Hahn expects aggressive offseason

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

What does that mean? All.of the potential depth they had in 2017 has evaporated due to mostly injuries and a bit of underperformance(Hansen/Rutherford) 

Why does Rutherford get so much guff? Why not throw Gonzalez and Basabe in there with him at least. Most people ranked both of them higher than Rutherford at least on Future Sox. Not just aiming this at you.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why does Rutherford get so much guff? Why not throw Gonzalez and Basabe in there with him at least. Most people ranked both of them higher than Rutherford at least on Future Sox. Not just aiming this at you.

I'm with you actually. I don't think Basabe underperformed, he had a chance to crack the T100 if he didn't get injured this spring. He was in the futures game last year and performed well. Basabe is in the injury department. Gonzalez I'd agree with you about. Rutherford gets a ton of flak because he was once a T40 guy and has not developed as much as everyone hoped. Honestly  I think Rutherford has the best shot out of the Sox OF other than Robert and Basabe. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

It was a bad offer and was handled horribly by the front office, but I still believe the outrage over the vesting options is unwarranted. 550 PAs really isn't that much. All you're asking is that he plays ~125 games or more. 

I mean, I can't think of any other examples of any players that Machado might have been familiar with and known well failing to get to a 525 PA vesting option at age 32 after being acquired by the White Sox, can you? 

[Jose Abreu]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

I mean, I can't think of any other examples of any players that Machado might have been familiar with and known well failing to get to a 525 PA vesting option at age 32 after being acquired by the White Sox, can you? 

I have a hard time believing that Machado would hit .178/.275/.301 in his age 32 season

[Balta1701]

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

I have a hard time believing that Machado would hit .178/.275/.301 in his age 32 season

Would certainly hope not...but Machado would be 34 and 35 in his vesting seasons, and we'd be talking about $35 million and not $9 million. 

These guys aren't dumb, they know you only want those to be option years so that you have a way out.

[Jose Abreu]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Would certainly hope not...but Machado would be 34 and 35 in his vesting seasons, and we'd be talking about $35 million and not $9 million. 

These guys aren't dumb, they know you only want those to be option years so that you have a way out.

Sorry, I did mean 34.

And yeah, I 100% agree that the offer was inadequate and those years should have been guaranteed. All I'm saying is that, as long as his production wouldn't fall off a cliff and/or he misses a third of the season or more, I think the options would vest. Which I suppose makes the non-guarantee even worse. 

[Jack Parkman]

So, anyone ok with targeting Moustakas this offseason? This lineup needs a LH bat and I'd rather have him playing  1B than Abreu at this point. If Abreu wants to come back cheap as the DH that would be nice. It's going to be hard to get a LH bat for RF without making a trade. Nimmo is still an option. I think it's likely Collins is on the team next year. If Abreu is on a cheap 1 year deal he can move to a bench role when Vaughn is ready. 

Puig, Abreu and Moustakas should all be fairly inexpensive options to round out the lineup, and Nimmo is a backup buy low option and none of these guys should prevent the Sox from going after the top pitchers on the market. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[GermanSoxFan]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

So, anyone ok with targeting Moustakas this offseason? This lineup needs a LH bat and I'd rather have him playing  1B than Abreu at this point. If Abreu wants to come back cheap as the DH that would be nice. It's going to be hard to get a LH bat for RF without making a trade. Nimmo is still an option. I think it's likely Collins is on the team next year. 

I'd be shocked if the Brewers don't pick up his option, especially with Travis Shaw cratering.

[BackDoorBreach]

16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

So, anyone ok with targeting Moustakas this offseason? This lineup needs a LH bat and I'd rather have him playing  1B than Abreu at this point. If Abreu wants to come back cheap as the DH that would be nice. It's going to be hard to get a LH bat for RF without making a trade. Nimmo is still an option. I think it's likely Collins is on the team next year. If Abreu is on a cheap 1 year deal he can move to a bench role when Vaughn is ready. 

Puig, Abreu and Moustakas should all be fairly inexpensive options to round out the lineup, and Nimmo is a backup buy low option and none of these guys should prevent the Sox from going after the top pitchers on the market. 

Why do we think the Mets are trading Nimmo?  We don't have any pieces to trade for him anyways.

[caulfield12]

Why would Moustakas want to play first before he really has to?

$3 million is an expensive buyout, so they’re going to pay him $11 million next year unless the Brewers completely fall apart down the stretch.  Even then, there’s no replacement option with Shaw falling off.

Its not like they’re going to rebuild in the final year of many contracts in 2020.

[Bob Sacamano]

27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why would Moustakas want to play first before he really has to?

$3 million is an expensive buyout, so they’re going to pay him $11 million next year unless the Brewers completely fall apart down the stretch.  Even then, there’s no replacement option with Shaw falling off.

Its not like they’re going to rebuild in the final year of many contracts in 2020.

It might be his only offer, or best offer (to play 1B). He did sign as a 2B this year.

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

It might be his only offer, or best offer (to play 1B). He did sign as a 2B this year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4892&position=3B

He's already had a better season this year than his last three and is still just 30...will be 31 next year.

If nobody needs a 3-3.5 fWAR (based on him finishing the sane way he’s played four month) third baseman, something is trrribly wrong with the industry.

[spiderman]

On 7/31/2019 at 5:44 PM, KrankinSox said:

Will they put their money where their mouth is this time?

I'm really hoping they can add 1 front-line starter and maybe 2. It will be interesting to see how much they're willing to dip into their front-line prospects for one of these.

[spiderman]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:30 PM, gusguyman said:

What an epitome of a Hahn quote. "Logical to see a heightened level of aggressiveness this offseason."

1) This doesn't even say we WILL see a more aggressive offseason, just that it would make sense to

2) Heightened level of aggressiveness is a relative term, so it only means more aggressive than last year, which could still not be close to aggressive enough in the fans eyes

The dude is a master at not actually committing to anything he sounds like he is. I'd pay a pretty penny to hear his wedding vows.

After the last off-season, when they clearly had a ceiling, I can't blame him. They did offer a ton of money up, but they were limited, ultimately had a ceiling and got outbid by another mid-market type team in SD. What's going to happen if NY, the Cubs or a team in LA decide they have interest in a player the White Sox like?

[spiderman]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:46 PM, Jack Parkman said:

+1. Wonderful post. 

As much as the farm system can complement/supplement holes on a major league roster, I don't think a 70 win team is in as much a position to 'go for it' just yet. 

I want an ace, but, in all reality, they added highly regarded young prospects to be that. It would be great if they added one #2 type veteran starter to the rotation, but this is really all about 4 starters - Cease, Giolito, Kopech and Lopez developing (or not).

Free agency is really the preference. They have $$$ to spend, but outside of a RF and #2 starter, everything comes back to the young talent.

Offensively, the OF is soon to be Jimenez, Robert and ?????  They don't have a DH either, but I don't care if that's a rotation spot. They could spend on an OF type in RF or a DH.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

So, anyone ok with targeting Moustakas this offseason? This lineup needs a LH bat and I'd rather have him playing  1B than Abreu at this point. If Abreu wants to come back cheap as the DH that would be nice. It's going to be hard to get a LH bat for RF without making a trade. Nimmo is still an option. I think it's likely Collins is on the team next year. If Abreu is on a cheap 1 year deal he can move to a bench role when Vaughn is ready. 

Puig, Abreu and Moustakas should all be fairly inexpensive options to round out the lineup, and Nimmo is a backup buy low option and none of these guys should prevent the Sox from going after the top pitchers on the market. 

I wanted him the last 2 seasons but what do I know . He's only proven that he can hit and be semi versatile by playing 2nd base and you know he can play 1st base. He's also very high up among ML's this year for hard hit balls.

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I wanted him the last 2 seasons but what do I know . He's only proven that he can hit and be semi versatile by playing 2nd base and you know he can play 1st base. He's also very high up among ML's this year for hard hit balls.

I wanted him last year after the Machado epic fail. 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wanted him last year after the Machado epic fail. 

Granted 2 years ago he had a draft pick attached to him but he ended up being really inexpensive but he is very consistently above average and definitely has 30-35 HR power. But next year will be 31 so I might question if signing him now would be as good an opportunity as it has been. Heck he might not even be available.

[pcq]

On 8/1/2019 at 10:37 AM, Tony said:

With Anderson-Eloy-Robert-Puig, this team would have a lot of swag/attitude. 

Is Puig a good teammate?? I don't mind if he is crazy as long as he is loyal. We will be playing his new team and see what's up. 

[Jack Parkman]

29 minutes ago, pcq said:

Is Puig a good teammate?? I don't mind if he is crazy as long as he is loyal. We will be playing his new team and see what's up. 

I think standing up for your teammates in a brawl after you've just  been traded answers your question. 

[Bob Sacamano]

22 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think standing up for your teammates in a brawl after you've just  been traded answers your question. 

He didn't get word of the trade at that point. I happened to be watching the game live at a bar and he was still in the game in RF 15 minutes after the trade was announced.

[greg775]

6 hours ago, pcq said:

Is Puig a good teammate?? I don't mind if he is crazy as long as he is loyal. We will be playing his new team and see what's up. 

He turns 29 in December which in this day and age is eons younger than Jose's 33. They have almost identical (traditional) stats. I don't mind Puig. He's a good hitter. He's really going to help Cleveland maybe win it all finally.

[jamesdiego]

Well, I’m convinced.  Puig sounds like a stand up guy and good teammate.  

 

“He is the worst person I've ever seen in this game," one ex-Dodger who believes Puig is beyond redemption said flatly. "Ever.”

"I guarantee you they're trying to get rid of him," one source with a rival club said of Puig. "There's no question he's a problem. In my mind, he's a problem anywhere he goes.  "He's Hanley Ramirez: He's a cancer on a ball club."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2597460-is-there-anybody-left-in-los-angeles-whom-yasiel-puig-hasnt-alienated?utm_source=twitter.comScott Miller

 

 

 

Puig argued with teammates over who should be allowed on a plane ride that typically includes wives and girlfriends. The subject of someone from Puig's entourage joining the traveling crew came up, and sources told Yahoo Sports that Puig argued with pitcher Zack Greinke and nearly came to blows with infielder Justin Turner over the matter.

Passan also reports that a Dodgers player who asked to remain unnamed said trading Puig would be "addition by subtraction."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/new-book-outlines-problems-between-yasiel-puig-teammates/amp/

 

 

 

 

(Game 2 of the 2017 World Series, Puig missed a critical catch)   

Puig wasn’t ready for the pitch and got a late jump. He was out of position, shaded too far toward center field. He often ignored the positioning card distributed to Dodgers defenders before games; according to six people familiar with the situation, he on several occasions ripped up the card in front of outfield coach George Lombard and left the pieces on the ground. In the eyes of Dodgers officials, Puig was unprepared at a time when negligence might mean the difference between a title and heartbreak.  

“There were always things like that,” manager Dave Roberts said one day this spring. “Taking plays off.”  

according to interviews with more than 20 current and former Dodgers, coaches and executives. Tardiness plagued Puig. His attention wavered. His preparation waned. He ran the bases with enough recklessness that teammates joked Puig thought he was invisible. He hassled staffers. He ignored suggestions from coaches. He rejected entreaties from teammates.

The Dodgers utilize advanced metrics and lasers to guide their fielders. Puig believed he could read swings and trust his instincts. FanGraphs has rated him a below-average fielder for five of his six seasons, but Puig considered himself elite. That led to the positioning cards being torn up.  

“The hard part was he’d always have a knee-jerk reaction, and try to point out something that you did, a year ago,” Turner said. “Like, ‘Oh, you did this! It’s OK for you?’”

Corey Seager shrugged his shoulders. He could not conjure a favorite story about Yasiel Puig. “Uh . . . not really,” Seager said. “Not really, without, like, bashing him.”  

For the Dodgers, the grievances had added up. Puig showed up late to meetings. He did not do the necessary work to prevent injury. He was uninterested in instruction.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/la-sp-yasiel-puig-dodgers-legacy-reds-20190414-story.html%3F_amp%3Dtrue

 

[Sarava]

On 8/1/2019 at 6:19 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

But why would an 83 year old Reinsdorf do this?  He’s never been willing to go into the red, but he has a track record of more or less putting most money back into the team.  Now, as he approaches the end of his life he’s going to suddenly milk his MLB franchise for profits when he’s already sitting on a $1B+ he can’t spend.  You can’t really believe this right?  Furthermore, the #1 source of revenue for MLB franchises are local TV deals and us sucking directly impacts the value of any future agreements, both as owner of the Sox & Bulls.  There is simply no logic whatsoever to think the Sox will suddenly go cheap, when there is decades of proof we will at least be a middle of the pack payroll team.

Regarding your second point, I have zero confidence that this organization will be able to land a whale.  The way they failed in their pursuits of Machado was a true disaster.  They were cocky as hell throughout the process, swinging their dicks around town and claiming they had “unprecedented economic flexibility” & “economic might”, when in reality they had a hard cap on years (creating way too much optimism within the fanbase).  They went out and added two of his friends for a combined ~$13M in salary, when they weren’t prepared to even go to $300M in guaranteed money (which defeated the entire tie-breaker purpose of said strategy).  And maybe worse of all they negotiated through the media, constantly informing the market of how ridiculously low their offer was for and inviting other entrants into the process (one who ultimately won).  I will never defend their failures with Machado and will remain highly skeptical of their ability to land a whale until it actually happens.

That being said, I will also be objective and say confidently we should able to sign the vast majority of free agents this offseason.  There are probably three guys who get over $100M deals in Cole, Strasburg, & Rendon and I’m not counting on us landing any of them.  However, after those three, everyone should be fair game and I feel confident we’ll add multiple pieces in that next tier.  Would an offseason centered around Grandal, Wheeler or Bumgarner, Wood, Gennett (to play RF), & Betances be bad?  If they rock a ~$125M payroll (which would be league average) that scenario would be very much possible and such an offseason would put us in a great spot to contend next year.

I used the Reinsdorf age thing in my thinking last off-season. Why wouldn't Reinsdorf just go for it? We're loaded with young talent and a signing like Manny Machado might push this rebuild over the top to the promiseland. Unfortunately - despite the reality that Reinsdorf probably won't even be alive by the end of Machado's contract, he still wouldn't do what everyone knew it would take. Why not?

Can you imagine if they had signed Machado? He's on pace for 40+ HR's this year. Throw him as shortstop, and Tim Anderson in CF or RF. This team would of been stacked at almost every position, once the last few guys made the team.

My only guess is it maybe concerned him that if Machado turned in to a bad contract, that it might bog down the team's value if his family inherits the White Sox (or whatever portion he owns) and tries to sell it. Otherwise I can't come up with anything.

They have so little money committed to the future, yet they're still playing games to save 3 mil on Nate Jones and not spending adequate funds on international prospects in the same breath.

I absolutely agree with you that they have the funds and should be able to sign most of these guys this off-season. I won't even fault them for not signing Cole - because if you give him 200 mil and he pitches like he did in his last 2 seasons in Pittsburgh, that would be ugly.

But others guys - bring them in and cross your fingers. But the strange reality is, any big name pitcher they sign this winter will be a far riskier signing than the Machado signing that they weren't willing to take the risks on for. That's what makes me worried they will balk at the end of the day. You know, settle for 'having a seat at the table'.

[GreenSox]

After electing not to participate in a seller's market, there's always next time.