Madrigal Promoted to AAA

[ChiSox59]

8 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

Give him a month in AAA and then call him up in September, so he can get the ball rolling on 2020. Same with Robert. 

Yah, that is just not going to happen man.  Best to come to terms with that now.  Its for the best.  

[Bob Sacamano]

2 hours ago, Joshua Strong said:

I think Madrigal signs an extension, I don’t see Robert signing on. He just got $26M to sign with them, an extension would have to be big for him to sign. 

That poster has posted this idea before. Not an extension to give up free agent years, but a deal that would effectively get him on the roster now and still become a free agent after the same season he would be a free agent if the Sox waited until next year to promote him. So pretty much an 8-year deal with the first year being the remaining 2 months.

But having said all that, I don't think that has actually ever happened.

Edited August 2, 2019 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

18 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, that is just not going to happen man.  Best to come to terms with that now.  Its for the best.  

Not sure it's for the best . Giolito Moncada and Lopez are all free agents in 2024 . It's time to prioritize a clear window from 2020 to 2024 as the key years to try to win a title so the last couple of years before FA for Robert and Madrigal are not that important. If you worry too much about sustained success you may not reach the true goal which is winning another World Series . Chances are sustained success is going to be a mirage if you want it to last 5+ years . Let's start working on the next 5 years and leave it at that.

[Jack Parkman]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not sure it's for the best . Giolito Moncada and Lopez are all free agents in 2024 . It's time to prioritize a clear window from 2020 to 2024 as the key years to try to win a title so the last couple of years before FA for Robert and Madrigal are not that important. If you worry too much about sustained success you may not reach the true goal which is winning another World Series . Chances are sustained success is going to be a mirage if you want it to last 5+ years . Let's start working on the next 5 years and leave it at that.

They're free agents after the 2023 season dude.

[ChiSox59]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not sure it's for the best . Giolito Moncada and Lopez are all free agents in 2024 . It's time to prioritize a clear window from 2020 to 2024 as the key years to try to win a title so the last couple of years before FA for Robert and Madrigal are not that important. If you worry too much about sustained success you may not reach the true goal which is winning another World Series . Chances are sustained success is going to be a mirage if you want it to last 5+ years . Let's start working on the next 5 years and leave it at that.

I for one am glad the FO isn’t rushing this thing because the 24-26 seasons “are not that important”. 

They are trying to build a team for sustained success and a big part of that is spreading out free agency and having waves of talent. 

I am okay being patient, but admit it all changes come May 2020, and they damn better flex their financial flexibility this offseason. 

[Baron]

I mean it may be for the best as far as financially. But not really for the players. Robert is gaining nothing by sitting in AAA for the rest of the season. 

[ChiSox59]

10 minutes ago, Baron said:

I mean it may be for the best as far as financially. But not really for the players. Robert is gaining nothing by sitting in AAA for the rest of the season. 

Financially it makes virtually no difference.  This isn't a "White Sox being cheap" move.  Its a White Sox trying to maximize the control of a potentially elite major league player move.  I have no doubt that if the Sox were actually in the race for something this year, Robert would be in CF right now.  But they aren't, and so we wait until mid May 2020.  

But this discussion has been beaten to death, so I am just going to stop commenting on it. 

[Wanne]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Not sure it's for the best . Giolito Moncada and Lopez are all free agents in 2024 . It's time to prioritize a clear window from 2020 to 2024 as the key years to try to win a title so the last couple of years before FA for Robert and Madrigal are not that important. If you worry too much about sustained success you may not reach the true goal which is winning another World Series . Chances are sustained success is going to be a mirage if you want it to last 5+ years . Let's start working on the next 5 years and leave it at that.

this is exactly where I'm at.  I hear what 59 is sayin...but I'm tired of sitting around waiting.  Worry too much about down the road you'll miss today (or next year for that matter).

[Baron]

57 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Financially it makes virtually no difference.  This isn't a "White Sox being cheap" move.  Its a White Sox trying to maximize the control of a potentially elite major league player move.  I have no doubt that if the Sox were actually in the race for something this year, Robert would be in CF right now.  But they aren't, and so we wait until mid May 2020.  

But this discussion has been beaten to death, so I am just going to stop commenting on it. 

I never said it is. I understand what they'll gain by leaving him down as far as service time goes. It's part of  the CBA and it sucks. But it is what it is. I'm just saying for him it's doing nothing to have him rot in AAA right now. He's not getting challenged there. In reality he should probably be playing with the White Sox no matter what right now if CBA issues didn't get in the way. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Baron

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Wanne said:

this is exactly where I'm at.  I hear what 59 is sayin...but I'm tired of sitting around waiting.  Worry too much about down the road you'll miss today (or next year for that matter).

Ya, we're all tired of waiting.  It sucks.  But brighter days are on the horizon.  Good things come to those that wait. I'll say it again - no reason to lose patience in the 11th hour.  

[Baron]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Ya, we're all tired of waiting.  It sucks.  But brighter days are on the horizon.  Good things come to those that wait. I'll say it again - no reason to lose patience in the 11th hour.  

You should have should put a *maybe* next to the last part of that. The only thing that's 100 percent true is losing sucks. The rest is up to management. 

[ChiSox59]

18 minutes ago, Baron said:

I never said it is. I understand what they'll gain by leaving him down as far as service time goes. It's part of  the CBA and it sucks. But it is what it is. I'm just saying for him it's doing nothing to have him rot in AAA right now. In reality he should probably be playing with the White Sox no matter what right now. 

Well, you did say "I mean it may be for the best as far as financially", which would indicate that you think the Sox are partially motivated to do this to save money.  Which really isn't a factor here at all.  

Robert isn't rotting in AAA.  He has 650 minor league at bats, and about 200 over A ball.  He turns 22 tomorrow. He missed the majority of last season hurt.  The Sox aren't ruining this kids development by letting him spend another 30 days in AAA.  I get everyone wants to watch him in the bigs.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited too! But I am willing to wait because I know it will be worth it in the end.  I am 29 years old.  I have a lot of White Sox baseball ahead of me.  I know this team could be juggernaut in 22-26, and I know they suck balls right now.  I'd prefer to have 28 year old Robert on this team than as a first year player on the Yankees after he signed a $500M contract.    

Edited August 2, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Baron]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Well, you did say "I mean it may be for the best as far as financially", which would indicate that you think the Sox are partially motivated to do this to save money.  Which really isn't a factor here at all.  

Robert isn't rotting in AAA.  He has 650 minor league at bats, and about 200 over A ball.  He turns 22 tomorrow. He missed the majority of last season hurt.  The Sox aren't ruining this kids development by letting him spend another 30 days in AAA.  I get everyone wants to watch him in the bigs.  If they called him up tomorrow, I'd be excited too! But I am willing to wait because I know it will be worth it in the end.  I am 29 years old.  I have a lot of White Sox baseball ahead of me.  I know this team could be juggernaut in 22-26, and I know they suck balls right now.  I'd prefer to have 28 year old Robert on this team than as a first year player on the Yankees after he signed a $500M contract.    

I think if they can't sign him to an extension or convince him to come back by that time then they have bigger problems on their hands.  Stop being dramatic. I never said ruining his development. He is as developed as he's probably going to be in AAA. He's just seal clubbing right now. He's ready for the majors. 

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Baron said:

I think if they can't sign him to an extension or convince him to come back by that time then they have bigger problems on their hands.  Stop being dramatic. I never said ruining his development. He is as developed as he's probably going to be in AAA. He's just seal clubbing right now. He's ready for the majors. 

Lol, I am not being dramatic.  You don't have to like what the club has decided to do, but its probably best to come to terms with it.   Robert (and Madrigal for that matter) are not playing in the major leagues until next May. Sorry.  

Edited August 2, 2019 by ChiSox59

[Baron]

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol, I am not being dramatic.  You don't have to like what the club has decided to do, but its probably best to come to terms with it.   Robert (and Madrigal for that matter) are not playing in the major leagues until next May. Sorry.  

"In reality he should probably be playing with the White Sox no matter what right now if CBA issues didn't get in the way". Maybe try reading the whole thing next time. We all understand this and no we don't have to like it. But this is why there's probably going to be a lockout. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Baron

[mqr]

[Bananarchy]

Honestly, the stupid “they need to pull him up now” takes need to die. An extra year in a player’s prime is more valuable than a month-ish in a losing season. 

[Boopa1219]

14 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Honestly, the stupid “they need to pull him up now” takes need to die. An extra year in a player’s prime is more valuable than a month-ish in a losing season. 

You can buy that extra year with an extension 

[pcq]

Don't get demoted to the Sox lolz. 

[poppysox]

On 8/2/2019 at 2:01 PM, Baron said:

I mean it may be for the best as far as financially. But not really for the players. Robert is gaining nothing by sitting in AAA for the rest of the season. 

Everyone wants to be part of a collective bargaining  unit until the bargaining unit does something not in their own best interest.  The system works fine for average players who are happy to have a job.  For the stars...not so much.

[Jack Parkman]

22 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

Honestly, the stupid “they need to pull him up now” takes need to die. An extra year in a player’s prime is more valuable than a month-ish in a losing season. 

Ok, counterargument: Why do you want to waste a season of Moncada and Giolito's prime, by waiting for Robert and Madrigal to make adjustments? Why not get those growing pains out of the way before they matter? The Sox are past the time in the rebuild to worry about service time considerations. The goal now is to get as many good players performing at a high level on the team simultaneously. 

This is a completely different scenario from last year with Eloy. In 2018, the Sox didn't have an established core group of players. In 2019 they do. Huge, massive, gigantic difference. If the Sox keep playing service time games they're going to inadvertently shorten their window because there's always going to be a hole here or there in the lineup or rotation because somebody's going through growing pains. If you have a chance to avoid that, why wouldn't you? 

Players that will be here in 2020: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech

Players that are all free agents before 2026: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech 

 

Think about this long and hard before playing silly games with service time. If they bring up Robert in late August and Madrigal in September, they have a chance to be the 2015 Cubs in 2020. If they don't, it is likely 2020 is another rebuilding year. Eloy has been here since day 1 and he's still struggling at the plate, as well as showing promise. Do you really want to go through that all season with Robert next year? 

[Sarava]

On 8/2/2019 at 7:56 AM, Joshua Strong said:

I think Madrigal signs an extension, I don’t see Robert signing on. He just got $26M to sign with them, an extension would have to be big for him to sign. 

I'm not sure the Sox would offer Madigral an extension this early. There's a lot of unknown for what type of impact he can or will have with the Sox. Probably best to just let things play out when he gets here and go from there.

[JuliusO1274]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok, counterargument: Why do you want to waste a season of Moncada and Giolito's prime, by waiting for Robert and Madrigal to make adjustments? Why not get those growing pains out of the way before they matter? The Sox are past the time in the rebuild to worry about service time considerations. The goal now is to get as many good players performing at a high level on the team simultaneously. 

This is a completely different scenario from last year with Eloy. In 2018, the Sox didn't have an established core group of players. In 2019 they do. Huge, massive, gigantic difference. If the Sox keep playing service time games they're going to inadvertently shorten their window because there's always going to be a hole here or there in the lineup or rotation because somebody's going through growing pains. If you have a chance to avoid that, why wouldn't you? 

Players that will be here in 2020: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech

Players that are all free agents before 2026: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech 

 

Think about this long and hard before playing silly games with service time. If they bring up Robert in late August and Madrigal in September, they have a chance to be the 2015 Cubs in 2020. If they don't, it is likely 2020 is another rebuilding year. Eloy has been here since day 1 and he's still struggling at the plate, as well as showing promise. Do you really want to go through that all season with Robert next year? 

I agree but with this logic they should both be called up now. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, JuliusO1274 said:

I agree but with this logic they should both be called up now. 

That would be ideal. They could call up Robert Monday and it wouldn't surprise me. I don't think they'll call up Madrigal until he has a bit more time in AAA, given that he's only played 2 games at the level. 

Best case scenario at this point is Robert at the beginning of the next homestand and Madrigal on 9/1. 

I don't think they're calling up either before 4/15/2020, but I hope they can correct their rectal-cranial inversion before the end of the month. That is abslolutely the wrong move and both guys could have made the jump from AA to MLB. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Capital G]

22 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Ok, counterargument: Why do you want to waste a season of Moncada and Giolito's prime, by waiting for Robert and Madrigal to make adjustments? Why not get those growing pains out of the way before they matter? The Sox are past the time in the rebuild to worry about service time considerations. The goal now is to get as many good players performing at a high level on the team simultaneously. 

This is a completely different scenario from last year with Eloy. In 2018, the Sox didn't have an established core group of players. In 2019 they do. Huge, massive, gigantic difference. If the Sox keep playing service time games they're going to inadvertently shorten their window because there's always going to be a hole here or there in the lineup or rotation because somebody's going through growing pains. If you have a chance to avoid that, why wouldn't you? 

Players that will be here in 2020: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech

Players that are all free agents before 2026: 

Moncada

Giolito

Lopez 

Kopech 

 

Think about this long and hard before playing silly games with service time. If they bring up Robert in late August and Madrigal in September, they have a chance to be the 2015 Cubs in 2020. If they don't, it is likely 2020 is another rebuilding year. Eloy has been here since day 1 and he's still struggling at the plate, as well as showing promise. Do you really want to go through that all season with Robert next year? 

I am pretty much in the middle of this. I get having them come up to get some MLB experience. I get keeping them down to save a year of service.

But I am not so sure your argument is why I would bring them up. As you stated, Eloy has been here since day 1 and he's still struggling at the plate. Gio struggled all of last year. Moncada too. Do you think bringing up Madrigal and Robert for a couple months will make that big of a difference in how they will play in '20 when it took Gio/Yo a year and Eloy hopefully a year?

IMO if Madrigal and Robert succeed right out the gate in '20 it wont be bc we brought them up to the majors for a month/2months. It'll be bc they simply adjusted to MLB quicker than the above mentioned.