Free Agency - How confident are you?

[NWINFan]

52 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Based on what exactly?

You can base it on his recent public statements. Nothing has changed in one regard: Jerry Reinsdorf has never liked giving interviews and hasn't trusted the media for years. He prefers to talk through others such as Harrelson and Farmer and now Stone. Reinsdorf has become a recluse of sorts, and I don't blame him in a way. He has taken a good deal of abuse although he has handed it out, too. In any event, the White Sox feel the media has not been fair to them and so they pick and choose how they do things. I think JR needs an up front and regular spokesman who fans know is speaking for him officially. The team has never manage media relations well.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

You can base it on his recent public statements. Nothing has changed in one regard: Jerry Reinsdorf has never liked giving interviews and hasn't trusted the media for years. He prefers to talk through others such as Harrelson and Farmer and now Stone. Reinsdorf has become a recluse of sorts, and I don't blame him in a way. He has taken a good deal of abuse although he has handed it out, too. In any event, the White Sox feel the media has not been fair to them and so they pick and choose how they do things. I think JR needs an up front and regular spokesman who fans know is speaking for him officially. The team has never manage media relations well.

I don’t follow.  How do you know these aren’t just Stone’s opinions?  I’ve yet to see any proof or support that Stone is regurgitating Jerry’s views.

[Jack Parkman]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t follow.  How do you know these aren’t just Stone’s opinions?  I’ve yet to see any proof or support that Stone is regurgitating Jerry’s views.

You'll never get any proof. If he is though, prepare for a $75M payroll next year. Again, it seems like they're doing everything they can to alienate their fanbase. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

To Stone I would say, the contract would look very good from the beginning to the middle, as it would align with the upcoming contention window when the team still has Giolito and Moncada under team control.  Adding a bona fide ace like Cole into that time frame would greatly enhance the team’s ability to attain another WS trophy during that time.  Just deal with any potential problems with the back end of the contract when you get there.  In the meantime, maximize the team’s ability to win a championship over the next four to five years, period.  

There you go . Win as soon as possible and the rebuild is a success. If you make too many decisions based on 2024 and beyond you may not win a World Series or even get the long term success they desperately want but in reality haven't planned for at all and will have wasted millions on safer contracts on FA's. If things are done the same way they will get the same results that they had prior to the rebuild. Middling or half assed commitment to winning it all will always make the Sox not quite good enough to either make the playoffs or even if they do  for a year or 2 , never really good enough to sustain it or win the whole thing.

[SonofaRoache]

Stone's tweet sounds like something the Bulls FO would say, financial flexibility blah blah blah. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Put me in the camp that says if it's 8 years, I'm not signing him either.

[Chicago White Sox]

14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Put me in the camp that says if it's 8 years, I'm not signing him either.

But you’re ok with seven years?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

But you’re ok with seven years?

7 pushes it for me but I get beating the current record. 

[Thad Bosley]

6 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I don’t follow.  How do you know these aren’t just Stone’s opinions?  I’ve yet to see any proof or support that Stone is regurgitating Jerry’s views.

Actually, he regurgitated Reinsdorf’s views to a tee in this Twitter post:

”Huge contract for a lot of years” and “I don’t think it’ll be Cole”.  If that’s not the owner’s mantra towards premium free agent pitchers from what we’ve seen over the past four decades, I don’t know what is.

Sadly, nothing new here, but who knows?  Maybe it’s a fan decoy of sorts to lower expectations before dusting off the cobwebs on the purse strings and really going for it!

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Actually, he regurgitated Reinsdorf’s views to a tee in this Twitter post:

”Huge contract for a lot of years” and “I don’t think it’ll be Cole”.  If that’s not the owner’s mantra towards premium free agent pitchers from what we’ve seen over the past four decades, I don’t know what is.

Sadly, nothing new here, but who knows?  Maybe it’s a fan decoy of sorts to lower expectations before dusting off the cobwebs on the purse strings and really going for it!

So it’s not possible Stone thinks long contracts to pitchers are dumb?  I’m sure Reinsdorf doesn’t have exclusivity on that line of thinking.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So it’s not possible Stone thinks long contracts to pitchers are dumb?  I’m sure Reinsdorf doesn’t have exclusivity on that line of thinking.

I think long term contracts of any kind are dumb, but at least I'm willing to acknowledge that you have to pay to play. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Thad Bosley]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So it’s not possible Stone thinks long contracts to pitchers are dumb?  I’m sure Reinsdorf doesn’t have exclusivity on that line of thinking.

Reinsdorf and Stone are reportedly close; hell, it’s why he got the broadcasting gig with the Sox in the first place.  Therefore it’s very possible if not probable they share a similar viewpoint on this particular  matter.  

So maybe it’s likely both Stone’s own thinking and a regurgitation of the boss’ point of view, all wrapped up in one Tweet for mass public consumption.  

[Dan of Steel]

The Sox are not setting up for a dumpster dive. It's nonsensical to do so. They have way too much money to work with and the core is nearly assembled. The time is now. 

However, it wouldn't surprise me if Stone is just downing the idea that the Sox are going to shell out a huge long-term contract for Cole (which somebody will). That doesn't mean the Sox are going to scrape the bottom of the barrel this FA. Still plenty of quality FA acquisitions to make to compliment the core. 

[SoxBlanco]

3 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Actually, he regurgitated Reinsdorf’s views to a tee in this Twitter post:

”Huge contract for a lot of years” and “I don’t think it’ll be Cole”.  If that’s not the owner’s mantra towards premium free agent pitchers from what we’ve seen over the past four decades, I don’t know what is.

Sadly, nothing new here, but who knows?  Maybe it’s a fan decoy of sorts to lower expectations before dusting off the cobwebs on the purse strings and really going for it!

If Stone is a mouthpiece (which is debatable), how do we know he wasn’t told to say that to avoid the let down that Machado caused?

But either way, I don’t think anybody is expecting Cole.

[Thad Bosley]

38 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said:

The Sox are not setting up for a dumpster dive. It's nonsensical to do so. They have way too much money to work with and the core is nearly assembled. The time is now. 

However, it wouldn't surprise me if Stone is just downing the idea that the Sox are going to shell out a huge long-term contract for Cole (which somebody will). That doesn't mean the Sox are going to scrape the bottom of the barrel this FA. Still plenty of quality FA acquisitions to make to compliment the core. 

Like who?  Which free agent target not named Cole but who doesn’t represent a “dumpster dive” is available who isn’t at an age where the latter part of their contract isn’t going to present the same sort of problem Stone is referring to with a potential Cole contract?  

All of the guys heading into free agency this offseason, who you would deem a quality player today, are turning 30 or thereabouts, but will get some sort of long term deal that will have the same risk on the back end of the contract that a Cole contract might.  The likes of Bumgarner, Wheeler, Martinez - they present the same risk, if not more so, than Cole down the line, so why throw the lot in with them. 

Again, who are the “quality FA acquisitions” we should target, who are going to cost some significant dough themselves, rather than exercise our unprecedented “financial flexibility” on a guy like Cole?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Like who?  Which free agent target not named Cole but who doesn’t represent a “dumpster dive” is available who isn’t at an age where the latter part of their contract isn’t going to present the same sort of problem Stone is referring to with a potential Cole contract?  

All of the guys heading into free agency this offseason, who you would deem a quality player today, are turning 30 or thereabouts, but will get some sort of long term deal that will have the same risk on the back end of the contract that a Cole contract might.  The likes of Bumgarner, Wheeler, Martinez - they present the same risk, if not more so, than Cole down the line, so why throw the lot in with them. 

Again, who are the “quality FA acquisitions” we should target, who are going to cost some significant dough themselves, rather than exercise our unprecedented “financial flexibility” on a guy like Cole?

Cole is getting significantly more years than guys like Bumgarner & Wheeler, so like it or not there is more inherent long term risk with a Cole contract.  And trust me, I’d happily take on that risk and sign Cole, but am able to acknowledge that additional risk that comes with a seven or eight year deal.

[Dan of Steel]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Like who?  Which free agent target not named Cole but who doesn’t represent a “dumpster dive” is available who isn’t at an age where the latter part of their contract isn’t going to present the same sort of problem Stone is referring to with a potential Cole contract?  

All of the guys heading into free agency this offseason, who you would deem a quality player today, are turning 30 or thereabouts, but will get some sort of long term deal that will have the same risk on the back end of the contract that a Cole contract might.  The likes of Bumgarner, Wheeler, Martinez - they present the same risk, if not more so, than Cole down the line, so why throw the lot in with them. 

Again, who are the “quality FA acquisitions” we should target, who are going to cost some significant dough themselves, rather than exercise our unprecedented “financial flexibility” on a guy like Cole?

As CWS stated, Cole is younger and is playing at a higher level than Bumgarner, Wheeler (and Strasburg). Thus, he is more certainly going to get more money and more years.

[poppysox]

41 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said:

As CWS stated, Cole is younger and is playing at a higher level than Bumgarner, Wheeler (and Strasburg). Thus, he is more certainly going to get more money and more years.

Strasburg and Wheeler would more than satisfy me.  Gio, Strasburg, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, Wheeler with Rodon & Dunning waiting in the wings...works for me.  Might even keep Nova around if he continues to shine.  Would always have a competent starter even with the inevitable lost days every staff has.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Strasburg and Wheeler would more than satisfy me.  Gio, Strasburg, Lopez, Cease, Kopech, Wheeler with Rodon & Dunning waiting in the wings...works for me.  Might even keep Nova around if he continues to shine.  Would always have a competent starter even with the inevitable lost days every staff has.

Signing both of those guys would be almost as shocking as signing Machado...but, at this point, we don't even know what Strasburg will elect to do.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

They didn't go out and trade for a bunch of high end pitching so they could turn around and pay a ton of money for high end pitching.  They may sign/trade for a middle of the rotation guy but I think it's more likely they'll sign/trade for another back end/innings eater and count on the guys currently in the organization to step up. 

[Chicago White Sox]

23 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They didn't go out and trade for a bunch of high end pitching so they could turn around and pay a ton of money for high end pitching.  They may sign/trade for a middle of the rotation guy but I think it's more likely they'll sign/trade for another back end/innings eater and count on the guys currently in the organization to step up. 

Then we’ll be rocking well below average payrolls for the near future and that would be stupid as fuck when we have a cheap, young core already in place. 

[Jack Parkman]

39 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Then we’ll be rocking well below average payrolls for the near future and that would be stupid as fuck when we have a cheap, young core already in place. 

They could be looking at the Cubs as a cautionary tale of losing payroll flexibility as your young core reaches arbitration. But again, what good is payroll flexibility if you never use it? 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They didn't go out and trade for a bunch of high end pitching so they could turn around and pay a ton of money for high end pitching.  They may sign/trade for a middle of the rotation guy but I think it's more likely they'll sign/trade for another back end/innings eater and count on the guys currently in the organization to step up. 

They didn't shed all this payroll to simply become one of the lowest spending teams in the game, either.  

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

They didn't shed all this payroll to simply become one of the lowest spending teams in the game, either.  

Exactly, and I believe Hahn pretty much confirmed they will be looking to acquire premium pitching this offseason.

[Jose Abreu]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Exactly, and I believe Hahn pretty much confirmed they will be looking to acquire premium pitching this offseason.

Pitching, yes, but where did you get the premium part from? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that