harkness99 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 The problem isn't winning or losing.. the problem is that after all this losing, the young talent is still unproven or non-existent. And we have hardly any pitching worth a shit in the minors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, Baron said: Your assuming I believe they have no hope which makes the argument stupid. There's always hope. Just because I think our General Manager does more harm than good doesn't mean that eventually someone won't take over that won't turn this team completely around. I've been a Chicago Bears fan all my life. In a short time that team went from a laughing stock with Marc Trestman and Phil Emery to Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace. Is Jerry as quick to pull the trigger as George is for the Bears? Absolutely not. But he'll get there at some point. Until then I'll be along for the ride with the players that are getting sick of losing and are trying hard to win. Excuse me but I just absolutely hate the post police. You want to know what will change in this forum? When the team finally decides it's time to win. Give the "look what I'm doing and you'll be fine!" stuff a break. I don't think anyone here needs to be told how to run their life or when to talk about their favorite team. Yeah, you totally missed the point. b****ing & whining about the same thing over & over again <> talking about their favorite team. Threads can no longer stay on topic without a select group of posters coming in and totally derailing them with the same bullshit. Either you don’t come here much or are completely oblivious, because the quality of the board taken a hit and we’ve lost many good posters who are simply sick of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 52 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: They would have had one in 1990 if it existed at the time. Should we blame the organization on that too? That was 29 years ago. But they did fire the GM after that season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Yeah, you totally missed the point. b****ing & whining about the same thing over & over again <> talking about their favorite team. Threads can no longer stay on topic without a select group of posters coming in and totally derailing them with the same bullshit. Either you don’t come here much or are completely oblivious, because the quality of the board taken a hit and we’ve lost many good posters who are simply sick of it. If your talking about completely random threads for sure that point is well taken. Even sometimes I roll my eyes at some of the comments in the threads. Edited July 29, 2019 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 41 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: I’m not ok with mediocrity, either. You seem to discount 2008 as a successful season. Was it not? Because that division title set the tone for the next three seasons, two of which were near misses. Robin’s first season was a near miss. Exactly what should they have done differently from 2006-2012? Really going for it. Not hoping for pupedreams like Erstad to help them win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: That was 29 years ago. But they did fire the GM after that season. So I want to be clear about this. You asked me why they never won a WC in that timeframe and when I point to where they would have won one had it existed, your position is...it was too long ago in the timeframe you asked about? they would have also won the second wildcard had it existed in 2006. Edited July 29, 2019 by Greg Hibbard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 19 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said: Yes, we've gone 4-13 in the last 17 and it hasn't been pretty. Yes, it is hard to watch teams like Minnesota and Oakland absolutely trounce us. Yes, it's worrisome to watch guys like Giolito and Cease struggle, sometimes mightily. However, I think we need to get a collective grip on what real swings of a baseball season are, even for competitive teams, because I think the board has taken a sharp dive towards unbearable lately with some of the sky-is-falling/rebuild has failed talk, especially in game threads. The very best teams struggle to win 60% of their games in no small part because even great playoff teams have 20 game stretches where they play like absolute garbage. I urge you to consider the following before condemning the entire front office, managerial staff, and organization for what's been going on recently: That currently, even with the terrifying bad stretch of baseball we've been playing, this team is still on pace to win about 73 games. How many wins did you have them down for at the beginning of the season? I had them down for about 74 and I considered that optimistic. That the following good teams have had the following awful stretches of baseball this year: Yankees: 4-8 games 2 through 13 of the season, and then 3-8 in early June. Red Sox: 6-13 through first 19 games of the season (are 12 over now) Minnesota: 12-16 stretch recently. Houston: lost 7 in a row and 9 of 11. Oakland: started the season 14-19 and are 12 over now. Those are currently the five best teams in the American League, and they've all had 2-3 week stretches where they have played WAY below their ability. Not because they suck, but because that's variance, that's baseball, and those are stretches. Yes, 4-13 is a different beast, but 4-13 for a team that is expected to win maybe 77 games at best is similar to 8-12 for a team that expects to win 90. I think what's also been lost in a lot of talk recently too is that I see little mention of people putting into context that we DFA'd our DH without an ML replacement, have been playing without TA for a while, and Eloy went down, and much more mention about how this is failing. We are in a bad stretch. At some point this season, this team will snap out of it and suddenly with 4 in a row or 7 of 8 and that won't make any sense either. Because that's baseball. I still think we are on track. Really like your post. You are comparing winning teams though that seem to rebound. We don't have the starting pitching to have a serious win streak. The losses bother me because some of them are serious ass kickin's. It's a bit different losing a game by a run or two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 42 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: So I want to be clear about this. You asked me why they never won a WC in that timeframe and when I point to where they would have won one had it existed, your position is...it was too long ago in the timeframe you asked about? they would have also won the second wildcard had it existed in 2006. Right because it didn’t exist, and it was 29 years ago. They have had plenty of opportunities since, but you have an excuse for that. Why doesn’t 1991,1992,1995,1996,1997,1998,1999,2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2010,2011,2012,2013,2014,2015,2016,2017,2018,2019 matter? 43 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: So I want to be clear about this. You asked me why they never won a WC in that timeframe and when I point to where they would have won one had it existed, your position is...it was too long ago in the timeframe you asked about? they would have also won the second wildcard had it existed in 2006. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 I can’t believe I’m arguing with any White Sox fan about whether 1990-2012 was a successful enough 23 years. They sported a winning percentage which translated to winning 86 out of 162 every single year. They had premiere, homegrown players, including the best right handed hitter I’ve ever seen and several bona fide stars. Three of those players from that era have their numbers retired in the stadium. Compare it any other 23 year stretch in this franchise’s history outside of the initial 20 years and get back to me with a timeframe we did better. Outside of a fluke pennant in ‘59, we were a competitive joke for the 60 years between the 19 series and the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) Making the argument that the Sox could have made the playoffs in 1990 and 2006 if the Wild Card existed back then is convoluted and ridiculous. You can’t win something that doesn’t exist. The rules were that they had to win the division back then. Second place is second place. I’m surprised you didn’t also try to argue that the Sox would have won the World Series in the 1994 season had it not been for the strike. Edited July 30, 2019 by Moan4Yoan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) There used to be a poster here, Thad Bosley, that knew what was what. RIP Thad Bosley. Edited July 30, 2019 by Hatchetman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Greg Hibbard said: I can’t believe I’m arguing with any White Sox fan about whether 1990-2012 was a successful enough 23 years. They sported a winning percentage which translated to winning 86 out of 162 every single year. They had premiere, homegrown players, including the best right handed hitter I’ve ever seen and several bona fide stars. Three of those players from that era have their numbers retired in the stadium. Compare it any other 23 year stretch in this franchise’s history outside of the initial 20 years and get back to me with a timeframe we did better. Outside of a fluke pennant in ‘59, we were a competitive joke for the 60 years between the 19 series and the 80s. Might want to check out 1951-1967. Over.. 500 every year, and most of that time they played 154 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Might want to check out 1951-1967. Over.. 500 every year, and most of that time they played 154 games. Yep, just don't get Hawkeroo reminiscing about that summer of '67 again...great manager back then too. The uniforms, the stadium at the height of its glory, the storied players like Aparicio, Fox and Pierce who were almost unimpeachable on or off the field of play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan of Steel Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 11 hours ago, Dick Allen said: I don't think all of the board would have thought 18 games ago the team was ahead of schedule, especially if you looked back at the schedules 2 or 3 years ago. They had a very soft first half schedule. The second half is a bit tougher. Their run differential which Steve Stone, now Mr. Optimist likes to use to say some other teams could be playing above their heads, was and is one of the worst in baseball. Beating Kc and Baltimore, and Detroit, while nice, and needing to be done, doesn't put a team ahead in a rebuild. You are, if the goal is to win championships, expected to be able to hang wjth good teams on a nightly basis. They don't seem very close to that right now. And JR, RH, and KW, whose bad decisions led a bad team to rebuild, are still calling the shots. That is pretty unprecedented. Bull. Just 100% absolute Grade-A bull. From June 10th to the All-Star Break, that was the stretch that most claimed was going to send the White Sox into the cellar. That stretch had: - 2 games v. the Nats (57-49) *1st place NL WC - 4 games v. the Yankees (67-38) *1st place AL East / Best record in AL / 2nd best record overall - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central - 3 games v. the Rangers (53-53) - 3 games v. the Red Sox (59-48) - 3 games v. the Twins (64-41) *1st place AL Central / 4th best record overall - 3 games v. the Tigers (30-71) - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central That's 22 games, of which only 3 came against a team below .500. Hell, only 6 of them came against teams that are not currently either in the playoff hunt or at the head of the pack. Don't feed us this crap that they had a soft schedule coming off the toughest stretch of the season and making through it with a respectable record. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Dan of Steel said: Bull. Just 100% absolute Grade-A bull. From June 10th to the All-Star Break, that was the stretch that most claimed was going to send the White Sox into the cellar. That stretch had: - 2 games v. the Nats (57-49) *1st place NL WC - 4 games v. the Yankees (67-38) *1st place AL East / Best record in AL / 2nd best record overall - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central - 3 games v. the Rangers (53-53) - 3 games v. the Red Sox (59-48) - 3 games v. the Twins (64-41) *1st place AL Central / 4th best record overall - 3 games v. the Tigers (30-71) - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central That's 22 games, of which only 3 came against a team below .500. Hell, only 6 of them came against teams that are not currently either in the playoff hunt or at the head of the pack. Don't feed us this crap that they had a soft schedule coming off the toughest stretch of the season and making through it with a respectable record. Dick Allen’s point regarding the Sox run differential is spot on. It was always awful and that will always be a major roadblock to sustained winning and an overall winning record. It’s a pretty good predictor of whether a team will be successful or not. The Sox run differential had this team doomed regardless of what you think. Edited July 30, 2019 by Moan4Yoan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dan of Steel said: Bull. Just 100% absolute Grade-A bull. From June 10th to the All-Star Break, that was the stretch that most claimed was going to send the White Sox into the cellar. That stretch had: - 2 games v. the Nats (57-49) *1st place NL WC - 4 games v. the Yankees (67-38) *1st place AL East / Best record in AL / 2nd best record overall - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central - 3 games v. the Rangers (53-53) - 3 games v. the Red Sox (59-48) - 3 games v. the Twins (64-41) *1st place AL Central / 4th best record overall - 3 games v. the Tigers (30-71) - 2 games v. the Cubs (56-49) *Tied for 1st place in NL Central That's 22 games, of which only 3 came against a team below .500. Hell, only 6 of them came against teams that are not currently either in the playoff hunt or at the head of the pack. Don't feed us this crap that they had a soft schedule coming off the toughest stretch of the season and making through it with a respectable record. Uh, the season started at the end of March, not June 10th. They have already played KC 16 times. They are done with Baltimore, done with Seattle, done with Toronto. Their overall schedule has been soft. Pick and choose all you want, that was a tough stretch, but the fact remains, you would rather have them face KC and Detroit the rest of the way than Cleveland and Minnesota if you are looking for wins. And who said the Sox were headed to the cellar? Have you looked at Detroit and KC? Edited July 30, 2019 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35thstreetswarm Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Uh, the season started at the end of March, not June 10th. They already played KC 16 times. They are done with Baltimore, done with Seattle, done with Toronto. Their overall schedule has been soft. Pick and choose all you want, that was a tough stretch, but the fact remains, you would rather have them face KC and Detroit the rest of the way rather than Cleveland and Minnesota. And who said the Sox were headed to the cellar? Have you looked at Detroit and KC? Well, the definition of “picking and choosing” is saying things like “beating Detroit and Kc and Baltimore, while nice...doesn’t put a team ahead in a rebuild.” You could have “picked” beating Minnesota or “chosen” beating New York for example, but that would not fit your narrative. Instead you picked a few bad teams to imply our wins all came against bad teams and we got beaten up by the good teams we played, which is not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Well, the definition of “picking and choosing” is saying things like “beating Detroit and Kc and Baltimore, while nice...doesn’t put a team ahead in a rebuild.” You could have “picked” beating Minnesota or “chosen” beating New York for example, but that would not fit your narrative. Instead you picked a few bad teams to imply our wins all came against bad teams and we got beaten up by the good teams we played, which is not true. They have been beating Minnesota? I went by their entire schedule. That is not picking and choosing. It's been soft. Sorry that is a fact, and they still have one of the worst run differentials in MLB. The White Sox are great. They get ripped off, they only get to play Detroit and Kc 38 times. They would have made the wildcard in 1990 if they had one, and would have made the second wildcard in 2006. if it existed. A fan could not ask for more. Edited July 30, 2019 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: The White Sox are great. They get ripped off, they only get to play Detroit and Kc 38 times. They would have made the wildcard in 1990 if they had one, and would have made the second wildcard in 2006. if it existed. A fan could not ask for more. Nobody wants to win more than JR. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: Nobody wants to win more than JR. Sure he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 13 hours ago, Hatchetman said: There used to be a poster here, Thad Bosley, that knew what was what. RIP Thad Bosley. Thad is still here, fan o faust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: Thad is still here, fan o faust Oh shit, I had no idea they were the same poster. Know I understand why him and @southsider2k5 (RIP) had so much beef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Oh shit, I had no idea they were the same poster. Know I understand why him and @southsider2k5 (RIP) had so much beef. A lot of posters names reverted to old board names when we converted. Southsider2k5 still alive and well also lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 17 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: Thad is still here, fan o faust Oh, good I was worried he died or something. Dick and SS2k5 used to badger him endlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hatchetman said: Oh, good I was worried he died or something. Dick and SS2k5 used to badger him endlessly. That goes both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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