Abreu “as valuable as anything” to Sox: Merkin

[kitekrazy]

18 hours ago, ron883 said:

You bring up a good point. Probably worth it just rolling with him for one more year at a big-time discount until Vaughn is ready. See what you've got within the org and pursue a DH in free agency next off-season if need be. 

 

23 hours ago, bmags said:

Would you rather acquire brandon belt for players + a 2 year, 34 million dollar deal to get back a slightly better OPS+, or would you just re-sign abreu for a likely discounted deal.

If we are going to replace Abreu let's get on with it then.

 Maybe, just maybe, this time, the Sox will have success with a player who has faced NL pitching is whole career?   That would be the definition of insanity.

[Jose Abreu]

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I think the whole Cuban Ambassador thing is highly over blown.  Almost the entire team is native Spanish speaking.  And "leadership" in baseball is kind of a meme.  He's not worth 2 or 3 years to be a Spanish speaking clubhouse guy.  

Give him 1 year.  If he wants 2 years make it a club option.  

Just because Cubans speak the same language as those from other Spanish-speaking countries does not mean that they can all be lumped together as the same. The culture in Cuba, as well as the journey from Cuba to America, are vastly different from the cultures and journeys from other Spanish-speaking countries. It's one thing to think that baseball leadership is overrated, but pretending that a Cuban player offers the same leadership to younger Cuban players as any Spanish-speaking player is just flat out wrong. 

[BackDoorBreach]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Just because Cubans speak the same language as those from other Spanish-speaking countries does not mean that they can all be lumped together as the same. The culture in Cuba, as well as the journey from Cuba to America, are vastly different from the cultures and journeys from other Spanish-speaking countries. It's one thing to think that baseball leadership is overrated, but pretending that a Cuban player offers the same leadership to younger Cuban players as any Spanish-speaking player is just flat out wrong. 

What does any of that have to do with playing baseball?  Jose getting his boat shot at while fleeing Cuba does not add +5 to Luis Robert's Power attribute. Being Cuban should not be a factor when deciding to hold on to a guy.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

21 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

So are you willing to pay him based on what "wouldn't be shocking"?

1 year DH around $10 M . Yea pay him. Wasn't it you who said our DH's this year have an OPS in the .580 range ? Abreu would be a nice upgrade for about what we paid Alonso this year.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 8/14/2019 at 8:32 PM, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=1b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31

The 1B ahead of Abreu.  He’s 17/23.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=dh&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31

9 DH’s with a positive value.  Arguably, only JD Martinez and Meadows weren’t available to the Sox in the last 2-3 seasons.

 

 

Arguably JD Martinez was available or perhaps I should say he was definitely available . I know me and fathom wanted him when the Red Sox seemed to be the only ones who wanted him and signed him to a very unique contract. That was in the early stages of the rebuild however so the Sox weren't interested. Available yes , interested , no.

[pcq]

20 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

What does any of that have to do with playing baseball?  Jose getting his boat shot at while fleeing Cuba does not add +5 to Luis Robert's Power attribute. Being Cuban should not be a factor when deciding to hold on to a guy.

Why so stubborn. We have had an inside lane with the Cubans and it's a good thing. 

[pcq]

40 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

1 year DH around $10 M . Yea pay him. Wasn't it you who said our DH's this year have an OPS in the .580 range ? Abreu would be a nice upgrade for about what we paid Alonso this year.

I expect Abreu will get a couple more years good or bad and become a fixture with the org. Minnie's successor. 

[Balta1701]

43 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

1 year DH around $10 M . Yea pay him. Wasn't it you who said our DH's this year have an OPS in the .580 range ? Abreu would be a nice upgrade for about what we paid Alonso this year.

at what salary level do you become unhappy with it?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

at what salary level do you become unhappy with it?

For 1 year anything above $12M but if I were the FO i would wait and see who else we sign 1st to get a clearer picture of payroll available and see if Abreu is serious about staying with the Sox as he fields other offers.

When a guy says he will be on the Sox next year no matter what or something to that effect then you have to call him on it and test it and if he signs somewhere else so be it.

Edited August 16, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Bob Sacamano]

 

49 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

at what salary level do you become unhappy with it?

I mean they're paying Alonso $9 mill this year...

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 years/$24M, who says no to that offer Sox or Abreu?

[greg775]

4 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

 

I mean they're paying Alonso $9 mill this year...

Great point. Rather than waste a second blasting Abreu and expressing desire to let him walk, fans IMO should think about this over and over. Alonso got 9 million. Where's the outrage. What wasted cash. Paying Abreu is the right thing to do. It's just monopoly money, folks, to those owners. Alonso gets 9 mill for NOTHING.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Great point. Rather than waste a second blasting Abreu and expressing desire to let him walk, fans IMO should think about this over and over. Alonso got 9 million. Where's the outrage. What wasted cash. Paying Abreu is the right thing to do. It's just monopoly money, folks, to those owners. Alonso gets 9 mill for NOTHING.

$9 mill for a half a season of a whopping -1.1 WAR.

[vilehoopster]

On 8/15/2019 at 2:27 PM, BackDoorBreach said:

I think the whole Cuban Ambassador thing is highly over blown.  Almost the entire team is native Spanish speaking.  And "leadership" in baseball is kind of a meme.  He's not worth 2 or 3 years to be a Spanish speaking clubhouse guy.  

Give him 1 year.  If he wants 2 years make it a club option.  

These are the words of a guy who never coached in high stress situations. I coached high school basketball in Indiana for over 15 years and I’m telling you team leadership and modeling a strong work ethic is really important. If anything it’s underrated. It doesn’t show in games. Everybody bust their asses in games when the crowd is watching. Where it matters is in practice. 

If have seniors who understand and value drill and practices, you’re gonna get better as the year goes on and pass teams that were better than you at the start of the season. Stuff like that is contagious. If you have seniors who dog it and do just enough to not get yelled at, who snipe and b**** in the locker room, that stuff is even more contagious, and you will underachieve, maybe really underachieve.

Remember before the all star game when people on here keep asking how the Sox could be only 2 or 3 games under .500 with their starting pitching, injuries, and other problems. And I know things turned ugly after all-star game, but the ship seems to have righted itself. Anyway, when a team overachieves like that, there’s some positive intangibles happening in the clubhouse, some serious leadership, both verbally and modeling hard work. And everyone you talk to, players and staff, all point to that positive presence as Abreu. That stuff is important, and if you don’t think so, you don’t really know sports. Ask any coach in any sport.

We can debate whether Abreu is a really good or just an average 1st baseman, and though I argue against the claims he’s only average, I can see the arguments for the other side. 

But to claim that locker room or clubhouse atmosphere and leadership have no value, or even little value, when it comes to wins and losses, I’m sorry you lose all credibility with me.

 

[ron883]

2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

These are the words of a guy who never coached in high stress situations. I coached high school basketball in Indiana for over 15 years and I’m telling you team leadership and modeling a strong work ethic is really important. If anything it’s underrated. It doesn’t show in games. Everybody bust their asses in games when the crowd is watching. Where it matters is in practice. 

If have seniors who understand and value drill and practices, you’re gonna get better as the year goes on and pass teams that were better than you at the start of the season. Stuff like that is contagious. If you have seniors who dog it and do just enough to not get yelled at, who snipe and b**** in the locker room, that stuff is even more contagious, and you will underachieve, maybe really underachieve.

Remember before the all star game when people on here keep asking how the Sox could be only 2 or 3 games under .500 with their starting pitching, injuries, and other problems. And I know things turned ugly after all-star game, but the ship seems to have righted itself. Anyway, when a team overachieves like that, there’s some positive intangibles happening in the clubhouse, some serious leadership, both verbally and modeling hard work. And everyone you talk to, players and staff, all point to that positive presence as Abreu. That stuff is important, and if you don’t think so, you don’t really know sports. Ask any coach in any sport.

We can debate whether Abreu is a really good or just an average 1st baseman, and though I argue against the claims he’s only average, I can see the arguments for the other side. 

But to claim that locker room or clubhouse atmosphere and leadership have no value, or even little value, when it comes to wins and losses, I’m sorry you lose all credibility with me.

 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

These are the words of a guy who never coached in high stress situations. I coached high school basketball in Indiana for over 15 years and I’m telling you team leadership and modeling a strong work ethic is really important. If anything it’s underrated. It doesn’t show in games. Everybody bust their asses in games when the crowd is watching. Where it matters is in practice. 

If have seniors who understand and value drill and practices, you’re gonna get better as the year goes on and pass teams that were better than you at the start of the season. Stuff like that is contagious. If you have seniors who dog it and do just enough to not get yelled at, who snipe and b**** in the locker room, that stuff is even more contagious, and you will underachieve, maybe really underachieve.

Remember before the all star game when people on here keep asking how the Sox could be only 2 or 3 games under .500 with their starting pitching, injuries, and other problems. And I know things turned ugly after all-star game, but the ship seems to have righted itself. Anyway, when a team overachieves like that, there’s some positive intangibles happening in the clubhouse, some serious leadership, both verbally and modeling hard work. And everyone you talk to, players and staff, all point to that positive presence as Abreu. That stuff is important, and if you don’t think so, you don’t really know sports. Ask any coach in any sport.

We can debate whether Abreu is a really good or just an average 1st baseman, and though I argue against the claims he’s only average, I can see the arguments for the other side. 

But to claim that locker room or clubhouse atmosphere and leadership have no value, or even little value, when it comes to wins and losses, I’m sorry you lose all credibility with me.

 

I agree with you. The stat people I believe think this is utter b.s. It's all about advanced stats baby and in the White Sox case many fans on here seem to want every player with exceptional advanced stats in the lineup at the same time. For instance, Abreu draws either a.) a big yawn from fans or b.) anger at the thought of paying him 12 million or more a year. This seemingly terrorizes fans even though the Sox don't need the money. 9 million to Alonso, LOL.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

I feel like people have used this pic on you before if I'm being completely honest.

[Moan4Yoan]

I am pretty sure the majority of SoxTalk has no problem bringing Abreu back on a 1-2 year deal but no longer than that and ideally at a nice hometown discount.  Most reasonable Sox fans realize that Abreu is likely on the decline but he can still be productive as a DH and part-time 1B for a year or two.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[Chicago White Sox]

The biggest concern with Abreu IMO is he’s suddenly not very good against RHP.  That might be a SSS issue / bad luck or the start of a downward trend, but if real and brought back you know Renteria will still bat him third or fourth against every RHP.  And that would suck, especially if they continue to roll him out at 1B most days.  I truly believe Jose can still provide some value over next couple years, but I really worry we won’t use him effectively.

[Thad Bosley]

12 hours ago, ron883 said:

You really need to up your game around here if you even remotely thought this pic was either the appropriate and/or funny response to the poster’s well-described view on the importance of leadership.   This dopey pic didn’t make a shred of sense as a response to that.   

[ron883]

3 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

You really need to up your game around here if you even remotely thought this pic was either the appropriate and/or funny response to the poster’s well-described view on the importance of leadership.   This dopey pic didn’t make a shred of sense as a response to that.   

[Thad Bosley]

26 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Cute, but just remember - this pic is EXACTLY what’s going through people’s minds every time they read one of your silly Abreu rants.  

[BackDoorBreach]

16 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

These are the words of a guy who never coached in high stress situations. I coached high school basketball in Indiana for over 15 years and I’m telling you team leadership and modeling a strong work ethic is really important. If anything it’s underrated. It doesn’t show in games. Everybody bust their asses in games when the crowd is watching. Where it matters is in practice. 

 

Lol, it's baseball dude. Leadership in baseball is a meme.

[greg775]

13 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I am pretty sure the majority of SoxTalk has no problem bringing Abreu back on a 1-2 year deal but no longer than that and ideally at a nice hometown discount.  Most reasonable Sox fans realize that Abreu is likely on the decline but he can still be productive as a DH and part-time 1B for a year or two.

I agree with your post. However, out of respect to Jose and to motivate him even more, he should get a third year, team option.

[ron883]

29 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I agree with your post. However, out of respect to Jose and to motivate him even more, he should get a third year, team option.

I wonder if a third year would motivate him to not play dogshit defense when playing 1st