Reinsdorf assures Ron that Abreu will always be a White Sox

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

1B is a wasteland throughout baseball. There's not a ton of good players there. You have Freeman, Rizzo, Goldschmidt, Pete Alonso and a whole bunch of crap. 

None of which are available this winter.

[Balta1701]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I mean I really don’t understand it. He’s the best available option for 1b next season. I don’t think it’s even debatable when you look at that free agent list and acknowledge guys like Sheets and Vaughn are at least a year away from the bigs. The folks that want him gone have yet to cite a single player better to replace him.

I think you're lumping together people who want him gone and people who are hesitant about a "multi year deal" for this player. I also am generally nervous about the thread since promising a guy he'll be back can also be a promise that you're going to overpay for the guy, because you've literally given away negotiating leverage once you say that. 

If I ignore the promise in the thread title and just try to fill the position for next year, if it comes down to Jose Abreu on a 2 year deal and Justin Smoak on a 1 year deal next year based entirely on baseball performance...gosh I'm actually not sure which I'd do. 

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I think you're lumping together people who want him gone and people who are hesitant about a "multi year deal" for this player. I also am generally nervous about the thread since promising a guy he'll be back can also be a promise that you're going to overpay for the guy, because you've literally given away negotiating leverage once you say that. 

If I ignore the promise in the thread title and just try to fill the position for next year, if it comes down to Jose Abreu on a 2 year deal and Justin Smoak on a 1 year deal next year based entirely on baseball performance...gosh I'm actually not sure which I'd do. 

This this this. Thank you. I don't mind him returning, but no more than 2 years. 

I'd rather have Abreu than Smoak btw and it's a fairly easy choice. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, greg775 said:

WRONG. How bout I was calling for the EXACT SAME contract Passan wrote about WEEKS ago. You are wrong. I don't fricking troll and you have insulted me. Read my posts. They are usually longer than most with REAL POINTS in there. Give me a call on the phone and I'll talk White Sox baseball with you. Now you resort to insults. You say I troll and add nothing of value. Guess what? You disagree with my position thus you say I'm a troll and want me gone. How bout reading my posts; again I've been reasonable about Jose for WEEKS. NOT A TROLL, my gawd. Read.My.Posts. Please. Thank you.

Personally I feel I have a much better grasp on Jose's value to the Sox than Jeff Passan, because you know I'm a Sox fan and not a national beat writer.

But hey, if you want to parrot his opinion because it happens to support yours, be my guest.  I'll continue to think independently and you'll continue to randomly capitalize words.

Edited August 22, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[BackDoorBreach]

I have been saying 2 year deal, 2nd year club option at most.  It makes no sense to lock him up for the 2nd and 3rd years.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

I think you're lumping together people who want him gone and people who are hesitant about a "multi year deal" for this player. I also am generally nervous about the thread since promising a guy he'll be back can also be a promise that you're going to overpay for the guy, because you've literally given away negotiating leverage once you say that. 

If I ignore the promise in the thread title and just try to fill the position for next year, if it comes down to Jose Abreu on a 2 year deal and Justin Smoak on a 1 year deal next year based entirely on baseball performance...gosh I'm actually not sure which I'd do. 

Smoak? That guys sucks. He’s had one good season and a whole bunch of shitty ones.

[Dick Allen]

13 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's at .4 fWAR.  He's had a bad year.  It wouldn't be "selling high" it would be foolishly bailing on a 22 year old that you've ID'd as a future cornerstone of your offense.

And WTF does trading a guy that was the 3rd overall prospect in baseball in 2018 have to do with Jose fucking Abreu? Why do I waste time responding to idiotic tangents from moronic trolls with room temp IQs?

This is a personal attack. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

This is a personal attack. 

pobrecita.

[greg775]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Personally I feel I have a much better grasp on Jose's value to the Sox then Jeff Passan, because you know I'm a Sox fan and not a national beat writer.

 But hey, if you want to parrot his opinion because it happens to support yours, be my guest.  I'll continue to think independently and you'll continue to randomly capitalize words.

My point was in response to being called a troll. This alleged troll had a pretty good take weeks ago considering a respected national guy shared the same thoughts. I'm out for now. Hibbard and Jose Abreu and Dick Allen and some other posters are the ones I feel have the right takes on this.

Edited August 22, 2019 by greg775

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

pobrecita.

If mods don't know what this means google it on the urban dictionary. If this crap is allowed to stand, this is going to get ugly because I am ready to fire back.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Smoak? That guys sucks. He’s had one good season and a whole bunch of shitty ones.

Defensively he's a tick above Abreu and offensively he's a tick below Abreu for each of the last 2 seasons. In fWAR, he has actually outperformed Abreu over the last 2 combined seasons. So if you're saying "That guy sucks" about a guy who has performed comparably to Jose Abreu and who is a similar age...that's exactly why some people are hesitant about a multi year deal or just saying "you'll absolutely be back!" to Abreu. You can't tell me "Justin Smoak sucks!" when he has performed similarly to Jose Abreu without having to say the exact same thing about Jose Abreu. They are very similar overall players for the last 3 years. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

If mods don't know what this means google it on the urban dictionary. If this crap is allowed to stand, this is going to get ugly because I am ready to fire back.

And to think I took you off ignore this year.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

And to think I took you off ignore this year.

You post like everyone in your life ignores you. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Defensively he's a tick above Abreu and offensively he's a tick below Abreu for each of the last 2 seasons. In fWAR, he has actually outperformed Abreu over the last 2 combined seasons. So if you're saying "That guy sucks" about a guy who has performed comparably to Jose Abreu and who is a similar age...that's exactly why some people are hesitant about a multi year deal or just saying "you'll absolutely be back!" to Abreu. You can't tell me "Justin Smoak sucks!" when he has performed similarly to Jose Abreu without having to say the exact same thing about Jose Abreu. They are very similar overall players for the last 3 years. 

Yea, you can take the .213 BA, 765 OPS hitter trending downwards quickly and I’ll take Abreu. Smoak and his career 745 OPS does indeed suck.

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Vile said at least 3/$36M, which would be a pretty big overpay, especially on the years side of things.  Do you really think teams will be eager to pay Abreu into his age 35 season?

I'm a reasonable bloke, so I can see what you're saying about the years side of things, and acknowledge that point.  In reconsidering then and seeing what a few others have suggested, I think a two-year contract in the $9M-$12M per range, with a team option for a third year, would be reasonable for a DH and for the production he'd likely put up during that time.  

[greg775]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If mods don't know what this means google it on the urban dictionary. If this crap is allowed to stand, this is going to get ugly because I am ready to fire back.

Don't need to fight back, Dick. We respect your takes.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Thad Bosley said:

I'm a reasonable bloke, so I can see what you're saying about the years side of things, and acknowledge that point.  In reconsidering then and seeing what a few others have suggested, I think a two-year contract in the $9M-$12M per range, with a team option for a third year, would be reasonable for a DH and for the production he'd likely put up during that time.  

Agreed

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

What exactly has he done that is so great? He's had some productive years as a 1st basemen. Ya know, Alex Rios had some productive years in our OF. Why not guarantee Rios a coaching job while we are at it?

How is it your posts on anything non-Abreu related are typically rather good, and then you get to Abreu, and you lose all reason.  

[Jack Parkman]

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yea, you can take the .213 BA, 765 OPS hitter trending downwards quickly and I’ll take Abreu. Smoak and his career 745 OPS does indeed suck.

I agree here. Smoak is an offensive black hole. The only thing he does is hit HR and walk. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[mqr]

4 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

I'm a reasonable bloke, so I can see what you're saying about the years side of things, and acknowledge that point.  In reconsidering then and seeing what a few others have suggested, I think a two-year contract in the $9M-$12M per range, with a team option for a third year, would be reasonable for a DH and for the production he'd likely put up during that time.  

2 years is reasonable. But what freaks me out, is that if 2020 is the year that Jose totally crashes, there's no way Jerry moves on in 2021.

[Dick Allen]

I would think he will be something around $10-12 million for a year, probably have a reasonably  attainable option for year two, and one a little more difficult for year 3. That way the Sox get their money's worth, or he's one and done. It would be interesting to see how he performed in a good line up. But who knows if it will be good next year? It should at least be improved. 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

If I'm out of line here, feel free to let me know... but short of calling up Andrew Vaughn 2 or 3 years too soon, who the hell else are the Sox going to pencil in for 500 ABs at 1B/DH? Its not like there are examples of clear improvements available for similar "value". ANd before I see another person drop CJ "Captain HBP" Cron, I don't want to hear it.

Re-sign the damn guy.

But for the love of God, can we please move Yoan to the 3-hole and Abreu to cleanup?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I also think first baseman and DH's get a raw deal relating to WAR - they are penalized far too much and it's an inefficiency with the statistic, no doubt. Similarly to how Colorado bats are punished far too much since they do not receive a bump for their road production when all stats have shown that Colorado players are at a disadvantage, more than other teams, when they're on the road.

I'll use David Ortiz vs Mike Cameron as an example. They have the same career WARs, nearly, and Ortiz had nearly 3000 more PA's than Cameron so Cameron's WAR/162 rate was way better than Ortiz. 

You won't find a human being alive that would have rather had Mike Cameron for his career than David Ortiz. Not one.

[Balta1701]

Just now, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

If I'm out of line here, feel free to let me know... but short of calling up Andrew Vaughn 2 or 3 years too soon, who the hell else are the Sox going to pencil in for 500 ABs at 1B/DH? Its not like there are examples of clear improvements available for similar "value". ANd before I see another person drop CJ "Captain HBP" Cron, I don't want to hear it.

Re-sign the damn guy.

But for the love of God, can we please move Yoan to the 3-hole and Abreu to cleanup?

If Andrew Vaughn needs 2 or 3 years in the minors then we completely f***ed up his scouting. A player with that level of college experience and performance at a fairly easy position should not need "2 or 3 years". If he's in the minors 2 years from now, then either he got hurt or we start using the B-word for him. There shouldn't be that much for him to learn by facing minor leaguers that he needs anywhere near that amount of time.

If he was scouted correctly, then the only reason he should be in the minors a year from right now is if we're playing the service time game for him and holding him down until April of 2021 for the extra year of control, it should not be because of performance. If he's not performing well enough to be up at this time next year...then we should be loudly asking what is wrong. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

47 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

1B is a wasteland throughout baseball. There's not a ton of good players there. You have Freeman, Rizzo, Goldschmidt, Pete Alonso and a whole bunch of crap. 

EDIT: forgot that Josh Bell is good this year.

I agree that there aren't better options than Abreu, but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years. 

Lol Carlos Sanatana, Hoskins, and Max Muncy would like to have a word with you.