Free Agency - How confident are you?

[poppysox]

On 7/31/2019 at 8:07 PM, ChiSox1917 said:

Cole is absolutely the target

But I'd be satisfied with MadBum or Strasburg if he opts out

We have 3 potential TOR guys in Kopech, Cease and Gio.  Cole would be nice but is not essential.  If the money we didn't spend on Cole got us your type guys and Grandal…. I would take that every time.  A great lineup with a good pitcher on the mound is going to win a lot of games.  

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not sure I follow.

The early 2010s Pirates had a good young team, and didn't supplement it with FA. They never won anything. The Astros, in the same situation later in the decade, spent what they needed to in order to give them a chance to win. They have a ring. 

That is the choice the Sox have: Be the Pirates, who make the playoffs a few times but nothing more, or be the Astros, a perennial powerhouse. 

Nelson thinks they've already decided to be the Pirates. 

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The early 2010s Pirates had a good young team, and didn't supplement it with FA. They never won anything. The Astros, in the same situation later in the decade, spent what they needed to in order to give them a chance to win. They have a ring. 

That is the choice the Sox have: Be the Pirates, who make the playoffs a few times but nothing more, or be the Astros, a perennial powerhouse. 

Nelson thinks they've already decided to be the Pirates. 

Whether it’s the Pirates, Reds, Royals, Brewers, Twins...it seems like those midmarket teams only have 3 year windows.  

The 5 exceptions would be Tigers due to Ilitch, A’s, Indians, Cardinals and Rays.

Oakland has made the playoffs nine times since 2000...and will be right there with A’s and Indians this year.

Indians, likely 12 times in the last 25 years.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tampa_Bay_Rays_seasons

Best case scenario for the Sox is the Rays, their first decade they averaged 64.5 and 97.5 per year.

Last 12 seasons, only two years below 80 wins.  Four playoff appearances, two more seasons missing the playoffs with 90 wins...this year, looking like they’ll be right at the cut line again despite three major starting pitching injuries (Glasnow, Snell and one of their top minor league prospects in Honeywell.)

86.5 and 75.5 average record...in the worst stadium in baseball for attendance and bottom 5 t.v. market.

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

37 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The early 2010s Pirates had a good young team, and didn't supplement it with FA. They never won anything. The Astros, in the same situation later in the decade, spent what they needed to in order to give them a chance to win. They have a ring. 

That is the choice the Sox have: Be the Pirates, who make the playoffs a few times but nothing more, or be the Astros, a perennial powerhouse. 

Nelson thinks they've already decided to be the Pirates. 

Based on what?  What have the White Sox done to draw that conclusion?

If anything, selling international bonus slots for cash says the the White Sox plan to spend money this offseason in their own demented way.

I don’t hate Josh Nelson, but these SoxMachine clowns (minus Margulas) turn everything into the end of the world.  It’s enduring as fuck and it’s hard to take them serious sometimes even though they clearly know their baseball.

[Jack Parkman]

49 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Based on what?  What have the White Sox done to draw that conclusion?

If anything, selling international bonus slots for cash says the the White Sox plan to spend money this offseason in their own demented way.

I don’t hate Josh Nelson, but these SoxMachine clowns (minus Margulas) turn everything into the end of the world.  It’s enduring as fuck and it’s hard to take them serious sometimes even though they clearly know their baseball.

The Machado Fiasco. 

What is horrible about the whole situation is that KW was dumb enough to leak stuff to the media, and then they got the Padres involved. Had Kenny not blabbed to Nightengale/Levine, they probably would have been able to pull off the 8/250 with the two option years. Kenny's big mouth cost them Machado. Jerry and Rick need to block Nightengale and Levine from Kenny's work phone this winter.

Whenever you hear Sox stuff from those two you know it's coming from Kenny because Bob and Bruce are KW's BFFs. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

El Fiasco Machado. 

The Astros didn’t sign anyone on the level of Machado, so that parallel doesn’t really hold true.  The Sox will most certainly spend money and supplement the young core (even if it’s not Cole or Rendon), the bigger question is will they sign the right guys or end up with more busts.

 

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The Astros didn’t sign anyone on the level of Machado, so that parallel doesn’t really hold true.  The Sox will most certainly spend money and supplement the young core (even if it’s not Cole or Rendon), the bigger question is will they sign the right guys or end up with more busts.

 

Go read my edit. Kenny got impatient and he thought they could squeeze a few extra bucks out of the deal, so he blabbed to his BFFs Bob and Bruce. He ended up holding mr. johnson in his hand. Kenny needs to quit negotiating in the media. It isn't 2008 anymore. 

I don't even blame Jerry and Rick for it anymore. The Machado fiasco is 100% on Kenny. They were going to get an awesome deal and KW had to go ruin it. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Dick Allen]

All I know is we had a record number of "insiders" here last winter and were told by a couple that not only would the money be spent on one of Harper Machado, but don't be too surprised if they signed both. They ultimately signed for right at if not below projections and the Sox could not afford either. Their words not mine. To think they will be able to land a gut like Cole when teams like the Yankees won't be half assing their offers and have shown an ability to put together a team that can contend for years, is foolish. The money might be spent, but it won't be as much money as you think, and it won't be spent on the top of the line guys. It is one reason when they decided to fully rebuild, that rebuild should have included most of the baseball ops people.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

All I know is we had a record number of "insiders" here last winter and were told by a couple that not only would the money be spent on one of Harper Machado, but don't be too surprised if they signed both. They ultimately signed for right at if not below projections and the Sox could not afford either. Their words not mine. To think they will be able to land a gut like Cole when teams like the Yankees won't be half assing their offers and have shown an ability to put together a team that can contend for years, is foolish. The money might be spent, but it won't be as much money as you think, and it won't be spent on the top of the line guys. It is one reason when they decided to fully rebuild, that rebuild should have included most of the baseball ops people.

I agree, but it all comes down to what Jerry wants. If he doesn't want to give out that type of deal, then it wasn't going to happen regardless of whether or not KW/RH were whacked in 2016. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I agree, but it all comes down to what Jerry wants. If he doesn't want to give out that type of deal, then it wasn't going to happen regardless of whether or not KW/RH were whacked in 2016. 

That’s where you need someone who specializes in extracting value from second/third tier free agents and young players blocked on other rosters.

Someone whose mindset is every single penny counts...from Tampa, Cleveland or the A’s, etc.

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I agree, but it all comes down to what Jerry wants. If he doesn't want to give out that type of deal, then it wasn't going to happen regardless of whether or not KW/RH were whacked in 2016. 

Right. But when it comes to filling holes with lesser players, this regime has shown they don't make the correct choices. If some of the young guys pan out, we will be back to where we were in 2015-2016. Looking for reinforcements. And these guys have shown the come up woefully short in those situations. Milwaukee, TB, even Oak don't need a decade of sucking and everything to go right to field a major league quality team. It seems the White Sox do.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s where you need someone who specializes in extracting value from second/third tier free agents and young players blocked on other rosters.

Someone whose mindset is every single penny counts...from Tampa, Cleveland or the A’s, etc.

I have no arguments with that and have been advocating for that type of hire for a decade.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Right. But when it comes to filling holes with lesser players, this regime has shown they don't make the correct choices. If some of the young guys pan out, we will be back to where we were in 2015-2016. Looking for reinforcements. And these guys have shown the come up woefully short in those situations. Milwaukee, TB, even Oak don't need a decade of sucking and everything to go right to field a major league quality team. It seems the White Sox do.

 Milwakee’s success is 50% Marlins’ stupidity and 50% Stearns is really adept at judging position players...but yeah, it’s easy to come up with 7-8 small market teams that can still operate successfully in this environment, and yet we’ve somehow failed to come up with any unique (and sustainable) approaches to roster construction other than Cubans and trying to create a superpen out of collegiate pitchers, which has so far backfired pretty spectacularly, overall. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Based on what?  What have the White Sox done to draw that conclusion?

If anything, selling international bonus slots for cash says the the White Sox plan to spend money this offseason in their own demented way.

I don’t hate Josh Nelson, but these SoxMachine clowns (minus Margulas) turn everything into the end of the world.  It’s enduring as fuck and it’s hard to take them serious sometimes even though they clearly know their baseball.

Well Josh Nelson is just reacting to what the Sox are leading him to think. You don't even have to have a negative attitude . All you have to do is see the road signs .

 I especially like the meeting with how the Astro's signed Gerrit Cole ,that was enlightening and how the Astros have 75 high speed cameras throughout their system when some teams are getting around to just having one. He's right in the sense that the Sox haven't picked a lane. Playing service time games with Robert and Madrigal makes me think they really don't want to contend next year so why should anyone think they will make a splash in Free Agency besides the low payroll ? They aren't serious about signing intl. talent, they won't have an extra team for that talent , they play service time games, they won't fully do what they have to do in scouting and development. Do things the right way to PROVE you want to win otherwise quit pretending you want to win by giving the car a crap engine but expecting it not to break down. Get in the fast lane or get off the highway.

Edited August 4, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Jack Parkman]

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well Josh Nelson is just reacting to what the Sox are leading him to think. You don't even have to have a negative attitude . All you have to do is see the road signs .

 I especially like the meeting with how the Astro's signed Gerrit Cole ,that was enlightening and how the Astros have 75 high speed cameras throughout their system when some teams are getting around to just having one. He's right in the sense that the Sox haven't picked a lane. Playing service time games with Robert and Madrigal makes me think they really don't want to contend next year so why should anyone think they will make a splash in Free Agency besides the low payroll ? They aren't serious about signing intl. talent, they won't have an extra team for that talent , they play service time games, they won't fully do what they have to do in scouting and development. Do things the right way to PROVE you want to win otherwise quit pretending you want to win by giving the car a crap engine but expecting it not to break down. Get in the fast lane or get off the highway.

This is an awesome post. I'm probably going to spend a lot less time on this site this coming winter. All of the evidence points to Eeyore Murphy T. Ass returning. If this board is going to become insufferable again,  I'm not going to subject myself to it nearly as much. All of the evidence points in the direction of inaction and I don't want to hear the whining. I don't need that shit anymore. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

That’s where you need someone who specializes in extracting value from second/third tier free agents and young players blocked on other rosters.

Someone whose mindset is every single penny counts...from Tampa, Cleveland or the A’s, etc.

But there is a lesson to be learned from Cleveland  TB and Oakland. Is the goal sustained success or winning a World Series once in a while.? I'll take the World Series win . Only World Series wins count. Sustained success is just a footnote in franchise history books without a win in the World Series.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

But there is a lesson to be learned from Cleveland  TB and Oakland. Is the goal sustained success or winning a World Series once in a while.? I'll take the World Series win . Only World Series wins count. Sustained success is just a footnote in franchise history books without a win in the World Series.

Well, that’s the only rap on the Dodgers...or the most obvious one, 14 consecutive Braves’ postseasons with only 1 WS win.

In terms of the Astros, just look at the immediate turnaround in Aaron Sanchez, who quite a few of us pointed out as a great bounce back candidate.

Edited August 4, 2019 by caulfield12

[Springfield Soxfan]

Reinsdorf will NEVER sign Cole to a five year deal.  A major free agent pitching acquisition will never happen.  

[caulfield12]

27 minutes ago, sox71 said:

Reinsdorf will NEVER sign Cole to a five year deal.  A major free agent pitching acquisition will never happen.  

And he’s going to get six from SOMEONE.  Probably multiple teams.

[steveno89]

On 8/4/2019 at 3:47 PM, sox71 said:

Reinsdorf will NEVER sign Cole to a five year deal.  A major free agent pitching acquisition will never happen.  

Cole is absolutely getting at least a 5 year, likely a six year deal in FA for big money. 

I doubt the Sox will do it, but a TOR starter is the most difficult thing to acquire. A player like him would be cost prohibitive to trade for considering we need our core prospects to fill out our MLB roster. 

Whether it's a Cole/Wheeler/Bumgarner/Odorizzi/Wood we absolutely have to make a starting pitching splash to move this club towards contention. Qualifying offers might damage several of these guys values though. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, steveno89 said:

Cole is absolutely getting at least a 5 year, likely a six year deal in FA for big money. 

I doubt the Sox will do it, but a TOR starter is the most difficult thing to acquire. A player like him would be cost prohibitive to trade for considering we need our core prospects to fill out our MLB roster. 

Whether it's a Cole/Wheeler/Bumgarner/Odorizzi/Wood we absolutely have to make a starting pitching splash to move this club towards contention. Qualifying offers might damage several of these guys values though. 

Add in Ryu as well...possibly Strasburg.

[poppysox]

On 8/5/2019 at 6:29 PM, caulfield12 said:

Add in Ryu as well...possibly Strasburg.

I trust Hahn to get a quality starter or two.  He knows this club needs that kind of steady influence.  He is not as clueless as some on this board think.

[Dick Allen]

I think what ultimately matters is what Jason Kinander and his sources think. He is on fire. He almost got one right recently.

[Chicago White Sox]

54 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think what ultimately matters is what Jason Kinander and his sources think. He is on fire. He almost got one right recently.

He called the Nate Jones trade!!

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He called the Nate Jones trade!!

Is that the one from the LA area who was connected to Joc Pederson rumors this spring....someone's mom's twitter, if I recall?