wOBA

[Jack Parkman]

I've come to think that OBP doesn't tell the whole story, and wOBA is a better judge of a player's skills. OBP treats a walk and HR the same, while wOBA doesn't. The only thing that OBP is good for is telling you the percentage of non-outs a hitter makes. 

I'd like to have a discussion.

[chitownsportsfan]

No shit?

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No shit?

lol. 

[Balta1701]

The only stats one needs to consider for any player are outs and runs. 

[Eminor3rd]

5 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I've come to think that OBP doesn't tell the whole story, and wOBA is a better judge of a player's skills. OBP treats a walk and HR the same, while wOBA doesn't. The only thing that OBP is good for is telling you the percentage of non-outs a hitter makes. 

I'd like to have a discussion.

If you are seeking to guage a player's overall offensive performance, you are correct. This has been consensus for many years. Also, remember that wRC+ is just wOBA that is park-adjusted, league-adjusted, and indexed to 100 to make it easier to parse. So, unless you don't agree with park and league adjustments, wRC+ is just a better wOBA.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Eminor3rd

[Jack Parkman]

57 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

If you are seeking to guage a player's overall offensive performance, you are correct. This has been consensus for many years. Also, remember that wRC+ is just wOBA that is park-adjusted, league-adjusted, and indexed to 100 to make it easier to parse. So, unless you don't agree with park and league adjustments, wRC+ is just a better wOBA.

I didnt know that about wRC+. I thought it was a completely different stat. Yup, if that's the case, wRC+ is better than wOBA. 

[Jack Parkman]

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/tom-tangos-triple-slash-conundrum/

Interesting article about how batting average means nothing over a large sample size, and why power rules in today's game. 

[daggins]

yeah wRC+ is the shit, love looking at one number and knowing "cool, this guy is 21% better than a league average hitter"

[bmags]

obp is nice to tell you how often they are on base compared to their opportunities but yes, not as great to let you know how often they hit home runs.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Putting a ball in play for a hit is more valuable than walking - it's a small advantage but enough to give player A the edge.

A walk cannot advance a runner two bases. A walk cannot drive in a run from 2nd or 3rd. 

A walk cannot generate an error leading to an extra base. We're talking 1 or 2 runs of added value but it matters.

That small difference is why A is the answer.

That article is not at all arguing that BA doesn't matter Jack. It's just stating that power can cancel out a lack of contact skills.

[Dominikk85]

13 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/tom-tangos-triple-slash-conundrum/

Interesting article about how batting average means nothing over a large sample size, and why power rules in today's game. 

Batting average is a bad stat to judge a player but it isn't really right that BA doesn't matter. Sure it is better to hit 270 with 40 bombs than 300 with 6 but it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. The very top hitters like trout, miggy, votto, jd Martinez, mookie Betts hit for average and power.

BA isn't everything but if you look at mike trouts career his line is 306/419/582 with a 276 ISO and a 1001 ops.

This means 306/419=73% of his obp are created by his BA while his slugging is about 50/50 power and average.  The importance of power and walks have grown but still 60% of trouts value is from his ability to hit for average.

Now there are a few guys like peak Adam Dunn who run astronomical walk and power to a good line despite below average hit tool but for the vast majority of hitters the hit tool is still the most important thing albeit you need power too of course in the modern game. But there are not many star players with a sub 50 hit tool albeit sub 50 power is rare too.