Hahn expects aggressive offseason

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Just because we weren't competing this year doesn't mean we can't make moves to improve the team for next year. That's why they went after Machado to begin with. If guys make sense for our window, we should be trying to bring them in. I think we brought in Herrera in Hope's that he could turn it around. Nova was an innings eater. It'll be interesting to see who we bring in this offseason. 

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

[ChiSox59]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And the best part is it’s all because we didn’t sign Manny Machado to one of the five largest deals in baseball history. Despite the fact we offered him $31M+ per over eight years, many believe the White Sox will never sign a quality free agent in the future.  If people actually believe that, then they are simply not being rational anymore.  All but two or three free agents will get deals for under $100M.  For those citing history, we’ve spent $60M on Abreu, $50M on Robert, & $65M on a Danks extension.  To think we won’t go up to $100M for a player when we’re sitting on $45M in payroll commitments next year is insanity.

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

[Balta1701]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time. 

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

I actually think we were that incompetent hoping that he'd turn it around and foolishly paid him. 

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

And it was also a request for a huge discount from his realistic value at the same time. 

More than 28 other clubs offered him.  

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And the best part is it’s all because we didn’t sign Manny Machado to one of the five largest deals in baseball history. Despite the fact we offered him $31M+ per over eight years, many believe the White Sox will never sign a quality free agent in the future.  If people actually believe that, then they are simply not being rational anymore.  All but two or three free agents will get deals for under $100M.  For those citing history, we’ve spent $60M on Abreu, $50M on Robert, & $65M on a Danks extension.  To think we won’t go up to $100M for a player when we’re sitting on $45M in payroll commitments next year is insanity.

That’s still far from $200+ million for a pitcher and $300+ million for a position player (Rendon won’t get nearly that much due to age and injury history)...and reported offers and deals signed are two quite distinct things.

Anything over $75 million for one player would be shocking because this time around none of the free agents are 26 years old and in their primes.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Herrera signed one of the top 5-7 contracts given out to relievers last offseason, depending on how you count a couple guys. That's not a "Turn it around" contract, that's a "we think you're still really good" contract. 

Which is another reason for people to whine, because that's disconcerting. 

Greg could have volunteered in the front office and opined...”please compare his stuff from 2014-15 to present day and past overuse in KC.”   Not hard to foresee that he was on the downside.

If you’re betting on rebounds, go after someone like Carl Edwards, Jr., that won’t cost much more than a Tilson, Engel or Cordell.  Find four guys like that and one will have a Kahnle-like season and three will stumble.   Still better risk that $15-20 million on “established” veteran setup guys.

[fathom]

This offseason is going to see teams that sat out last offseason due to budget issues be a lot more aggressive. 

[FloydBannister1983]

20 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

More than 28 other clubs offered him.  

LOL - It’s not a game of horseshoes or hand grenades.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Juschill said:

LOL - It’s not a game of horseshoes or hand grenades.

No shit.  No participation trophies in free agency.  But I also don't have my head so deep in the negativity sand that I don't think those dollars won't be deployed elsewhere.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

No shit.  No participation trophies in free agency.  But I also don't have my head so deep in the negativity sand that I don't think those dollars won't be deployed elsewhere.  

Those last eight words of your second sentence are what many of us are afraid of...allocated, but not altogether wisely.  

Edited August 1, 2019 by caulfield12

[SCCWS]

4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

What the White Sox offered Machado was, at the time, the third richest contract in the history of major league baseball. Obviously it didn't happen.  But to think they're just going to sit on that money is now is such a funny take.  

Unfortunately, most people won't believe until they see it, and even if the Sox do some damage in free agency this year, unless they sign a Cole, Strasburg or Rendon, a lot of the usual suspects will still being saying it.  

In the end, it is not who they sign but how they produce.  Whether this winter they sign Cole or grab somebody off waivers, next year they cannot afford to be struggling to stay afloat at the trade deadline. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by SCCWS
spell

[Thad Bosley]

3 hours ago, ptatc said:

Yes it can. If the the prospects produce as expected they will all become expensive in 5-7 years.

Giolito and moncada in 4, Jimenez and kopech in 5, cease in 6, madrigal and Robert in 7.

I would prefer to pay the players from in the organization who you know and know the medical history as opposed to an aging  pitcher in the 7 and 8 years of a contract.

I think the focus should be on what's supposed to be our prime window of contention, which is the next 5-7 years.  That's when a premier starter like Cole would greatly enhance our chances to succeed during that window.  

We can worry about post-window compensation for any aging pitcher and what our core prospects might cost after 2024.   

[Big Hurtin]

3 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Why do people keep thinking this?

They are going to have a very young and very cheap team next year.  Nova and to a lesser extent Herrera are place holders for a team that was never going to compete this year.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

[Balta1701]

51 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

In the end, it is now who they sign but how they produce.  Whether this winter they sign Cole or grab somebody off waivers, next year they cannot afford to be struggling to stay afloat at the trade deadline. 

Regardless of what RH does this offseason, I think that with the amount of stuff coming up from the minor leagues and the amount of money to spend...an entirely fair thing to ask for is "Competitive baseball in September". Don't even have to actually win the Wild Card, but at least should have their team name on the lists shown of the handful of teams that have a shot at it.

If we don't get that next year then I'm not sure when we ever will. 

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

Lol...absolutely no goodwill came out of the Machado miss.  All it did is make our fanbase question their inability to spend even more-so.  

The reality is our front office actually thought $250M with options could get it done.  Now, either they’re completely incompetent to act that cocky all offseason knowing that was their cap or they thought Lozano was bluffing at the end with SD and botched it completely.  I lean towards the latter because it’s almost impossible to think Hahn would swing his dick around so much if he knew they were capped at $250M.  At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter because they didn’t get it done in an incredibly friendly market for a club of our stature.

[BackDoorBreach]

15 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/03/largest-contract-each-mlb-team.html

But yes, keep thinking Charlie Brown will kick that football.  I know he will fall on his ass.

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

They really need new ownership.

When was the last time the Sox had this young and good of a core?  I'm 30, not in my lifetime.  

The Machado thing was a PR nightmare, they aren't going to come up empty handed.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

When was the last time the Sox had this young and good of a core?  I'm 30, not in my lifetime.  

They supposedly had the #1 system in baseball around 2000 also and they already had Ordonez, Lee, and Thomas on the roster, but for my money I'll take that early 90's team. That sucker was loaded. 

[poppysox]

6 hours ago, Tony said:

I don't think they are ever going to come close to winning a bidding war for Cole. Wheeler seems more realistic, and I actually think they will end up with one of Wheeler-Keuchel-Odorizzi. I agree totally about Grandal, and I've thought all along they are going to sign Puig for RF, he just feels like a White Sox. 

You add Odorizzi-Grandal-Puig-bullpen arm I think by May 1, this team is ready to play.

 

Wheeler showed us why he should be on the radar.  Cole would be great but the Wheeler types would do very nicely.

[Sox80]

32 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Wheeler showed us why he should be on the radar.  Cole would be great but the Wheeler types would do very nicely.

 I  think a lot of guys are gonna look good against this lineup. 

[FloydBannister1983]

50 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

 

If you bring up Machado, the simple fact of the matter is this, they offered him a contract that they knew he wasn't going to sign.  Used that offer to sell to the fans that "the money will be spent".

This.  The offer was a poison pill.  They knew he would never sign that contact.  They weren’t outsmarted.  Poison pill all the way.

 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Juschill said:

This.  The offer was a poison pill.  They knew he would never sign that contact.  They weren’t outsmarted.  Poison pill all the way.

 

The fact anyone could think this is honestly incredible.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The fact anyone could think this is honestly incredible.

The fact that anyone could think those options would be picked up is equally incredible. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The fact that anyone could think those options would be picked up is equally incredible. 

So you actually think our months long pursuit of Machado and $250M offer were all part of some extensive con?

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

So you actually think our months long pursuit of Machado and $250M offer were all part of some extensive con?

I mean, it appears that way.   Including some of the stupid twitter "leaks" about "competitive offer".  Who the fuck loses a bid in FA and then comes up with the "competitive offer" shit?  That's some spin.