Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

[greg775]

6 hours ago, ron883 said:

Gotta cover his back while he breaks the law on camera. Outlaw Jose and his fat lippers

If it's against the law, arrest him. If not, leave him be. If it's against baseball's rules suspend him. If not let him be.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

I appreciate your commitment to this level of trolling.

We need to put Greg, Vile and Ron in the Octagon.  One man will survive the other two will be exiled to WSI.

[gusguyman]

On 9/8/2019 at 11:24 AM, greg775 said:

Abreu is up to 30 homers and 111 RBIs. Are you bleeping me? Do you folks realize how impressive this is for a team as bad as the White Sox? I'd like to ask somebody if a Jose appreciation thread is appropriate? I think it is. Being that most realize Jose is one of my favorite Sox of all time I probably should not go there and start one lest I get accused of inciting his detractors and put on vacation. So I'd just like to say, 111 RBIs. Albert Belle once had 152 for the Sox which is insane. 30 HRS; Belle once had 49. Jose has earned his paycheck this season, folks.

I hope Jose got a loud long ovation Saturday night for homer No. 30. I'm thinking the fans who go to games appreciate him. It has to be fun to watch him bat when you pay good money for a game. 

Please stop implying that any fan who doesn't want to resign Abreu is suddenly dismissing his history with the White Sox.

There is no denying Abreu has had an incredible run with us. Most of us will always love him for that. If you are a sentimental fan, that means you want him on the team forever. That is fine.

If you are an armchair-GM fan, you are more concerned with what he will be over the lifespan of an X year contract than with what he has been. That is fine too. 

Fans approach the game in different ways. One is not necessarily better than the other. No matter how his tenure with the Sox ends, if I ever ran into Abreu in person I would giddily ask for a picture, buy him a drink, and thank him for so many great years. I also think the team, which shouldn't be run on sentimentality, should bring him back in 1 year increments at most. These things are not in conflict.

When someone starts trying to say Abreu was anything but amazing from 2014-2017 (and still good since then), you can get back on your high horse. Until then, stop tilting at windmills. 

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

When someone starts trying to say Abreu was anything but amazing from 2014-2017 (and still good since then), you can get back on your high horse. Until then, stop tilting at windmills. 

You can't deny there's a weird vibe on this board surrounding Abreu. Like you saying I'm on a high horse. I'm a fan trying to praise a veteran White Sox player who has had one of the most consistent seasons of a Sox player in a while. He had one little, what was it, two week slump? Aside from that he's raking. I'm trying to stand up for and praise a player. Why is this about me being on a high horse. Man ... times have changed. You can get in trouble on a team's message board by praising a player too much. Weird vibe for sure.

[Greg Hibbard]

7 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

Please stop implying that any fan who doesn't want to resign Abreu is suddenly dismissing his history with the White Sox.

There is no denying Abreu has had an incredible run with us. Most of us will always love him for that. If you are a sentimental fan, that means you want him on the team forever. That is fine.

If you are an armchair-GM fan, you are more concerned with what he will be over the lifespan of an X year contract than with what he has been. That is fine too. 

Fans approach the game in different ways. One is not necessarily better than the other. No matter how his tenure with the Sox ends, if I ever ran into Abreu in person I would giddily ask for a picture, buy him a drink, and thank him for so many great years. I also think the team, which shouldn't be run on sentimentality, should bring him back in 1 year increments at most. These things are not in conflict.

When someone starts trying to say Abreu was anything but amazing from 2014-2017 (and still good since then), you can get back on your high horse. Until then, stop tilting at windmills. 

There's been absolutely no diminishment to Abreu's game, if we look at 2019 numbers versus 2015-2018. In 2014, he was on a different level.

So, armchair-GMs, why on earth wouldn't you want to keep him here until he demonstrates that there is diminishment in his game? He's a remarkably consistent offensive producer.

[gusguyman]

Just now, greg775 said:

You can't deny there's a weird vibe on this board surrounding Abreu. Like you saying I'm on a high horse. I'm a fan trying to praise a veteran White Sox player who has had one of the most consistent seasons of a Sox player in a while. He had one little, what was it, two week slump? Aside from that he's raking. I'm trying to stand up for and praise a player. Why is this about me being on a high horse. Man ... times have changed. You can get in trouble on a team's message board by praising a player too much. Weird vibe for sure.

I can and do deny it. You can praise him all you want. You get in "trouble" because you can't seem to praise him without slighting almost every other poster for not also praising him. 

After a bad May and a putrid July his stats were low enough to open up fair questions about his play this season. He recovered nicely (to your credit, you were on the correct side of those debates). He has had a good year. That doesn't mean he will next year, or the year after. There is no conspiracy. We don't hate Jose just because we are not opposed to moving on.

[chitownsportsfan]

53 minutes ago, greg775 said:

You can't deny there's a weird vibe on this board surrounding Abreu. Like you saying I'm on a high horse. I'm a fan trying to praise a veteran White Sox player who has had one of the most consistent seasons of a Sox player in a while. He had one little, what was it, two week slump? Aside from that he's raking. I'm trying to stand up for and praise a player. Why is this about me being on a high horse. Man ... times have changed. You can get in trouble on a team's message board by praising a player too much. Weird vibe for sure.

[bubba phillips]

For a guy who has averaged over 30 HR's and 100 RBI over the 5 years he has played at least 140 games, he sure doesn't get a lot of love.  I don't remember anyone getting so much grief. 

The chewing tobacco thing is especially idiotic.  Every see the size of the chaw Nellie Fox had in his face all the time?  Yea, it might be illegal in Chicago now, but is it hurting anyone?  Are people suffering from "second hand juice" when he spits?  

 

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Greg Hibbard said:

So, armchair-GMs, why on earth wouldn't you want to keep him here until he demonstrates that there is diminishment in his game? He's a remarkably consistent offensive producer.

I think when he's a player on the team you follow and you are an analytics person, there's much more of a "fear" of decline than if the guy was on some other team. In the past fans on here have been OK with the Sox going after various guys with much more alarming age and stats than Jose. They want to head off the diminishment in his game which they feel is coming rapidly in his case because of his analytics/age.

My take is we have a zillion good players for the rebuilt team and he'll be fine next year at first and DH after that IF Vaughn is good. Also Sox have pinched pennies and I know they can afford 12 mill a year for Jose for 2 years.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, bubba phillips said:

For a guy who has averaged over 30 HR's and 100 RBI over the 5 years he has played at least 140 games, he sure doesn't get a lot of love.  I don't remember anyone getting so much grief. 

For a guy who is a decent offensive producer on a really bad team he also gets a ridiculous amount of praise from some people. We may not have any issue with Jose Abreu, but we may be tired of people treating him like he's way better than he is. We're literally in a thread where the team is assuring the guy he's got a lifetime contract according to the headline, when he's not even the best 1b we've had in the last decade. A lifetime contract guarantee isn't a lot of "grief". 

[ron883]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For a guy who is a decent offensive producer on a really bad team he also gets a ridiculous amount of praise from some people. We may not have any issue with Jose Abreu, but we may be tired of people treating him like he's way better than he is. We're literally in a thread where the team is assuring the guy he's got a lifetime contract according to the headline, when he's not even the best 1b we've had in the last decade. A lifetime contract guarantee isn't a lot of "grief". 

A lifetime contract is nice and all, but anything short of a statue at the stadium is a disgrace. He deserves to be right there next to Big Frank

[Moan4Yoan]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For a guy who is a decent offensive producer on a really bad team he also gets a ridiculous amount of praise from some people. We may not have any issue with Jose Abreu, but we may be tired of people treating him like he's way better than he is. We're literally in a thread where the team is assuring the guy he's got a lifetime contract according to the headline, when he's not even the best 1b we've had in the last decade. A lifetime contract guarantee isn't a lot of "grief". 

I just look at it this way.  He's still productive offensively.  He is terrible on defense.  We may be able to sign him to a team friendly deal because obviously he doesn't want to leave Chicago which he has appeared to make his home and Reinsdorf and the Sox want him around until he is done as a player and likely afterwards as a Sox ambassador.  Abreu likely knows he can have a career with the Sox like Frank Thomas after he is done as a ball player, which is why he wants to stick around.  He isn't stupid.  Abreu knows he can make some money after his playing career is over with some Buona Beef or Nugenix commercials.

If Abreu trusts Reinsdorf so much and he wants to be a lifetime White Sox, he can sign with the Sox to a team friendly deal for 2 years and then go to 1 year deals after that if he can still hit.  But he damn well better move to DH full-time once Andrew Vaughn is MLB ready and our manager (hopefully not still Ricky) had better start batting him lower in the lineup than cleanup if he isn't the same hitter he was and/or other players are more productive offensively.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[greg775]

6 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I just look at it this way.  He's still productive offensively.  He is terrible on defense.  We may be able to sign him to a team friendly deal because obviously he doesn't want to leave Chicago which he has appeared to make his home and Reinsdorf and the Sox want him around until he is done as a player and likely afterwards as a Sox ambassador.  Abreu likely knows he can have a career with the Sox like Frank Thomas after he is done as a ball player, which is why he wants to stick around.  He isn't stupid.  Abreu knows he can make some money after his playing career is over with some Buona Beef or Nugenix commercials.

If Abreu trusts Reinsdorf so much and he wants to be a lifetime White Sox, he can sign with the Sox to a team friendly deal for 2 years and then go to 1 year deals after that if he can still hit.  But he damn well better move to DH full-time once Andrew Vaughn is MLB ready and our manager (hopefully not still Ricky) had better start batting him lower in the lineup than cleanup if he isn't the same hitter he was and/or other players are more productive offensively.

That was a nice play by Jose on the pop foul by tonight. I still say he's a C on defense or C-. He's not an F. He digs well and he throws to second well. He goes well to his right, is awful to his left and awful on short flies that go to the outfield. I know a lot of you are passionate about how bad he is on defense so I won't argue that. I just don't happen to agree that he's so bad it would cost us a WS.

The man appears to be in his prime as a hitter is what I'd say. He crushed that pitch tonight though baseball has become home run derby I'll give u that.

I know a lot of you are penciling Vaughn in for stardom. That excites me. Is there any chance he could fail? Or is he a Trout-like can't miss talent? I know this board pretty much is assuming greatness the same way I assumed Eloy greatness. And Eloy is can't miss.

One final point: With superstars in Moncada and Eloy and some other guys our manager has no excuse not to start winning a majority of ballgames starting next year. Get him some pitching, Mr. Hahn. Moncada and Eloy are gonna put up monster numbers and I happen to think Jose puts up monster numbers already.

Edited September 12, 2019 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, greg775 said:

That was a nice play by Jose on the pop foul by tonight. I still say he's a C on defense or C-. He's not an F. He digs well and he throws to second well. He goes well to his right, is awful to his left and awful on short flies that go to the outfield. I know a lot of you are passionate about how bad he is on defense so I won't argue that. I just don't happen to agree that he's so bad it would cost us a WS.

The man appears to be in his prime as a hitter is what I'd say. He crushed that pitch tonight though baseball has become home run derby I'll give u that.

I know a lot of you are penciling Vaughn in for stardom. That excites me. Is there any chance he could fail? Or is he a Trout-like can't miss talent? I know this board pretty much is assuming greatness the same way I assumed Eloy greatness. And Eloy is can't miss.

One final point: With superstars in Moncada and Eloy and some other guys our manager has no excuse not to start winning a majority of ballgames starting next year. Get him some pitching, Mr. Hahn. Moncada and Eloy are gonna put up monster numbers and I happen to think Jose puts up monster numbers already.

Defensively, he is really good with pop ups and really good throwing to 2nd base on DP attempts. Everything else, he is horrific. But the bat isn't nearly as dead as some here have reported.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Defensively, he is really good with pop ups and really good throwing to 2nd base on DP attempts. Everything else, he is horrific. But the bat isn't nearly as dead as some here have reported.

I'd say he's at least average on digging throws. As far as his bat, fans can watch a replay of last night's homer. He can still catch up to pitches and drive them out of the park. I wonder if fans of Vaughn would be happy with the numbers Abreu has put up at the plate this season? I would think so. 32 Homers and 114 RBIs. Cmon. RBIs can't be that antiquated. they are a sign of production. Is Vaughn considered Hosmer-like on defense? I mean are we talking superstar here? I'll concede Abreu is no superstar but he is a star.

Oh I was going to point out, Rex Hudler on the record said on the broadcast last night "Abreu is one of the best hitters in the American League." Listen. He said it.

Edited September 12, 2019 by greg775

[poppysox]

23 hours ago, gusguyman said:

Please stop implying that any fan who doesn't want to resign Abreu is suddenly dismissing his history with the White Sox.

There is no denying Abreu has had an incredible run with us. Most of us will always love him for that. If you are a sentimental fan, that means you want him on the team forever. That is fine.

If you are an armchair-GM fan, you are more concerned with what he will be over the lifespan of an X year contract than with what he has been. That is fine too. 

Fans approach the game in different ways. One is not necessarily better than the other. No matter how his tenure with the Sox ends, if I ever ran into Abreu in person I would giddily ask for a picture, buy him a drink, and thank him for so many great years. I also think the team, which shouldn't be run on sentimentality, should bring him back in 1 year increments at most. These things are not in conflict.

When someone starts trying to say Abreu was anything but amazing from 2014-2017 (and still good since then), you can get back on your high horse. Until then, stop tilting at windmills. 

Well said.  This explains clearly why a 1 year contract with an option would be ideal.

[Greg Hibbard]

22 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

For a guy who is a decent offensive producer on a really bad team he also gets a ridiculous amount of praise from some people. We may not have any issue with Jose Abreu, but we may be tired of people treating him like he's way better than he is. We're literally in a thread where the team is assuring the guy he's got a lifetime contract according to the headline, when he's not even the best 1b we've had in the last decade. A lifetime contract guarantee isn't a lot of "grief". 

“Decent” offensive producer??

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think like 2 White Sox players in my lifetime have over 20 WAR in six consecutive seasons, Frank and Mags. Paul Konerko never even came close over any six consecutive seasons. And that WAR number is including Jose’s defense. 

[ron883]

21 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

“Decent” offensive producer??

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think like 2 White Sox players in my lifetime have over 20 WAR in six consecutive seasons, Frank and Mags. Paul Konerko never even came close over any six consecutive seasons. And that WAR number is including Jose’s defense. 

Wrong again Hibbard. Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Robin Ventura, Buehrle

 

Jose hasn't eclipsed 20 fWAR yet. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by ron883

[poppysox]

I believe Hibbard was referring to offensive players...and his primary point is that Jose has been better "decent."  You are correct that Ventura was omitted from his original recollection of our elite long term hitters.

[Greg Hibbard]

43 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I believe Hibbard was referring to offensive players...and his primary point is that Jose has been better "decent."  You are correct that Ventura was omitted from his original recollection of our elite long term hitters.

Yes, obviously I meant offensive players. And I did forget Ventura

[ron883]

At this point, do you just offer him the qualifying offer? Assuming it is ~18m. He has played himself into a better contract than previously thought. If he accepts, you have him at least another year at a not so bad cost. He declines, you get draft lick compensation. This is assuming a team doesn't wait to sign him

[Thad Bosley]

6 hours ago, ron883 said:

At this point, do you just offer him the qualifying offer? Assuming it is ~18m. He has played himself into a better contract than previously thought. If he accepts, you have him at least another year at a not so bad cost. He declines, you get draft lick compensation. This is assuming a team doesn't wait to sign him

What about the part where the White Sox want him for more than just one year, at this point?

[Balta1701]

6 hours ago, ron883 said:

At this point, do you just offer him the qualifying offer? Assuming it is ~18m. He has played himself into a better contract than previously thought. If he accepts, you have him at least another year at a not so bad cost. He declines, you get draft lick compensation. This is assuming a team doesn't wait to sign him

You know what? That's not a bad suggestion and I hadn't thought about it.

[Moan4Yoan]

14 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

What about the part where the White Sox want him for more than just one year, at this point?

This is a great idea.  You get him on your terms for one year, albeit probably at a slightly higher salary for the year.  But if Abreu wants more years, you get a pick.  Unfortunately, I think the Sox respect Abreu too much to pigeonhole him like this.  It would be a great baseball/business move however.

Edited September 13, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

What about the part where the White Sox want him for more than just one year, at this point?

After his hot streak. He wasn't worth the QO earlier in the season. It's still debatable if he is honestly.