funny how most come on here and constantly rip on management being cheap or incompetent. That tells me all I need to know because if you really paid attention to what was going on, you’d see the good things happening. Good things made by management once they finally realized what they were doing wasn’t working and doing something about it.

First off, those that keep calling management cheap just have short memories and want to b****. All 1 has to do is look up payroll and you’ll notice that the White Sox have been in the top 5 and 10 of payroll many times. The way you guys talk about them would make everyone believe that they come in last every year lol

In terms of incompetent, that’s another story. With only 1 championship, they obviously haven’t been too successful. Not all being their fault with the strike etc. but to call them incompetent the last 3 years just shows that they would rather b**** than do anything else. It’s like I am on repeat. We are only in year 3 of their plan and can see what the potential results of them could be. And yet people complain about how bad they’ve been the last couple years. Duh!!! That’s what it was supposed to have been. What can’t you see about it.

If they had stayed on the same path as always than I could see the rational. They didn’t!!! Their payroll is small because if some of our prospects perform like they are supposed to, they will need it, so why all the complaints. In terms of free agents, I know they will come. I already stated before that 7 out of 9 starting spots will be taken and most of our pitching spots. They NEED to play and you guys want to keep signing whoever just because our payroll is so small. Forget that, it just so laughable. I’m glad we didn’t sign Harper. He’s definitely not worth the money he signed for. Machado, we’ll have to see about that but at least they gave it a go. The AAV was in some reports more than what he signed for so to me they tried. Again, our spots are mostly taken so we need to be sure of what we have and then fill in the rest. 

Now, I’m not saying everything will work out but so far it’s looking like we might be good. Real good. And yet most guys can only complain about how the last 3 years have gone. That I will never understand. I know some do and am thankful there are. It just gets tiresome to hear the same stuff over and over again. 

Sure, but those payrolls were back in 2006-2008 and 2010-11.

http://www.stevetheump.com/Payrolls.htm#2006payroll

 

If our current young core  is mixed together with the obvious top 3 prospects....and Giolito/Kopech/Cease/Lopez/Dunning form at least 3/5th's of our future rotations in the coming future, then everything SHOULD be okay if they make the right moves to supplement with veterans like the 2013 Red Sox, or this year's Twins.

Of course, it still depends on a number of X factors, like catching...that position hasn't been filled adequately since AJ Pierzynski for the White Sox, and is vitally important to forming a playoff team.   But pitching...defense...there's no getting around that those are the two biggest weaknesses that need to be shored up if they want to be legitimately competitive.

 

Of course, the main complaints are about round 1-5 drafting, injuries, not taking advantage of the opportunity to sign an additional haul of Latin Americans in Robert's class, managing/fundamentals/defensive execution, the Tatis trade, there are lots of positives but there are some negatives that can/should easily be addressed.   The skepticism was natural after missing out on the two big FA targets and then watching the number of potential free agents in 2020 and 2021 come off the board one by one.  The concerns about Renteria, Steverson and Cooper are not new, but they're not without warrant, either.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2019 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

When you have to go back to the Albert Belle signing to show the Sox were willing to spend top dollar to get top talent that's all you need to know about next off season.

Probably not happening...hope it does, but I'm not holding my breath.

The can CAN and SHOULD get five or six solid free agents though who can fill holes, provide leadership and actually produce...at least on paper...strange things happen when free agents put on that Sox uniform as history shows they fall off the cliff.

One thing is for sure if the Sox with a young team on the rise and plenty of payroll space don't make significant improvements I think the fan base will basically say they'll never trust this front office again (i.e. fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me)

Edited July 22, 2019 by Lip Man 1

[poppysox]

28 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Cole

Grandal

Ozuna

Tier 2 SP maybe

Bullpen.

Thanks I'd be happy.

I have a good feeling the Sox are going to get it done this offseason and there is 0 reason or excuse for them not to drop 100 million this offseason.  I don't think we have prospect capital to get a trade done for anybody worthwhile either but who knows.

That would be a very good offseason and it's doable.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

When you have to go back to the Albert Belle signing to show the Sox were willing to spend top dollar to get top talent that's all you need to know about next off season.

Probably not happening...hope it does, but I'm not holding my breath.

The can CAN and SHOULD get five or six solid free agents though who can fill holes, provide leadership and actually produce...at least on paper...strange things happen when free agents put on that Sox uniform as history shows they fall off the cliff.

One thing is for sure if the Sox with a young team on the rise and plenty of payroll space don't make significant improvements I think the fan base will basically say they'll never trust this front office again (i.e. fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me)

It's the third obvious rebuilding under JR...late 80's, late 90's and then 2016 through 2020.

And Adam Dunn was probably the biggest free agent signing after Belle...we all know how well that went, that he made the NY Times more frequently the second half that year than the sports page.  He was "pretty good" in 2012, but the damage to the fanbase was already done.   By then, the last hopes of following up the 2005 World Series team with a "Sox Decade" were but ashes in the dustbin of history.

[RTC]

32 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Cole

Grandal

Ozuna

Tier 2 SP maybe

Bullpen.

Thanks I'd be happy.

You won't be happy.

 

34 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I have a good feeling the Sox are going to get it done this offseason and there is 0 reason or excuse for them not to drop 100 million this offseason. 

There wasn't this past winter either but that didn't stop them.

 

35 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't think we have prospect capital to get a trade done for anybody worthwhile either but who knows.

I agree for the most part, but it probably depends on if they're able to sign anyone.  For instance, if they do sign 1 or 2 SP, that could make someone like Stiever available.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

51 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Ozuna would be a really nice fit in RF for the Sox. 

Ozuna is a bad LF'er, I dont think you can put him in right and eloy in left. Robert better be Buxton 2.0 defensively if they do that.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I think we'll see a lot more action via trade than we will FA.  I think Hahn is more comfortable working with trading personnel than he is working with Jerry on money when it comes to a big splash.  Which isn't to say we won't sign any FA, there are going to be some decent, economically sound pickups to be made for the pen, backup C, and maybe a 5th starter.  RF and a good SP will likely come via trade.