Will you be mad if the Sox do not seriously try to move Abreu?

[The Ultimate Champion]

This is the last thread I am going to make for now.  Simple poll.  I answered Yes all 3 times.  I love Jose's contributions but his leadership -- if necessary -- should be replaced by a veteran bench player, like an Ian Kinsler in a bench role, or something like that.  We don't need to give him ABs any more.  He shouldn't be the 1B or DH on the next Sox team that contends for a pennant IMO.  

[Bob Sacamano]

For value? His value is pretty low overall to be honest.

[poppysox]

30 minutes ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

This is the last thread I am going to make for now.  Simple poll.  I answered Yes all 3 times.  I love Jose's contributions but his leadership -- if necessary -- should be replaced by a veteran bench player, like an Ian Kinsler in a bench role, or something like that.  We don't need to give him ABs any more.  He shouldn't be the 1B or DH on the next Sox team that contends for a pennant IMO.  

Need to extend Jose at a reasonable dollar amount (12-14 million per year) for 2 years preferably.  If Jose won't go for that...trade him.  Don't end up empty handed in the off season.  I want nothing to do with a qualifying offer.

[Jack Parkman]

40 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

For value? His value is pretty low overall to be honest.

Yeah, he's not going to garner an offer worth trading him for. 

Their only chance of doing anything is if Bummer and Colome are packaged together. Otherwise, they're going to stand pat. Colome alone won't get much either. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[The Ultimate Champion]

Do you guys really, honestly believe he is worth nothing?

It was reported last year that the Astros strongly considered giving up Martes for Avi, even though Avi was having a very disappointing season overall.  And I know Avi is an OF etc etc but he's not exactly a GGer out there, and his value was mostly in his bat,

I think both Boston and Houston would like to have him.  I am not a pro scout, etc., but I am going to bet that the Sox have guys who know the lower levels of both Boston and Houston's farm very well, and I can't imagine there isn't an interesting upside-type player out there for Abreu.  His power numbers are very good and in a tougher lineup he's especially going to be a force.  

I'd take Groome from Boston, and I'm not sure what HOU has to offer, but I would take pitching.

I think there is a bit of truth to the "leadership" talk.  I also think there's a lot of bullshit in that speak, which is a GM trying to let it be publicly known that he wants some better offers.  But of the truth of the leadership talk, I am going to guess that the Sox (at least hopefully) don't want TA to be the "clubhouse leader," and that Yoan (who I would imagine is the guy they ideally would want to be the clubhouse leader) isn't really the type to do it.  And of course McCann has only been here half a season and is only under control for 1 more season.  I do wonder if, legitimately, the Sox think about Robert coming up, and they want Abreu to kind of temper his enthusiasm a bit and not let him get a superstar attitude going when he gets here.  Obviously TA isn't going to do anything to stop that, and if Yoan isn't that type of leader, maybe they feel they need Abreu to stick around and keep the next wave of kids coming up in check.  

Still, even if there is some truth to that above, they should be able to bring a guy in over the offseason for that purpose, and the manager is supposed to be able to handle that stuff.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

2 minutes ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

Do you guys really, honestly believe he is worth nothing?

It was reported last year that the Astros strongly considered giving up Martes for Avi, even though Avi was having a very disappointing season overall.  And I know Avi is an OF etc etc but he's not exactly a GGer out there, and his value was mostly in his bat,

I think both Boston and Houston would like to have him.  I am not a pro scout, etc., but I am going to bet that the Sox have guys who know the lower levels of both Boston and Houston's farm very well, and I can't imagine there isn't an interesting upside-type player out there for Abreu.  His power numbers are very good and in a tougher lineup he's especially going to be a force.  

I'd take Groome from Boston, and I'm not sure what HOU has to offer, but I would take pitching.

I think there is a bit of truth to the "leadership" talk.  I also think there's a lot of bullshit in that speak, which is a GM trying to let it be publicly known that he wants some better offers.  But of the truth of the leadership talk, I am going to guess that the Sox (at least hopefully) don't want TA to be the "clubhouse leader," and that Yoan (who I would imagine is the guy they ideally would want to be the clubhouse leader) isn't really the type to do it.  And of course McCann has only been here half a season and is only under control for 1 more season.  I do wonder if, legitimately, the Sox think about Robert coming up, and they want Abreu to kind of temper his enthusiasm a bit and not let him get a superstar attitude going when he gets here.  Obviously TA isn't going to do anything to stop that, and if Yoan isn't that type of leader, maybe they feel they need Abreu to stick around and keep the next wave of kids coming up in check.  

Still, even if there is some truth to that above, they should be able to bring a guy in over the offseason for that purpose, and the manager is supposed to be able to handle that stuff.

Abreu currently has a wRC+ of 109. That means he's technically only 9% better than league average. Don't let the HR's fool you. Yes, he's been a fixture for the Sox lineup, but he is dangerously close to having a sub-.300 OBP. He is far more valuable to the Sox than any other team right now due to what he provides the clubhouse.

[The Ultimate Champion]

"He is far more valuable to the Sox than any other team right now due to what he provides the clubhouse."

 

I see this a lot.  But it is not true, especially in the case of Boston.

The value of Boston getting back into the playoffs in Mookie's walk year and after the Sale extension and Eovaldi deal, etc., is way, way, more important to Boston than Jose's leadership values are to the Sox.  

Dombrowski knows he needs to get back to the playoffs this year.  The value of Abreu in that middle of the order is going to be worth giving up something from the farm that is far away, for sure.  This season is a really, really big deal for Boston.  If they miss the playoffs, their fans aren't going to be happy, and it's not going to be getting a whole lot easier to win that division in the future with the way their young players are getting paid.

[Bob Sacamano]

11 minutes ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

"He is far more valuable to the Sox than any other team right now due to what he provides the clubhouse."

 

I see this a lot.  But it is not true, especially in the case of Boston.

The value of Boston getting back into the playoffs in Mookie's walk year and after the Sale extension and Eovaldi deal, etc., is way, way, more important to Boston than Jose's leadership values are to the Sox.  

Dombrowski knows he needs to get back to the playoffs this year.  The value of Abreu in that middle of the order is going to be worth giving up something from the farm that is far away, for sure.  This season is a really, really big deal for Boston.  If they miss the playoffs, their fans aren't going to be happy, and it's not going to be getting a whole lot easier to win that division in the future with the way their young players are getting paid.

Psst...Mookie's not a free agent after this year.

[The Ultimate Champion]

^Oops.  Well, I still stand by my major point: Abreu's value to the Sox is nowhere near what his value would be to another team that believes he helps them get into the playoffs.

[TheBlackSox8]

I've posted this before, but I'll iterate it again...

Jose's protection for his time in Chicago.

Adam Dunn

Conor Gillaspie

Melky Cabrera

Adam Laroche

Matt Davidson

Daniel Palka

Avasail Garcia

Todd Frazier

Yonder Alonso

Throw him in that Boston lineup and he'll be a monster.  Throw him in a great lineup, and he'll be a monster.  Today he had the best hitter on the team behind him, and look how he produced.  Don't sleep on his bat in a great lineup.  Boston would absolutely love someone like Abreu to plug in at first/DH

 

[greg775]

4 hours ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

This is the last thread I am going to make for now.  Simple poll.  I answered Yes all 3 times.  I love Jose's contributions but his leadership -- if necessary -- should be replaced by a veteran bench player, like an Ian Kinsler in a bench role, or something like that.  We don't need to give him ABs any more.  He shouldn't be the 1B or DH on the next Sox team that contends for a pennant IMO.  

Why? Why? Why? What the hell has he done to deserve this? It's a non sequitir. On a team that's played such embarrassing baseball the last 4 seasons, all this guy has done is excel. What a slap to the face of a true pro. If the Sox trade Jose Abreu they are really an ungrateful, ill informed front office. Keep him and sign him 3 years 36 to 39 million. Then let him walk if he must. Case closed.

[GreenSox]

I’ll just say thar I think they should try to trade him, and I don’t buy this leadership stuff

[The Ultimate Champion]

The guy is paid a lot of money to play baseball.  It's not like he's been driving jerry reinsdorf around in a limo all day, kissing his feet, shining his shoes, cutting his steak for him, etc.  It's also not like he's been selling hotdogs in the stands.  Don't feel too sorry for him.

The only reason Jose is still here is because Hahn never was offered a haul for him.  If that had happened, he'd have been gone a long time ago.  He's been a good player and a great leader on a shitty team.  Now he should go win elsewhere.  

I like Abreu a lot, but I want to see him traded.  I want the Sox to give ABs to someone else who they can make a decision on.  I want the Sox to get prepared for 2021.  Get started now.  Can Collins actually develop an approach?  I'm impressed with the speed of his bat and how long he can see the ball, but he has no approach at all.  Something has to give there.  Even giving AJ Reed a shot, that's fine also. It's also fine to put Eloy there a bit, give Yermin Mercedes a shot, etc.  It's fine to use the DH slot to rest people and make some decisions on our 4th OF going forward (i.e. Engel vs. Cordell).  There are some ways to use Jose's ABs that at least help the decision making process this year.  Then, next year, hopefully we'll have a couple prospects to bat there until Vaughn arrives, but I think Vaughn may be a midseason guy in 2020.

Get some more pieces for Abreu, move on, etc.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I think his trade value is fairly close to nothing unless the Sox pay pretty much all of his remaining salary (which won’t happen)

 

Love the guy, but Jose was a dinosaur in today’s game before his bat started to regress. Now he’s a DH who struggles to keep his OPS above .800. I really think he would struggle to find a full time job and multi year deal on the open market. 

 

[vilehoopster]

6 hours ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

The guy is paid a lot of money to play baseball.  It's not like he's been driving jerry reinsdorf around in a limo all day, kissing his feet, shining his shoes, cutting his steak for him, etc.  It's also not like he's been selling hotdogs in the stands.  Don't feel too sorry for him.

The only reason Jose is still here is because Hahn never was offered a haul for him.  If that had happened, he'd have been gone a long time ago.  He's been a good player and a great leader on a shitty team.  Now he should go win elsewhere.  

I like Abreu a lot, but I want to see him traded.  I want the Sox to give ABs to someone else who they can make a decision on.  I want the Sox to get prepared for 2021.  Get started now.  Can Collins actually develop an approach?  I'm impressed with the speed of his bat and how long he can see the ball, but he has no approach at all.  Something has to give there.  Even giving AJ Reed a shot, that's fine also. It's also fine to put Eloy there a bit, give Yermin Mercedes a shot, etc.  It's fine to use the DH slot to rest people and make some decisions on our 4th OF going forward (i.e. Engel vs. Cordell).  There are some ways to use Jose's ABs that at least help the decision making process this year.  Then, next year, hopefully we'll have a couple prospects to bat there until Vaughn arrives, but I think Vaughn may be a midseason guy in 2020.

Get some more pieces for Abreu, move on, etc.

1st of all you don’t like Abreu. That is a so obvious from this entire thread. Really. You’d rather give Reed a shot, REED? so you’d send an all-star off for somebody’s low level prospects. This entire thread is total BS.

I also want to be prepared for 2021, but I want to prepare for next week and next month. I want to prepare for tonight’s game.

I say it over and over: I like it when the Sox win. Sox wins make me happy and Sox loses make me pissy. But when I read stuff like this on here, I think I am a minority. You guys would rather watch some low A level prospect improve his batting average from .247 to .253 than see the Sox have a winning home stand.

I don’t begin to understand what motivates a thread like this. It’s easier for me to believe this thread was started by an Indian’s or Royal’s fan trying to undermine the Sox than a real White Sox fan.

That this thread shows up the night after Abreu had an RBI double and a 2-run homer shows you have no sense of timing or Abreu’s value.

One good thing is that I just read MLB.com’s list of top 20 trade rumors and, thankfully, No White Sox were mentioned, not Abreu or Colome. 

Thank goodness the Sox front office seems to like winning more than whatever alternative the guys agreeing with this thread seem to enjoy.

[poppysox]

In another year or two we win with or without Jose.  Until that time we probably do better having him hold down the fort.  Two year extension would work.   If you can't reach an extension for 12-14 million I trade him.  Would never make him a qualifying offer...he would take it.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I think his trade value is fairly close to nothing unless the Sox pay pretty much all of his remaining salary (which won’t happen)

 

Love the guy, but Jose was a dinosaur in today’s game before his bat started to regress. Now he’s a DH who struggles to keep his OPS above .800. I really think he would struggle to find a full time job and multi year deal on the open market. 

 

Statcast would disagree with you.  The quality of contact has been great this year, with Jose posting the highest barrel %, exit velocity, & hard hit rate over his past five seasons.  They actually think he’s been unlucky this year, with his wOBA 22 points below expectations.  The problem with Jose is he’s drawing less walks and making less contact than usual.  He may be selling out other parts of his game to gain more power, which with the juiced ball may make sense.  IMO, he’s still a ~ wRC+ 120 hitter and that still has plenty of value.  He should be moved to DH if retained though, that I agree with.  And I wouldn’t give him more than a two year extension.

[TheFutureIsNear]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Statcast would disagree with you.  The quality of contact has been great this year, with Jose posting the highest barrel %, exit velocity, & hard hit rate over his past five seasons.  They actually think he’s been unlucky this year, with his wOBA 22 points below expectations.  The problem with Jose is he’s drawing less walks and making less contact than usual.  He may be selling out other parts of his game to gain more power, which with the juiced ball may make sense.  IMO, he’s still a ~ wRC+ 120 hitter and that still has plenty of value.  He should be moved to DH if retained though, that I agree with.  And I wouldn’t give him more than a two year extension.

His wRC+ is 109 right now and last year it was 114. 

 

His OPS right now is .810 and last year it was .798

 

We’re talking about a nearly 950 AB sample size. At that point I’m willing to say Jose is what he is

Edited July 23, 2019 by TheFutureIsNear

[SCCWS]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Statcast would disagree with you.  The quality of contact has been great this year, with Jose posting the highest barrel %, exit velocity, & hard hit rate over his past five seasons.  They actually think he’s been unlucky this year, with his wOBA 22 points below expectations.  The problem with Jose is he’s drawing less walks and making less contact than usual.  He may be selling out other parts of his game to gain more power, which with the juiced ball may make sense.  IMO, he’s still a ~ wRC+ 120 hitter and that still has plenty of value.  He should be moved to DH if retained though, that I agree with.  And I wouldn’t give him more than a two year extension.

 

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Statcast would disagree with you.  The quality of contact has been great this year, with Jose posting the highest barrel %, exit velocity, & hard hit rate over his past five seasons.  They actually think he’s been unlucky this year, with his wOBA 22 points below expectations.  The problem with Jose is he’s drawing less walks and making less contact than usual.  He may be selling out other parts of his game to gain more power, which with the juiced ball may make sense.  IMO, he’s still a ~ wRC+ 120 hitter and that still has plenty of value.  He should be moved to DH if retained though, that I agree with.  And I wouldn’t give him more than a two year extension.

Only issue is the future of Eloy. He needs to play everyday. Is he a LF on a contending team or does he have to move to a less vulnerable spot.  Would Eloy be as good as Abreu is now at !B? If Hahn feels Eloy has to move, then Abreu may be in the way. I would hope Abreu could go to DH and If Eloy has to move from LF then he go learn 1B.   

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, SCCWS said:

 

Only issue is the future of Eloy. He needs to play everyday. Is he a LF on a contending team or does he have to move to a less vulnerable spot.  Would Eloy be as good as Abreu is now at !B? If Hahn feels Eloy has to move, then Abreu may be in the way. I would hope Abreu could go to DH and If Eloy has to move from LF then he go learn 1B.   

Vaughn is the future at 1B, so that won’t be an option for Eloy.  And Hahn has made it perfectly clear they have no interest in moving him from LF anytime soon.  Down the road that may change and by then Abreu will be long gone.

[Moan4Yoan]

I expect the Sox not to move Abreu so I won’t be disappointed.  If I was the GM, I would move him.  You can always resign him in the offseason.

[poppysox]

14 hours ago, The Ultimate Champion said:

This is the last thread I am going to make for now.  Simple poll.  I answered Yes all 3 times.  I love Jose's contributions but his leadership -- if necessary -- should be replaced by a veteran bench player, like an Ian Kinsler in a bench role, or something like that.  We don't need to give him ABs any more.  He shouldn't be the 1B or DH on the next Sox team that contends for a pennant IMO.  

I see from your posts that you are something of a contrarian.  Good to get a different point of view.?

[ron883]

Yes.

[greg775]

18 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

1st of all you don’t like Abreu. That is a so obvious from this entire thread. Really. You’d rather give Reed a shot, REED? so you’d send an all-star off for somebody’s low level prospects. This entire thread is total BS.

I also want to be prepared for 2021, but I want to prepare for next week and next month. I want to prepare for tonight’s game.

I say it over and over: I like it when the Sox win. Sox wins make me happy and Sox loses make me pissy. But when I read stuff like this on here, I think I am a minority. You guys would rather watch some low A level prospect improve his batting average from .247 to .253 than see the Sox have a winning home stand.

I don’t begin to understand what motivates a thread like this. It’s easier for me to believe this thread was started by an Indian’s or Royal’s fan trying to undermine the Sox than a real White Sox fan.

That this thread shows up the night after Abreu had an RBI double and a 2-run homer shows you have no sense of timing or Abreu’s value.

One good thing is that I just read MLB.com’s list of top 20 trade rumors and, thankfully, No White Sox were mentioned, not Abreu or Colome. 

Thank goodness the Sox front office seems to like winning more than whatever alternative the guys agreeing with this thread seem to enjoy.

I love you vile. You and I are fans of winning. You are what's right about sports IMO.

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, greg775 said:

I love you vile. You and I are fans of winning. You are what's right about sports IMO.

Why do you hate Abreu so much? The guy's been on losing teams every single year of his career,  I never expected you to come down so blatantly hard on him.