Free Agency - How confident are you?

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

Pitching, yes, but where did you get the premium part from? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't remember that 

I thought he said or at least implied that in the NBC Sports podcast.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

Bumgarner: career National leaguer + a ton of mileage on his arm

Wheeler: not having that good of a season in the NL + a fairly lengthy injury history 

Hamels: old + wasn't good in the AL in the first half of last season

Ryu: career National leaguer + injury history + doesn't have a track record of being a workhorse

Strasburg: injury history + not a guarantee he'll even hit the free agent market

Keuchel: not having that great of a season in the NL

To me, it's Cole or bust. He makes the most sense for so many reasons 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Bumgarner: career National leaguer + a ton of mileage on his arm

Wheeler: not having that good of a season in the NL + a fairly lengthy injury history 

Hamels: old + wasn't good in the AL in the first half of last season

Ryu: career National leaguer + injury history + doesn't have a track record of being a workhorse

Strasburg: injury history + not a guarantee he'll even hit the free agent market

Keuchel: not having that great of a season in the NL

To me, it's Cole or bust. He makes the most sense for so many reasons 

Cole has an injury history as well. Also, he was fairly mediocre his last two seasons in Pittsburgh before going to Houston and their pitching lab. If you have reservations about all of these guys you should have them about Cole too, given he's going to be the most expensive. I wonder what he'd do away from Houston tbh. I think Cooper's philosophy would hurt his performance. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

They could be looking at the Cubs as a cautionary tale of losing payroll flexibility as your young core reaches arbitration. But again, what good is payroll flexibility if you never use it? 

A "Cautionary tale", from 4 playoff appearances in a row and 1 world series trophy? 

Please do exactly that.

[Jose Abreu]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

A "Cautionary tale", from 4 playoff appearances in a row and 1 world series trophy? 

Please do exactly that.

Right, and there's also next to no chance that they get as close to the luxury tax line as the Cubs, and I say that as someone who thinks they're gonna spend a lot of money in the near future 

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Cole has an injury history as well. Also, he was fairly mediocre his last two seasons in Pittsburgh before going to Houston and their pitching lab. If you have reservations about all of these guys you should have them about Cole too, given he's going to be the most expensive. I wonder what he'd do away from Houston tbh. I think Cooper's philosophy would hurt his performance. 

I think going after pitchers that seem more talented than their results in pittsburgh is a good market strategy. 

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think going after pitchers that seem more talented than their results in pittsburgh is a good market strategy. 

They might be the only team besides the Sox that is completely ass backwards in terms of analytics. 

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Cole has an injury history as well. Also, he was fairly mediocre his last two seasons in Pittsburgh before going to Houston and their pitching lab. If you have reservations about all of these guys you should have them about Cole too, given he's going to be the most expensive. I wonder what he'd do away from Houston tbh. I think Cooper's philosophy would hurt his performance. 

I don't think Cole would suddenly stop pitching at a high level once he leaves Houston and their pitching lab. But knowing our luck, he probably would if he signed with the Sox. Lol

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

They might be the only team besides the Sox that is completely ass backwards in terms of analytics. 

Nope, they started pitch framing and infield shifts...as well as keeping pitch counts down by keeping the ball in play on the infield with heavy two-seam fastballs.

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Nope, they started pitch framing and infield shifts...as well as keeping pitch counts down by keeping the ball in play on the infield with heavy two-seam fastballs.

Ok, then that confirms the Sox are the only team that remains in the dark ages. 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok, then that confirms the Sox are the only team that remains in the dark ages. 

Not exactly, the 2 seam fastball works for some guys but not for others. Both Verlander and Cole I believe were basically instructed to drop the pitch when they got to Houston as their 4 seam fastball was more effective. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Not exactly, the 2 seam fastball works for some guys but not for others. Both Verlander and Cole I believe were basically instructed to drop the pitch when they got to Houston as their 4 seam fastball was more effective. 

Yes, I don't know what to think about pitt. They are just more dogmatic as a whole. I've thought maybe they see performance as a whole improve with their outlook but may leave individual pitchers at a disadvantage. 

[GermanSoxFan]

14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok, then that confirms the Sox are the only team that remains in the dark ages. 

It’s fascinating how quick you are to form narratives in your head.

The Sox aren’t the Astros or Rays, but to jump to that kind of conclusion is just amazing.

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

It’s fascinating how quick you are to form narratives in your head.

The Sox aren’t the Astros or Rays, but to jump to that kind of conclusion is just amazing.

It's actually pretty obvious that is the case if you've been paying attention. Even if they do use some sort of analytics, they're probably a decade plus behind the rest of baseball. Go read what Madrigal said about their scouting reports. He said that Oregon St. was more advanced. That's pretty damning. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes, I don't know what to think about pitt. They are just more dogmatic as a whole. I've thought maybe they see performance as a whole improve with their outlook but may leave individual pitchers at a disadvantage. 

Liriano and Nova both had some of their best parts of their career after moving to Pitt. Glasnow and Cole seemingly had to leave to hit their ceilings. 

[GermanSoxFan]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's actually pretty obvious that is the case if you've been paying attention. Even if they do use some sort of analytics, they're probably a decade plus behind the rest of baseball. 

So they are a decade behind the Reds, Rockies, DBacks, Royals just to name a few? That is a take based on absolutely nothing.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

So they are a decade behind the Reds, Rockies, DBacks, Royals just to name a few? That is a take based on absolutely nothing.

Probably. Again, go read how Sox minor leaguers get drafted and their advanced scouting reports are significantly worse than those they got in college. That tells you all you need to know. If they're behind top D1 programs, imagine how far behind they are from the rest of baseball. 

This is the equivalent of taking a sales job and your boss giving you zero information about the product you're selling. They're not being given the tools necessary to succeed at their job. If I was a college or HS baseball player there is no way in hell I'd sign with this organization. None whatsoever. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Harold's Leg Lift]

29 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes, I don't know what to think about pitt. They are just more dogmatic as a whole. I've thought maybe they see performance as a whole improve with their outlook but may leave individual pitchers at a disadvantage. 

Coop and Searage are similar in that they fix guys mechanically. They're able to make bad pitchers decent.   The Astros fix guys stuff so they're ale to make good pitchers great.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Harold's Leg Lift

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

OH MY GOD, NOT THIS AGAIN

You got any arguments against this? 

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

Yes, this. 

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the Sox minor leaguers not being given the tools necessary to do their job to the best of their ability. If the Sox are giving advanced scouting reports that are behind those of top D1 NCAA programs, how in the hell can they expect their players to succeed? 

This has nothing to do with me, it's just a real life example of what I was talking about in that thread. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Jose Abreu]

On 8/24/2019 at 11:53 AM, Jack Parkman said:

I think you did but I'm not sure....LOL. I'm not a negative Nancy anymore......

Also, from this exact thread, 50 hours ago... 

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

You absolutely are talking about that. You wouldn't have made that analogy otherwise. 

No, I wasn't talking about that. I wasn't even thinking about that. I made that analogy because this is an example where it makes sense. It has nothing to do with me whatsoever. It has everything to do with the Sox not giving their players the tools necessary to do their job to the the best of their ability. Just because I mentioned that in that thread, doesn't mean this argument isn't valid here. This is about the failures of the Sox to gather data and help their on-field product. Nothing more. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Tony said:

I'm telling you that it never even crossed my mind, but you're choosing not to believe me. Whatever. That's your choice. 

Pretend I never posted that in that other thread and ask yourself if it makes sense. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They didn't go out and trade for a bunch of high end pitching so they could turn around and pay a ton of money for high end pitching.  They may sign/trade for a middle of the rotation guy but I think it's more likely they'll sign/trade for another back end/innings eater and count on the guys currently in the organization to step up. 

This is a valid presumption.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You got any arguments against this? 

Yeah, you're so infatuated with the scouting report/metric angle that you completely ignore that MANY players do not want information overload. 

Go read Greinkes quotes on analytics.

Individualized development PLANS and improvement plans is what players need from analytics. Scouting reports have not evolved much over the past decade. Pitch tendencies, and etc, arent new metrics and scouting reports for individual games and pitchers should NOT be extensive and long because you receive them frequently and overthinking is as dangerous as under thinking.

What has evolved in baseball is individualized data and analytics to develop and grow personally. 

Also, colleges have about 20 reports a year to divvy out - because you get one per series. You have all week to "study it" and it's a part of the learning process. 

You seem to think a scouting report for upcoming games is a lot more important than it is. Analytics have helped individualize development and growth bases on key metrics and tells - it has not grown, substantially, the daily scouting reports. If a player wants a better look at something they can request it. 

Players shouldnt have to request information that would improve their individual game.

Hitting, for some hitters is reactionary 100%. The hitters that are guess hitters will use tendencies and etc. Hitters who arent guess hitters may not even review daily scouting reports.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run