Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: You mean guys like Bummer,Semien, Reed, Nate Jones, Hector Santiago to name a few? Yes. Those weren't Hostetler, those were Laumann's picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: Yes. Those weren't Hostetler, those were Laumann's picks. Hostetler didn‘t come out of nowhere, he has been involved with those picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Their issues are much more on the development side in my opinion 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Burdi was used almost as a bonus pick. They were dreaming on using in him in September and October the year they drafted him. It was a stupid pick, but that was their mindset in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Theo has nothing to show for literally 1/2 his MLB drafs in his career. Don't believe me? Go take a look. Even when he was unreal in Boston he had drafts where NO ONE contributed - same with the cubs now. That's how the draft is in baseball. A lot of swings and a lot of misses. When you hit, you just have to make it count. Theo has nothing to show for pretty much all of his drafts with the Cubs outside of Bryant. The one other top player he traded to the Sox(Cease) What I ask for is to get one guy that looks like a player, per year, on average. You can have 4 shitty drafts and an awesome one where you get 5 guys and that is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mqr said: Their issues are much more on the development side in my opinion I couldn't fire Hostetler without knowing how much of the blame to put here, to be honest. You bring up a really good point. Either way, Getz, Hostetler or both are not doing a good job. Edited July 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Yes. Those weren't Hostetler, those were Laumann's picks. Hostetler has had the job for 3 years and you're asking where his successes are when the average draftee takes like 4 years just to reach the big leagues. Come on Jack. And then you give him no credit for the successes before he got the title yet he was second in command for those. Edited July 24, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Hostetler has had the job for 3 years and you're asking where his successes are when the average draftee takes like 4 years just to reach the big leagues. Come on Jack. He's had 4 drafts so far, 2016-19. He took a lot of college guys high and they should be here more quickly. That is why I'm critical. A college player should be in the bigs in 2-3 seasons. It is time to start evaluating his 2016 draft and it looks like crap. Burger is a lost cause, and that is just bad luck. I give him a pass for that one. Edited July 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: He's had 4 drafts, 2016-19. He took a lot of college guys high and they should be here more quickly. That is why I'm critical. And one has already reached the big leagues and the other two died. Firing a scouting director after three years would be like bringing in a new college coach and then firing him before any of his own recruits reach their junior year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Hostetler has had the job for 3 years and you're asking where his successes are when the average draftee takes like 4 years just to reach the big leagues. Come on Jack. And then you give him no credit for the successes before he got the title yet he was second in command for those. The jury is still out but I'm not going to give Nick a bunch of credit for taking Vaughn and Madrigal. They both fell into the Sox' lap for both BPA and best organisational fit into the rebuild timeline as polished college juniors. As Parkman noted overall you'd expect to hit on at least 1-2 guys later in the draft regardless of round just almost by dumb luck. I don't think the early returns are that great on Nick's first three drafts but it is early. As for Burger, @ptatc will yell at me but if you take a "bad body" guy that high you better be sure he's got the work ethic and willingness to cut weight to be a factor. It does not appear that Jake Burger is a "lifer", "grinder" or whatever it takes because it appears that he is not even a pro baseball player at the moment. Not everybody has to be Kopech on social media and post mountain climbs and barrel tosses and trap bar deadlifts but Burger's twitter reads like a damn NEET, and that's not even really mentioning WTF he did (we'll never know) to rupture his achilles again. Who even does that as pro athlete in their young 20s? Edited July 24, 2019 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Theo has nothing to show for literally 1/2 his MLB drafs in his career. Don't believe me? Go take a look. Even when he was unreal in Boston he had drafts where NO ONE contributed - same with the cubs now. That's how the draft is in baseball. A lot of swings and a lot of misses. When you hit, you just have to make it count. What was his average draft position? If you're regularly getting starting big leaguers from 1/2 your drafts and you're a playoff team every year already, so that you're drafting after #25, that's elite performance. Getting good players in 1/2 your drafts during a 10 year playoff run would be exceptional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: The jury is still out but I'm not going to give Nick a bunch of credit for taking Vaughn and Madrigal. They both fell into the Sox' lap for both BPA and best organisational fit into the rebuild timeline as polished college juniors. As Parkman noted overall you'd expect to hit on at least 1-2 guys later in the draft regardless of round just almost by dumb luck. I don't think the early returns are that great on Nick's first three drafts but it is early. THANK YOU!!!! That is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: The jury is still out but I'm not going to give Nick a bunch of credit for taking Vaughn and Madrigal. They both fell into the Sox' lap for both BPA and best organisational fit into the rebuild timeline as polished college juniors. As Parkman noted overall you'd expect to hit on at least 1-2 guys later in the draft regardless of round just almost by dumb luck. I don't think the early returns are that great on Nick's first three drafts but it is early. Not giving a guy credit for drafting a 5'6 2nd baseman with the 4th pick in the draft is nuts. Easy to call him the BPA as an outsider. Much harder to pull the trigger on a kid that fit absolutely zero molds of success. He went out on the limb there. Vaughn wasnt easy either as a RR under 6 foot 1st baseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: What was his average draft position? If you're regularly getting starting big leaguers from 1/2 your drafts and you're a playoff team every year already, so that you're drafting after #25, that's elite performance. Getting good players in 1/2 your drafts during a 10 year playoff run would be exceptional. This would make sense if Theo wasnt overspending slot heavily every year to get a top 10 talent at the end of the first round - whoever fell, theo would gobble them up and pay the penalty. The sox arent drafting lance Broadway's anymore. Theyve made significant progress with their draft strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: He's had 4 drafts so far, 2016-19. He took a lot of college guys high and they should be here more quickly. That is why I'm critical. A college player should be in the bigs in 2-3 seasons. He has a different philosophy in that he values OBP/high floor players whereas Laumann is the exact opposite. That is not to say he doesn't take chances on high ceiling guys later. Edited July 24, 2019 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: THANK YOU!!!! That is my point. But it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas_Ventura_Roberts Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Based on Baseball America's numbers, 50% of 1st rounders will turn out to be relatively good, 33% of 2nd rounders, 25% of 3rd rounders, 20% of 4th rounders and so forth. If one were to just go by the numbers, one would probably have to wait 8 plus years to fairly grade a Scouting Director based on the results of how players did. Of course, the internal people have more than just the final results to grade someone on and don't have to wait 8 years. In addition, the first draft of a scouting director may reflect as much of the prior regime as the new scouting regime, and that probably makes it even a bit more ambiguous to judge if only using a few years of results. Again, that is as an outsider. I'm sure there are qualitative considerations that the insiders can evaluate in addition to the results metrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Not giving a guy credit for drafting a 5'6 2nd baseman with the 4th pick in the draft is nuts. Easy to call him the BPA as an outsider. Much harder to pull the trigger on a kid that fit absolutely zero molds of success. He went out on the limb there. Vaughn wasnt easy either as a RR under 6 foot 1st baseman. come on man there was some talk madrigal could go 1st overall. There were many types that absolutely loved his high floor. He fell because the clubs in front were either scared by his stature at 1-1,1-2,1-3 or were looking for pitching or a higher ceiling guy to fit their timelines. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/could-a-5-foot-8-second-baseman-be-drafted-first-overall/ Edited July 24, 2019 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, Thomas_Ventura_Roberts said: Based on Baseball America's numbers, 50% of 1st rounders will turn out to be relatively good, 33% of 2nd rounders, 25% of 3rd rounders, 20% of 4th rounders and so forth. If one were to just go by the numbers, one would probably have to wait 8 plus years to fairly grade a Scouting Director based on the results of how players did. Of course, the internal people have more than just the final results to grade someone on and don't have to wait 8 years. In addition, the first draft of a scouting director may reflect as much of the prior regime as the new scouting regime, and that probably makes it even a bit more ambiguous to judge if only using a few years of results. Again, that is as an outsider. I'm sure there are qualitative considerations that the insiders can evaluate in addition to the results metrics. Say what? What is relatively good? These numbers are certainly outdated. I have the values of every pick somewhere - let me find it. 20% of 4th round picks are not relatively good unless relatively good is maybe reaching the big leagues one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Not giving a guy credit for drafting a 5'6 2nd baseman with the 4th pick in the draft is nuts. Easy to call him the BPA as an outsider. Much harder to pull the trigger on a kid that fit absolutely zero molds of success. He went out on the limb there. Vaughn wasnt easy either as a RR under 6 foot 1st baseman. The Australians are like, WTF, mate??? Edited July 24, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: come on man Not sure what you're saying come on too. People don't draft 5'6 2nd baseman in the top 5. You're going against the typical mold and taking a chance on a kid. Madrigal was the best position player in the draft for my money, but he didn't get drafted that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Would be more interested to see who we would have picked if we were bumped up one from Fulmer's spot (Benintendi), one or two from Burger's spot in 2017 (Hiura/Adell)....could have picked Kyle Lewis, Groome, Kirilloff or Whitley in 2016 instead of Collins at 10. Obviously, every team would have picked Walker Buehler if they had it to do over...but what did they miss? My question is were those the choices, (Benintendi, and either Hiura or especially Adell)...? If not, why? We all know that Hostetler has said that he would have taken Collins 1-1, but why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Not sure what you're saying come on too. People don't draft 5'6 2nd baseman in the top 5. You're going against the typical mold and taking a chance on a kid. Madrigal was the best position player in the draft for my money, but he didn't get drafted that way. There were a lot of people who agreed with you. Neither Vaughn nor Madrigal were "go out on a limb" picks. That is what we're saying "Come on" to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: We all know that Hostetler has said that he would have taken Collins 1-1, but why? This is obviously a lie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Would be more interested to see who we would have picked if we were bumped up one from Fulmer's spot (Benintendi), one or two from Burger's spot in 2017 (Hiura/Adell)....could have picked Kyle Lewis, Groome, Kirilloff or Whitley in 2016 instead of Collins at 10. Obviously, every team would have picked Walker Buehler if they had it to do over...but what did they miss? My question is were those the choices, (Benintendi, and either Hiura or especially Adell)...? If not, why? We all know that Hostetler has said that he would have taken Collins 1-1, but why? About the 1-1 talk: You are lending too much credence to draft fluff pieces. And what‘s not to like about Collins as an amateur: a guy who might stick at catcher with ++power Edited July 24, 2019 by GermanSoxFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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