Hahn expects aggressive offseason

[caulfield12]

Why did they let Belle walk? Why did they put a diminished skills clause in Thomas' contract? Why did they let Ventura leave as a player? Why did Dye/Pierzynski take less money in 05 to come to the Sox? Well, because Dye was coming off a broken leg and AJ was run out of SF because he completely alienated himself in less than one season from nearly every pitcher and member of the coaching staff. Why did they trade Lee before the 05 season? They traded Lee and let Valentin and Ordonez go in order to fit in all of hte 2004-2005 additions that would lead to a World Series winner in 2005, specifically to change the top of the line-up with Pods/Iguchi and fit Freddy Garcia/Jose Contreras onto the expense report.  Why did they go to Paulie and AJ when trying to get Dunn and have them delay their salary to sign him? Why do they seem to trade for guys with 2-3yrs left on their contract rather  than singing a guy for 5-6yrs in FA? Why did you just dump money with the Nate Jones trade? What happened in this past offseason? Jon Jay was your biggest FA acquisition Well, no, Herrera was... Let that sink in. We met with Bryce at the beginning of FA, had the United Center photo leaked and never another word. The amount of Jersey sales/ticket sales would of paid at least half his salary this is not true because that amount is shared/split with the rest of teams and wouldn't come close to $15 million...ticket sales included, we're talking $5-7.5 million if it's anything like what Philly experienced and that is not counting the endorsement money from being on the cover of gamesthat in and of itself has no impact on the Phillies. And the Machado thing... He literally said he wanted $300M and the Sox literally had no competition all offseason until it was leaked their offer was under $200M. And what did he do? Signed for $300M like her he said.

 

They saw early on backlash from the fans, and then they had better play from Moncada/Giolitto and the rest of the team. And people got excited and went to games. And they are trying to sell us the same garbage as last offseason. And people are not gonna buy it. And we are gonna go into next season with the same results, but this time Robert and Madrigal are going to be on the team doing what Eloy/Moncada/Giolito did this year. And it is just a big circle jerk. This teams problem is pitching, and they REFUSE to pay more than 3yrs to a pitcher John Danks and Mark Buehrle had 5 and 4 year contracts, but yeah....6+ years would be shocking, and they generally haven't take huge risks with free agent pitchers coming from outside the organization

 

So you are not being "objective" by thinking this is gonna change. People DO NOT CHANGEif you look at the Sox payrolls from 2006-2013, you'll discover that they were in the Top Ten, even Top 5 a couple of times, but probably averaged 8-10th in baseball (not saying that all that money was spent WISELY), they just don't. Jerry cares about money. There is a reason FAs do not sign with the Bulls, and it is not because they have to live up to MJ. It is because he is cheap and puts dumb clauses in contracts.

 

Why? Because Jerry is cheap!  Mostly, they've been terrible at talent identification and development...and equally poor with major league scouting (at least ever since they acquired Eaton, Floyd, Danks and Quentin before 2008)

Luis Robert, Moncada, Giolito, Anderson, Jimenez, Vaughn and Madrigal are who they're going "all in" with...if they're wrong, they won't have jobs 2-3 years from now.

Edited August 1, 2019 by caulfield12

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, raBBit said:

Ozuna can't play RF and bats right-handed. I dont see the fit but I agree with what you're saying though. 

I'm not a fan of the idea of signing him. Nor Castellanos for that matter.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

This site has an incredibly odd fascination with Alex Wood and Brandon Nimmo.  

[Bob Sacamano]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This site has an incredibly odd fascination with Alex Wood and Brandon Nimmo.  

I'd be good with Nimmo if the price is low. But I would think the Mets would keep him and see if he bounces back to 2018 numbers before trading him for little.

[wegner]

I will anxiously wait to see what they do this offseason.  I am fine as long as Hahn doesn't talk that "unprecedented financial flexibility" bullshit.  Now that pisses me off when they talk like that and basically do jack shit like last off season. 

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This site has an incredibly odd fascination with Alex Wood and Brandon Nimmo.  

Because they are fantastic fits for what this clubs needs.  

[Cashman]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Why did they let Belle walk? Why did they put a diminished skills clause in Thomas' contract? Why did they let Ventura leave as a player? Why did Dye/Pierzynski take less money in 05 to come to the Sox? Well, because Dye was coming off a broken leg and AJ was run out of SF because he completely alienated himself in less than one season from nearly every pitcher and member of the coaching staff. Why did they trade Lee before the 05 season? They traded Lee and let Valentin and Ordonez go in order to fit in all of hte 2004-2005 additions that would lead to a World Series winner in 2005, specifically to change the top of the line-up with Pods/Iguchi and fit Freddy Garcia/Jose Contreras onto the expense report.  Why did they go to Paulie and AJ when trying to get Dunn and have them delay their salary to sign him? Why do they seem to trade for guys with 2-3yrs left on their contract rather  than singing a guy for 5-6yrs in FA? Why did you just dump money with the Nate Jones trade? What happened in this past offseason? Jon Jay was your biggest FA acquisition Well, no, Herrera was... Let that sink in. We met with Bryce at the beginning of FA, had the United Center photo leaked and never another word. The amount of Jersey sales/ticket sales would of paid at least half his salary this is not true because that amount is shared/split with the rest of teams and wouldn't come close to $15 million...ticket sales included, we're talking $5-7.5 million if it's anything like what Philly experienced and that is not counting the endorsement money from being on the cover of gamesthat in and of itself has no impact on the Phillies. And the Machado thing... He literally said he wanted $300M and the Sox literally had no competition all offseason until it was leaked their offer was under $200M. And what did he do? Signed for $300M like her he said.

 

They saw early on backlash from the fans, and then they had better play from Moncada/Giolitto and the rest of the team. And people got excited and went to games. And they are trying to sell us the same garbage as last offseason. And people are not gonna buy it. And we are gonna go into next season with the same results, but this time Robert and Madrigal are going to be on the team doing what Eloy/Moncada/Giolito did this year. And it is just a big circle jerk. This teams problem is pitching, and they REFUSE to pay more than 3yrs to a pitcher John Danks and Mark Buehrle had 5 and 4 year contracts, but yeah....6+ years would be shocking, and they generally haven't take huge risks with free agent pitchers coming from outside the organization

 

So you are not being "objective" by thinking this is gonna change. People DO NOT CHANGEif you look at the Sox payrolls from 2006-2013, you'll discover that they were in the Top Ten, even Top 5 a couple of times, but probably averaged 8-10th in baseball (not saying that all that money was spent WISELY), they just don't. Jerry cares about money. There is a reason FAs do not sign with the Bulls, and it is not because they have to live up to MJ. It is because he is cheap and puts dumb clauses in contracts.

 

Why? Because Jerry is cheap!  Mostly, they've been terrible at talent identification and development...and equally poor with major league scouting (at least ever since they acquired Eaton, Floyd, Danks and Quentin before 2008)

Luis Robert, Moncada, Giolito, Anderson, Jimenez, Vaughn and Madrigal are who they're going "all in" with...if they're wrong, they won't have jobs 2-3 years from now.

Dye, specifically said, someone offered him more money, but he gave the Sox his word. AJ said he wanted X amount, but the Sox only had less than that to spend. They traded Lee because they would have to re-sign him, had nothing to do with changing the top of the order. Also, are you suggesting they knew they would win the WS?Really, you are gonna split hairs with Jay/Herrara?

If you remember that Buehrle contract, they didn't wanna re-sign him, until the backlash.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Ok if you say so.

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, raBBit said:

I am actually 100% okay with the quantity approach in free agency. We really need to turn over the 40 man roster and while I could argue otherwise, the team won't look at Rendon as a fit. Past Rendon, Cole is going to be highly desired and it is not reasonable to expect the Sox to sign a pitcher to a 6-9 year deal with an AAV north of a quarter mil.

1) Sign Grandal - 4 years, 64M (there's a big risk to a mid-market team paying a catcher for his age 33-34 seasons, when're in the heart of the window, but there might be no other choice)

2) Sign Alex Wood - 1 year + player option. 11M + 8M

3) Sign Tony Cingrani - 2 years, 19M

4) Sign Brandon Kintzler - 2 years, 10M

5) Trade Fry and a prospect to the Dodgers for Ross Stripling it won't be THAT easy to get him if Ryu walks and they need rotation depth, because the main thing we have to offer, outfield prospects, is what they STILL have too many of at the major league level already...Hill is 40, Maeda's been shaky and Kershaw loses some of his stuff every year, Stripling is actually quite helpful as a swingman, has the versatility

6) Trade a couple prospects for Brandon Nimmo. (easier said than done, he had a great season last year...still not sure what we have that they'd actually want, even for someone coming off an extremely disappointing season)

Then I assume the Sox will keep Abreu for 1+1 at a cheap price.

By April 20th we're looking at: 

1) CF Robert 2) 3B Moncada 3) 1B Abreu 4) C Grandal 5) LF Eloy 6) RF Nimmo 7) SS Anderson 8') DH Collins 9) 2B Madrigal - Use the DH as rotating with Abreu getting starts there and Leury getting starts with regular starters getting a look at DH. Your bench is McCann, Leury and couple of others.

1) Giolito 2) Wood 3) Kopech 4) Cease 5) Lopez/Stripling - Stripling can move and back forth from the pen being the flex guy when injuries occur. Rodon returns late in year and Dunning would seemingly be ready midseason for added depth.

Pen: 1) Colome 2) Bummer 3) Kintzler 4) Cingrani 5) Stripling and whoever else they want to run with.

Is that a perfect team? No. Is it pretty good? I think so. And it won't cost that much. To me the big thing is just signing Grandal.

 

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ok if you say so.

hmmm excellent point

[ChiSox59]

5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Ok if you say so.

Who would you target?  

[mqr]

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Because they are fantastic fits for what this clubs needs.  

I'm on the Nimmo train with you but I'm not so sure he'll be available anymore. I have no idea what they're doing over there. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, mqr said:

I'm on the Nimmo train with you but I'm not so sure he'll be available anymore. I have no idea what they're doing over there. 

I was never sure he'd be available.  He's just a good fit, and shouldn't be outrageously expensive.  That team is so left handed in the OF, I fell like they could afford to part with him.  But yah, hard to handicap BVW. 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Cashman said:

Dye, specifically said, someone offered him more money, but he gave the Sox his word. AJ said he wanted X amount, but the Sox only had less than that to spend. They traded Lee because they would have to re-sign him, had nothing to do with changing the top of the order. Also, are you suggesting they knew they would win the WS?Really, you are gonna split hairs with Jay/Herrara?

If you remember that Buehrle contract, they didn't wanna re-sign him, until the backlash.

More than anything, Dye wanted an opportunity to play everyday...remember, those A's teams he was on were REALLY good back then, but he was getting more expensive for a cash-strapped team.  At any rate, that's hardly an indictment, that a player kept his word.

The White Sox treated AJ Pierzynski fairly, kept him around for something like 8 years, and still bring him back to be around the broadcast booth even though 1/2 the people in baseball hate his guts.

Lee is the definition of a LF with big numbers in the traditional categories who would be around a 2-2.5 fWAR player today...he wasn't worth huge, superstar money, as teams like the Astros discovered later.  There's no point to list all 8 or 9 players they exchanged, basically, for those 3.

Jay's piddling $4 million contract is a lot less than Herrera's two year deal for a lot more money (albeit it has been terrible)

 

Every team goes through a backlash with a popular veteran when they leave....arguably, the White Sox held onto guys from 2005 like Konerko, Contrera and Paulie well beyond their shelf life...at any rate, if the Cardinals kept Pujols or the Yankees kept Robinson Cano, just to placate their fans...they woudn't have been competitive as they were without those players.   Of course, this requires investing or spending those "saved" contractual dollars wisely, which hasn't exactly transpired with the exception of the Luis Robert signing, and McCann for 3 months.

[knightni]

If Abreu/Moncada/Robert can get into his head, Yasiel Puig would fit into RF nicely in 2020.

He's a free agent, so he may only cost a compensation pick.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

 

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Who would you target?  

Guys who can stay on the field.  This team has more than it's share of oft-injured players.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

 

Guys who can stay on the field.  This team has more than it's share of oft-injured players.

Great analysis.  

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Thank you

[wegner]

1 minute ago, knightni said:

If Abreu/Moncada/Robert can get into his head, Yasiel Puig would fit into RF nicely in 2020.

He's a free agent, so he may only cost a compensation pick.

Since he was traded, there is no worry about losing a pick I think.

[mqr]

Just now, wegner said:

Since he was traded, there is no worry about losing a pick I think.

Yup. 

I'd be okay with Puig if not totally in love with the idea. Being the Heel Sox would be fun. 

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, knightni said:

If Abreu/Moncada/Robert can get into his head, Yasiel Puig would fit into RF nicely in 2020.

He's a free agent, so he may only cost a compensation pick.

He just got traded, so no compensation pick.

But Puig really isn't that great of a fit.  Lineup gets so right handed if the RF we add isn't a lefty (or switch hitter).

I suppose as a backup plan, I wouldn't hate it if paired with someone like Grandal for C/DH.  

Edited August 1, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

Yup. 

I'd be okay with Puig if not totally in love with the idea. Being the Heel Sox would be fun. 

I've opened up to the idea as well. I prefer a left-handed bat, but a factor is also availability.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

11 minutes ago, Tony said:

Thanks for providing a thought provoking post. Instead of shitting on everything and others ideas, give some yourself...

Michael Conforto

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Michael Conforto

Too much talent surrendered from our depleted farm system to acquire...and they’re stuck with Cano, for those still trying to get rid of Madrigal...just not a fit.  They have Alonso, no need for Vaughn.  Dunning isn’t healthy.

[wegner]

What I would like them to do is to realistically target those tier 2 free agents that they like and go after them early and aggressively with short term contracts and get some more  MLB talent in here next year.  Adding  that proven major league talent with Madrigal and Robert next year would be exciting.

Then when they are done with the above and still want to play games like signing Gerrit Cole’s wife’s aesthetician as a beauty consultant for the team, go right ahead.