Free Agency - How confident are you?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, beautox said:

Where then will they spend the money? on Cole, Rendon or Ozuna? please anyone who has followed this org knows that isn't happening especially after they shit the bed last off-season and got minimal blow back from it.

Well the free agent market is incredibly deep with starting pitching, so that’s one area.  I fully expect us to sign one high end starter (even if it’s not Cole) and wouldn’t surprised if we added a second lesser one.  No idea why we’d ever trade that much prospect currency for Marco Gonzalez (your proposal is a gross overpay), let alone so we can rock a $75M payroll next year.  That simply doesn’t make a lick of sense whatsoever and you honestly can’t actually believe that’s a plausible scenario.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, zisk said:

Marco G. has pitched solidly for 2 years now, but in a smaller pack his home rum rate might double. If that were the case, he would have trouble just staying in

the rotation. Remember he gives up more hits than innings pitched. Add a few taters to that and it could spell disaster.

Gonzalez would be fine if he came dirt cheap (say a guy like Rutherford as the centerpiece), but I’m guessing that’s an unrealistic assumption and there are way too many quality starters in free agency that can be had just for money.

[ChiSox59]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:42 AM, beautox said:

I have 0 confidence the sox will be players in this off season's elite free agents with the exception of Will Smith. They're more likely to make a trade or two and sign players like Matt Moore looking for a bounce back with Kopech and Rodon on their way back.

 

I envision something like this and i'm not endorssing bringing back Abreu for more than anything but a year + opition but here it is.

 

Re-Sign Abreu for 2 years 28 Mil with an option for 12M and 4M buy out

Sign RP Will Smith* 3 years 29 Mil

Sign SP Matt Moore* 1 year 3 Mil

Trade SP Dunning/Stiever + OF Rutherford*/Walker* + 1B Sheets* to the Mariners for SP Marco Gonzales*

 

DH - Mercedes
C - Collins*
1B - Abreu
2B - Madrigal
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada#
LF - Jimenez
CF - Robert
RF - Garcia#

Robert
Anderson
Moncada#
Jimenez
Abreu
Mercedes
Collins*
Garcia#
Madrigal

C - McCann
IF - Sanchez#
UT - Goins*
UT - Mendick

SP - Giolito
SP - Lopez
SP - Gonzales* <- Trade from SEA
SP - Cease
SP - Moore* / Kopech / Rodon*

CL - Colome
SU - Bummer*
SU - Smith*
MR - Fry*
MR - Cordero
LO - Frare*
LR - Hererra

That Marco Gonzalez trade is crazy bad for the Sox.

Edited August 24, 2019 by ChiSox59

[GermanSoxFan]

There is being pessimistic and there is thinking the Sox will sign the corpse of Matt Moore.

[Chicago White Sox]

41 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

There is being pessimistic and there is thinking the Sox will sign the corpse of Matt Moore.

He literally thinks we’ll sign Matt Moore and rock a $75M payroll instead of signing any of Cole, Strasburg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu, Hamels, Kuechel, Ororizzi, Gibson, Roark, Pineda, Miley, Wood, Porcello, & Gio Gonzalez.  That’s 15 guys that are leagues better than Moore and he actually thinks we won’t sign any of any them.  It may have been the most pessimistic post I have ever seen on this board other than that one time Parkman predicted the team plane would go down because of bad storms.

[Jack Parkman]

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He literally thinks we’ll sign Matt Moore and rock a $75M payroll instead of signing any of Cole, Strasburg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, Ryu, Hamels, Kuechel, Ororizzi, Gibson, Roark, Pineda, Miley, Wood, Porcello, & Gio Gonzalez.  That’s 15 guys that are leagues better than Moore and he actually thinks we won’t sign any of any them.  It may have been the most pessimistic post I have ever seen on this board other than that one time Parkman predicted the team plane would go down because of bad storms.

That was a joke. It was more of a "How could this possibly be worse?" Thing. 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[South Side Fireworks Man]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:42 AM, beautox said:

I have 0 confidence the sox will be players in this off season's elite free agents with the exception of Will Smith. They're more likely to make a trade or two and sign players like Matt Moore looking for a bounce back with Kopech and Rodon on their way back.

 

I envision something like this and i'm not endorssing bringing back Abreu for more than anything but a year + opition but here it is.

 

Re-Sign Abreu for 2 years 28 Mil with an option for 12M and 4M buy out

Sign RP Will Smith* 3 years 29 Mil

Sign SP Matt Moore* 1 year 3 Mil

Trade SP Dunning/Stiever + OF Rutherford*/Walker* + 1B Sheets* to the Mariners for SP Marco Gonzales*

 

DH - Mercedes
C - Collins*
1B - Abreu
2B - Madrigal
SS - Anderson
3B - Moncada#
LF - Jimenez
CF - Robert
RF - Garcia#

Robert
Anderson
Moncada#
Jimenez
Abreu
Mercedes
Collins*
Garcia#
Madrigal

C - McCann
IF - Sanchez#
UT - Goins*
UT - Mendick

SP - Giolito
SP - Lopez
SP - Gonzales* <- Trade from SEA
SP - Cease
SP - Moore* / Kopech / Rodon*

CL - Colome
SU - Bummer*
SU - Smith*
MR - Fry*
MR - Cordero
LO - Frare*
LR - Hererra

Well that would suck.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That was a joke. It was more of a "How could this possibly be worse?" Thing. 

Lol...I honestly made that up or thought I had at least, but apparently not!

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol...I honestly made that up or thought I had at least, but apparently not!

I think you did but I'm not sure....LOL. I'm not a negative Nancy anymore......

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think you did but I'm not sure....LOL. I'm not a negative Nancy anymore......

You know I like optimistic Parkman!  Look what you did with Giolito!  If you believe in Cole, I’m certain you can will his way into our rotation!

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Stone is nothing but a shill for the front office these days

 

[Balta1701]

Just like the Tigers were stuck with Verlander, the Diamondbacks stuck with Greinke, the Yankees stuck with Sabathia, the Dodgers were stuck with that Kershaw guy. 

[Middle Buffalo]

I think Stone's correct. I don't see them going all in for Cole. 

I think they will kick the tires on Wheeler & Bumgarner, but I think it's more likely they end up signing Wacha/Wood - a couple of guys like that. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either. Sign some middle of the rotation types that can eat some innings and have some upside without committing $25M to a guy who might not be worth it.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, Middle Buffalo said:

I think Stone's correct. I don't see them going all in for Cole. 

I think they will kick the tires on Wheeler & Bumgarner, but I think it's more likely they end up signing Wacha/Wood - a couple of guys like that. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either. Sign some middle of the rotation types that can eat some innings and have some upside without committing $25M to a guy who might not be worth it.

Again, that’s going to be a roster with a $75M payroll.  What is the point of financial flexibility if we’re afraid to use it?  I will say this with absolute certainty: not landing at least one of Cole, Strasburg, Wheeler, Bumgarner, or Ryu would be a complete & utter failure and would likely be a precursor to the rebuild failing.  Filling in holes with quality free agents is an essential part of finishing this thing off.  We don’t necessarily need to sign Cole, but if our biggest additions are huge question marks like Wacha & Wood then god help us all.

Edited August 24, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[BackDoorBreach]

Some of you guys have Stockholm Syndrome.

They didn't ship off all their assets to sign Ivan Novas and Michael Wachas when the window is opening.  They could spend 100 million in AAV this offseason and still not be in front half of the league in terms of payroll.  They are playing with 90 million dollars this year which is bottom 3 in payroll in all of baseball in a non competitive year.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Some of you guys have Stockholm Syndrome.

They didn't ship off all their assets to sign Ivan Novas and Michael Wachas when the window is opening.  They could spend 100 million in AAV this offseason and still not be in front half of the league in terms of payroll.  They are playing with 90 million dollars this year which is bottom 3 in payroll in all of baseball in a non competitive year.

 

Exactly.  I’m shocked at the amount of people who ignore our vast history of supporting a league average payroll or better under Reinsdorf and suddenly think he’s going cheap (despite quickly approaching death’s door) to suck in those sweet, sweet rebuild profits.  It’s absolutely mind-boggling, conspiracy theory type bullshit and it really needs to die.  Just because we missed out on Manny Machado in epic fashion does NOT mean we’ll never sign a halfway decent free agent again.  There is a wide, wide gap between the Machado’s & Harper’s of the world and guys like Wheeler, Castellanos, & Grandal.  We can and will most definitely sign guys of that latter quality in the coming years.

[caulfield12]

If the entire front office is so afraid to put themselves on the line by actually committing themselves and JR’s pocketbook to a SINGLE long-term pitching contract despite this “unprecedented financial flexibility,” then why are they even there?

It’s like we are forever haunted by the ghosts of Navarro, Contreras and Danks going bad.

And, if that’s REALLY the case, why not do something more innovative like go to all relievers to start games...it’s like we are stuck in Cooper’s 2005-2006 mindset of a rotation comprised of horses when the game has completely changed around him.

Cole is the definition of a TOR horse who carries the team, but still too risky.

It’s actually quite maddening.

I’m still not convinced there’s one capable member of that front office who can pinpoint talent and commit to fighting ceaselessly for such an acquisition.

Who?  Haber?  Hostetler?  Fabian?   

Seems they are much better at talking themselves out of moves or making incorrect assessments of the actual market for a player...then expect us to be shocked along with them when they fail.

The only time we actually “won” was KW and Paddy going aggressively after Robert and beating out the Cardinals.  One example from a seven year track record, unless you want to cite Robertson/Cabrera/LaRoche as great wins for the FO.

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Some of you guys have Stockholm Syndrome.

They didn't ship off all their assets to sign Ivan Novas and Michael Wachas when the window is opening.  They could spend 100 million in AAV this offseason and still not be in front half of the league in terms of payroll.  They are playing with 90 million dollars this year which is bottom 3 in payroll in all of baseball in a non competitive year.

 

Well, at the same time as we have RH generically saying "we should have room to be more active this offseason" or whatever he said, we have the FO basically saying "naw we're not going after the top guy at all". For people who have Stockholm Syndrome, that line by Stone is a guest appearance by their kidnapper.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, at the same time as we have RH generically saying "we should have room to be more active this offseason" or whatever he said, we have the FO basically saying "naw we're not going after the top guy at all". For people who have Stockholm Syndrome, that line by Stone is a guest appearance by their kidnapper.

Stone is now part of the front office?

[Moan4Yoan]

16 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Stone is nothing but a shill for the front office these days

 

Steve Stone is preparing Sox fans for a disappointing offseason of dumpster diving so the Sox can maintain “financial flexibility.”  And a couple more pieces, Steve?  Did Bill Walton leave his stash in the booth for Steve to find?

It’s already being planned out, folks.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Moan4Yoan]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Stone is now part of the front office?

Just like Hawk was a mouthpiece for Reinsdorf and the front office, Stone has now filled that role.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Anybody who thinks we are signing Cole is just in flat out denial at this point 

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Just like Hawk was a mouthpiece for Reinsdorf and the front office, Stone has now filled that role.

Based on what exactly?

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Anybody who thinks we are signing Cole is just in flat out denial at this point 

I’m not sure there is even one person on this board who thinks we’ll sign Cole...

[Thad Bosley]

16 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Stone is nothing but a shill for the front office these days

 

To Stone I would say, the contract would look very good from the beginning to the middle, as it would align with the upcoming contention window when the team still has Giolito and Moncada under team control.  Adding a bona fide ace like Cole into that time frame would greatly enhance the team’s ability to attain another WS trophy during that time.  Just deal with any potential problems with the back end of the contract when you get there.  In the meantime, maximize the team’s ability to win a championship over the next four to five years, period.