Jack Parkman Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, fathom said: I saw you mention Musgrove for Lopez twice today. That seems like selling low on Lopez. Musgrove hasn’t dominated the NL. I agree with this, and I'm not particularly high on Lopez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 If the White Sox go out and sign garbage like Ivan Nova when their window just opens with zero payroll I'll be livid. I know a lot of others that would be as well. They didn't tear down this team to continue signing shit players. The FO knew going into this year we were still a year or 2 away. There is zero reason to sign players because they are cheap going into 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’d rather give someone like Wacha who offers some semblance of upside a few million more on a bounce back deal. He could start next year in the rotation and be in the mix for an extended rotation spot with strong performance and/or an injury to another starter. If you are going to go dumpster diving, this is the way it should be done. Don’t go after guys you know will simply be mediocre if they stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: After the high end options there is a massive drop off. You go from the MadBum/Ryu/Wheeler tier directly to the Nova tier Odorizzi probably belongs there as well, although he had one terrible start in his recent stretch. The Wood love is fading just a bit, but pitchers coming back from injury deserve more time to make assessments. I think most of us much prefer a Wood/Wacha type of player who does present some tangible upside compared to Nova yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Just now, BackDoorBreach said: If the White Sox go out and sign garbage like Ivan Nova when their window just opens with zero payroll I'll be livid. I know a lot of others that would be as well. They didn't tear down this team to continue signing shit players. The FO knew going into this year we were still a year or 2 away. There is zero reason to sign players because they are cheap going into 2020. If they sign Nova he serves a purpose. He's insurance for Kopech and can slide in to the rotation in case of injury. Nobody's advocating to avoid the top tier pitchers; landing one is a must. I'd just rather it not be Ryu or Wheeler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Musgrove has 1 year less control than Lopez. Suddenly, everyone is a huge fan of Lopez? Lol. Had me fooled. Musgrove is so mediocre that he has the same fWAR as Manny Machado this year. What does that make Machado? Machado is having a down year, no doubt. However, you seem to think this is who Machado is now, which I disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Odorizzi probably belongs there as well, although he had one terrible start in his recent stretch. The Wood love is fading just a bit, but pitchers coming back from injury deserve more time to make assessments. I think most of us much prefer a Wood/Wacha type of player who does present some tangible upside compared to Nova yet again. Look at Odorizzi's peripherals. He's in the Wood/Wacha tier of "a little upside left" He's had a good year but it's based on batted ball luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: If they sign Nova he serves a purpose. He's insurance for Kopech and can slide in to the rotation in case of injury. Nobody's advocating to avoid the top tier pitchers; landing one is a must. I'd just rather it not be Ryu or Wheeler. You're assuming he's going to agree to be a long man/spot starter. I'll put that at 0% chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said: Machado is having a down year, no doubt. However, you seem to think this is who Machado is now, which I disagree with. And Leury Garcia/Tim Anderson had similar fWAR's a month or so ago, which means exactly nothing without looking at context...this whole obsession with attacking Manny Machado is just weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Look at Odorizzi's peripherals. He's in the Wood/Wacha tier of "a little upside left" He's had a good year but it's based on batted ball luck. Well, maybe we can hire someone from the Rangers who identified Lance Lynn and especially Minor for this season...because that's EXACTLY what the White Sox need again, someone who can sort out those guys and find the one diamond in a rough out of 10 or 20 guys. Ryu makes me uneasy because 1) his health, 2) success mostly confined to NL, 3) he's going to get overpaid by quite a bit based on his numbers this season vs. the entire breadth of his career. He has been a really good pitcher, when healthy, but you just have a feeling guys like him or Rich Hill wouldn't work nearly so well with other organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: And Leury Garcia/Tim Anderson had similar fWAR's a month or so ago, which means exactly nothing without looking at context...this whole obsession with attacking Manny Machado is just weird. Because he’s the most overrated player in baseball on this site imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said: Machado is having a down year, no doubt. However, you seem to think this is who Machado is now, which I disagree with. I'm actually with him. I honestly think Harper and Machado are 3-4 WAR players going forward. I'm actually glad that they bowed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm actually with him. I honestly think Harper and Machado are 3-4 WAR players going forward. I'm actually glad that they bowed out. What are you basing a 5.4 fWAR player (average from 2015-2018) at age 26/27 falling off by that much? The AL East arguably was better overall pitching than the NL, once you get past the Dodgers and DBacks (especially without Greinke now.) PetCo factor, alone? Harper is the one who's mostly been at the lower numbers except for his one 9.3 fWAR season four years ago, and has graded out inconsistently on defense. It feels like a big chunk of his numbers have been coming from OBP/walks. This year, before that Cubs' game, it seems like he failed in almost every clutch situation this season where he had an opportunity to drive in runs. Edited August 20, 2019 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm actually with him. I honestly think Harper and Machado are 3-4 WAR players going forward. I'm actually glad that they bowed out. Quite frankly, he’s still got some work to do before he hits 3 fWAR for this season. Just wait until his defense starts to erode in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 How did that Abreu homerun look on TV? The fans here were stunned and the people sitting next to me thought it went foul because the outfielders didn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Quite frankly, he’s still got some work to do before he hits 3 fWAR for this season. Just wait until his defense starts to erode in a few years. Then how do you explain Josh Donaldson sustaining his success later than age 26/27, or Arenado...just a couple of examples. Matt Carpenter, until this season, was a very effective player as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: After the high end options there is a massive drop off. You go from the MadBum/Ryu/Wheeler tier directly to the Nova tier What are you taking about? Hamels, Gibson, Keuchel, Odorizzi, Roark, Wood, Pineda, Porcello, Miley, & Gonzalez are all better and I’d much rather roll the dice on Wacha, Smyly, & maybe even Chacin than Nova next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Just now, caulfield12 said: What are you basing a 5.4 fWAR player at age 26/27 falling off by that much? The AL East arguably was better overall pitching than the NL, once you get past the Dodgers and DBacks (especially without Greinke now.) PetCo factor, alone? Harper is the one who's mostly been at the lower numbers except for his one 9.3 fWAR season four years ago, and has graded out inconsistently on defense. It feels like a big chunk of his numbers have been coming from OBP/walks. This year, before that Cubs' game, it seems like he failed in almost every clutch situation this season where he had an opportunity to drive in runs. You might not want to check Manny’s clutch stats this season. His high leverage splits are worse than Abreu’s ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Because he’s the most overrated player in baseball on this site imo I am sick of hearing about him myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What are you taking about? Hamels, Gibson, Keuchel, Odorizzi, Roark, Wood, Pineda, Porcello, Miley, & Gonzalez are all better and I’d much rather roll the dice on Wacha, Smyly, & maybe even Chacin than Nova next year. Miley's a really interesting case. He has been SO good, and unexpectedly so, I can't imagine the Astros letting him go so easily as they did with Morton, especially with Whitley's troubles this year. They do have McCullers coming back, supposedly, but who knows how well that takes with his history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I like second half Nova. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: What are you taking about? Hamels, Gibson, Keuchel, Odorizzi, Roark, Wood, Pineda, Porcello, Miley, & Gonzalez are all better and I’d much rather roll the dice on Wacha, Smyly, & maybe even Chacin than Nova next year. Outside of maybe Keuchel, Pineda and Roark I think all of those guys are, in fact, in the Nova tier. Edited August 20, 2019 by Jack Parkman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba phillips Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 hours ago, pcq said: Pretty impressive. So we should let the pitchers bat. 2 hours ago, soxfan49 said: Easy solution: Make Abreu the permanent DH. Let someone who can actually field the position play 1B. I know he wants to play in the field, but he's got to realize that he's hurting the team with his glove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, SoxAce said: I like second half Nova. I was one of his haters...but since he's picked up his pace a bit...he's a different pitchers. A win tonight would put him at .500 with a team winning at a .447 clip. He's holding up his end of the deal. I would like to say Coop fixed him...but even I don't believe that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: What are you basing a 5.4 fWAR player (average from 2015-2018) at age 26/27 falling off by that much? The AL East arguably was better overall pitching than the NL, once you get past the Dodgers and DBacks (especially without Greinke now.) PetCo factor, alone? Harper is the one who's mostly been at the lower numbers except for his one 9.3 fWAR season four years ago, and has graded out inconsistently on defense. It feels like a big chunk of his numbers have been coming from OBP/walks. This year, before that Cubs' game, it seems like he failed in almost every clutch situation this season where he had an opportunity to drive in runs. You should probably look up his clutch numbers. Sorry forget what it's called. I 'm pretty sure he is among the best if not the best in the NL (Harper) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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