Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

[ron883]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

This is a great idea.  You get him on your terms for one year, albeit probably at a slightly higher salary for the year.  But if Abreu wants more years, you get a pick.  Unfortunately, I think the Sox respect Abreu too much to pigeonhole him like this.  It would be a great baseball/business move however.

That's what I'm afraid of. There's a chance he doesn't get signed until midseason like Kimbrel and Keuchel. He might not be worth losing the draft pick to teams. 

[Bob Sacamano]

51 minutes ago, ron883 said:

That's what I'm afraid of. There's a chance he doesn't get signed until midseason like Kimbrel and Keuchel. He might not be worth losing the draft pick to teams. 

I don't think he would get offered a QO. If he is offered a QO, 1 of 2 things happens: 1. he accepts or 2. he rejects and re-signs for less than the QO on a one or two year deal.  No team is going to give up draft pick for him.

Edited September 13, 2019 by soxfan2014

[Thad Bosley]

2 hours ago, Moan4Yoan said:

 I think the Sox respect Abreu too much ...

...which is why they are going to make him a White Sox for life at this point, however way that turns out to be.  You may as well get use to it.  

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

That's what I'm afraid of. There's a chance he doesn't get signed until midseason like Kimbrel and Keuchel. He might not be worth losing the draft pick to teams. 

Those situations only happened because the teams that those players left didn't want them back or were up against the tax and couldn't bring them back.  The White Sox can totally bring Abreu back if they want to; him turning down the offer makes it far less likely that he'd sign elsewhere.

[Leonard Zelig]

19 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

...which is why they are going to make him a White Sox for life at this point, however way that turns out to be.  You may as well get use to it.  

This has to be the most ironic/hypocritical post I've seen in a while on here.  The poster who has been making daily complaints for years about ownership tells someone to "get used to it".

[ron883]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Those situations only happened because the teams that those players left didn't want them back or were up against the tax and couldn't bring them back.  The White Sox can totally bring Abreu back if they want to; him turning down the offer makes it far less likely that he'd sign elsewhere.

I'm thinking moreso if they decide to give Jose a qualifying offer in hopes that he declines. Does any team sign him at the expense of a draft pick? You sign Castellanos instead and get a draft pick on top of it 

[Balta1701]

Just now, ron883 said:

I'm thinking moreso if they decide to give Jose a qualifying offer in hopes that he declines. Does any team sign him at the expense of a draft pick? You sign Castellanos instead and get a draft pick on top of it 

IMO, no, very good chance he's stuck on the market until midseason if he turns down a QO and doesn't sign with the White Sox. 

[BackDoorBreach]

I don't see any way the Sox offer him a QO.  He's probably going to get a 3 year deal which would be insanely stupid.  Give him a 2 year deal with a club option for the second to give the team some flexibility.

Whatever they decide to do I really hope they explore JDM before signing Abreu back.  

Edited September 13, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[chitownsportsfan]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

You know what? That's not a bad suggestion and I hadn't thought about it.

That's a bad idea because the draft pick is fool's gold and that AAV is 200% too high even at 1 year.  Teams will just wait like they did this year until after the draft to sign him.  And Jose and his agent know that.

Oh, I see you just posted that as a follow up.

This is the most obvious team friendly low ball scenario imaginable.  Offer him 1 year, 1 option year.  AAV around 9-11 million.  He won't get better than that on the open market.  

[Greg Hibbard]

38 days after Ron did a victory lap while dancing on Jose’s grave and essentially called him utterly worthless, he now comes back with Jose is worth maybe 18 million dollars next year. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

I don't think he would get offered a QO. If he is offered a QO, 1 of 2 things happens: 1. he accepts or 2. he rejects and re-signs for less than the QO on a one or two year deal.  No team is going to give up draft pick for him.

100% agree.

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, Leonard Zelig said:

This has to be the most ironic/hypocritical post I've seen in a while on here.  The poster who has been making daily complaints for years about ownership tells someone to "get used to it".

Lol - you need to brush up on your understanding of what the words irony and hypocrisy mean, because your post makes no sense.    

What is either ironic or hypocritical of me suggesting people get used to the idea that the owner is very likely to make Abreu a White Sox for life, and my spot-on overall assessment of the owner's abysmal record over the past four decades?  If anything, my suggestion about how Abreu will be handled is tethered to how the owner typically approaches those he chooses to be loyal to.  

[pcq]

I could see 2x12 plus option. Wondering how JDM player option works with a trade and affects his value. 

[Leonard Zelig]

9 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Lol - you need to brush up on your understanding of what the words irony and hypocrisy mean, because your post makes no sense.    

What is either ironic or hypocritical of me suggesting people get used to the idea that the owner is very likely to make Abreu a White Sox for life, and my spot-on overall assessment of the owner's abysmal record over the past four decades?  If anything, my suggestion about how Abreu will be handled is tethered to how the owner typically approaches those he chooses to be loyal to.  

Except your post didn’t mention anything you just claimed that you suggested.  

[Thad Bosley]

12 hours ago, Leonard Zelig said:

Except your post didn’t mention anything you just claimed that you suggested.  

Oh, Lenny.  What are you doing here.  Trying to stir up trouble where none exists. 

All I said in my original post, to which you recklessly then started accusing me of irony and hypocrisy, was that fans should get used to the fact that Abreu will be a Sox for life due to how the Sox seemingly feel about him.

That’s it, that’s all I said.  Did I explicitly reference the owner’s well-known loyalty program to back up my statement?  No, but I didn’t think that necessary.  Would seem that would be obvious to the kind of diehard fans who frequent this site.  

But now that I know you’re lurking and trying to have a “Gotcha!” moment with me, I’ll be sure to spell it out in more detail the next go around. 

[Leonard Zelig]

12 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Oh, Lenny.  What are you doing here.  Trying to stir up trouble where none exists. 

All I said in my original post, to which you recklessly then started accusing me of irony and hypocrisy, was that fans should get used to the fact that Abreu will be a Sox for life due to how the Sox seemingly feel about him.

That’s it, that’s all I said.  Did I explicitly reference the owner’s well-known loyalty program to back up my statement?  No, but I didn’t think that necessary.  Would seem that would be obvious to the kind of diehard fans who frequent this site.  

But now that I know you’re lurking and trying to have a “Gotcha!” moment with me, I’ll be sure to spell it out in more detail the next go around. 

Ok man, but if you’re going to suggest somebody get used to something, then maybe you should take your own advice.  You know this isn’t the first time you’ve been called out on that. 

[Thad Bosley]

6 hours ago, Leonard Zelig said:

Ok man, but if you’re going to suggest somebody get used to something, then maybe you should take your own advice.  You know this isn’t the first time you’ve been called out on that. 

Stop trying to stir up trouble, Lenny.  It’s not cute.  

[caulfield12]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jose-abreus-return-white-sox-233549151.html

Moncada, Renteria, Anderson foreshadow Abreu staying with the White Sox for the remainder of his career

 

Can Rick Renteria imagine the White Sox shifting into contention mode without Jose Abreu?

"No," he said in a rapid-fire response before the start of the team's final homestand.

"He's been here throughout the early stages of this rebuild," Hahn said during an MLB Network interview in May, "and it's certainly very likely that he'll be here for the more enjoyable stages that lie ahead of us."  Rick Renteria

 

Anderson added his voice to the group advocating for Abreu's return Tuesday.

"He means a lot," Anderson said. "He's leading the way. He was here when we were struggling, so I want him to be here when we're winning. I think it's only right."

[pcq]

Some times a call is made not based on analytics. Is it overly sentimental? Maybe it is the most practical decision. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

And thank God he did!

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

On 8/22/2019 at 1:19 PM, Balta1701 said:

Defensively he's a tick above Abreu and offensively he's a tick below Abreu for each of the last 2 seasons. In fWAR, he has actually outperformed Abreu over the last 2 combined seasons. So if you're saying "That guy sucks" about a guy who has performed comparably to Jose Abreu and who is a similar age...that's exactly why some people are hesitant about a multi year deal or just saying "you'll absolutely be back!" to Abreu. You can't tell me "Justin Smoak sucks!" when he has performed similarly to Jose Abreu without having to say the exact same thing about Jose Abreu. They are very similar overall players for the last 3 years. 

@Balta1701 A classic case where someone overvalues fWAR when comparing players. I remember this debate well and I couldn’t believe a Sox fan would argue Justin Smoak was comparable to Jose Abreu. How’s that working out?

[Chicago White Sox]

Reviewing this thread, I’m not nearly as embarrassed by my posts as I expected to be.  My biggest concern was agreeing to a third year and I think that was a completely fair take at the time.  What’s really remarkable though is how awesome Jose has been against RHP this year, which drove a lot of my concerns.  Look at how we was trending against RHP coming into into the 2020 season.  Who could have seen this coming?  

It’s very clear to me that Jose got himself into better shape this past offseason, but I also think having improved protection behind him and a guy who takes a ton of pitches in front of him in Grandal have really helped as well.  Regardless, kudos to Jose on what has been a legit MVP caliber season.  IMO, no position player has had a bigger impact on their team’s 2020 performance than Abreu and hopefully voters reward him with his first MVP.

• 2014: 155 wRC+, 20.9% K rate, 6.9% BB rate, .250 ISO
• 2015: 147 wRC+, 21.3% K rate, 5.3% BB rate, .240 ISO
• 2016: 120 wRC+, 17.4% K rate, 6.2% BB rate, .159 ISO
• 2017: 128 wRC+, 17.2% K rate, 4.7% BB rate, .239 ISO
• 2018: 107 wRC+, 18.3% K rate, 5.9% BB rate, .196 ISO
• 2019:   99 wRC+, 23.7% K rate, 4.7% BB rate, .215 ISO
• 2020: 166 wRC+, 20.8% K rate, 5.4% BB rate, .293 ISO

[harkness99]

Jose has been a productive player since day 1...  

 

He can be streaky at times - but his production has always been quality has a professional hitter.

Edited September 13, 2020 by harkness99

[smellysox]

Sadly I just read the last 3 pages trying to figure out what was going on.  Why are we having this debate? He's having a great year! And then I saw the September 25 post..... from last year. Never mind. 

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

@Balta1701 A classic case where someone overvalues fWAR when comparing players. I remember this debate well and I couldn’t believe a Sox fan would argue Justin Smoak was comparable to Jose Abreu. How’s that working out?

See, I was expecting some version of this as I deserve it. Jose sure looked like he was slowing down to me to the eyes and in his numbers, and now I'm reevaluating how I think about veteran hitters now that we're seeing guys like Abreu and Cruz do things with the bats that we haven't really seen since the steroid era. 

But "See fWAR doesn't work well!!" is just about the worst version of this take I could possibly imagine. He hasn't suddenly turned himself into a good fielder or baserunner, he's found the best hitter in the world magic that he had when he first came to the states! Justin Smoak didn't become a bad player because of defense or baserunning, he fell apart with the bats!

At least criticize me in a way that makes some sense. Come on.