Sox fire Matt Lisle/Matt Lisle quits (?)

[Moan4Yoan]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The only thing that separates you and me from the low skilled worker is access to a better education, but I digress. Again, this is going dangerously close to politics. 

That’s not true at all.  There’s also ambition.  Not all people have the same drive to better themselves.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

That’s not true at all.  There’s also ambition.  Not all people have the same drive to better themselves.

Disagree. I think ambition is directly related to the quality of education that one has.  

If anything, being ambitious has been a hindrance to me because I don't know how to regulate it. I don't understand when it's appropriate to ask for more responsibility. I always will offer to do more, etc. Sometimes you can take it too far. I wish people explained to me that they were laying out the groundwork first. 

For example, right  now I'd love to go back to school and change careers, but money is a huge issue. I'm still paying for my previous education and I'm deathly afraid of taking out more debt with no guarantee of future employment. I'd have to be damn sure that it would work for me to do it. It's not a lack of ambition, it's a lack of access. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

Pursuit of happiness...never a guaranteed outcome.

That said, we are reaching a tipping point all around the world in terms of how far unfettered capitalism can improve conditions in second and third world economies and what happens when the Top 0.01% of the world will do anything to hold onto power.

We’re seeing it in the Amazon, Brexit, India, Washington or Beijing...whether it’s technoauthoritarianism, nationalism, neoliberalism, globalization, societies around the world are fraying and threatening to come apart.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Disagree. I think ambition is directly related to the quality of education that one has. 

If anything, being ambitious has been a hindrance to me because I don't know how to regulate it. I don't understand when it's appropriate to ask for more responsibility. I always will offer to do more, etc. Sometimes you can take it too far. I wish people explained to me that they were laying out the groundwork first. 

The majority of millionaires don’t hold college degrees...

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The majority of millionaires don’t hold college degrees...

The majority of millionaires also came from upper middle class and above backgrounds. They had a financial buffer and a backup plan if their business failed. If they failed, they probably would have one. They just didn't need to. They got a ton of education in person from mom and dad. 

I'm done. Logging off.  Bye. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[DirtySox]

Holy moly has this thread gone off track.

Re: Lisle. The shaping of an almost non existent narrative just so certain people can get their daily White Sox bashing in is ridiculous. I would pay attention to what Harold said though. He's a credible poster. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by DirtySox

[thxfrthmmrs]

36 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Disagree. I think ambition is directly related to the quality of education that one has.

I hope this isn’t a serious statement. If it is, I feel sorry that you have such a limited view in life.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Even Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland are starting to see significant cracks in their economic models in the last 2-3 years.

We have our idealized version from the media and political candidates, but the truth is somewhere in between utopias vs. North Korea/Venezuela.   

I laugh at how we in America are all or nothing. Like the radical candidates on the one side want the US to implement socialism. They think the government running everything will work? Ugh.

How bout simply working on healthcare and the student loan problem and the minimum wage problem and call it good. Can you imagine if got rid of capitalism? It's so silly to even think about it. Let's work on what's wrong but stop talking about socialism being a good thing for the USA for gosh sakes. Silly.

[BackDoorBreach]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

If you're in fear of losing your job for your speech that is a sophisticated form of thought control. Being unemployed long-term is almost the equivalent of being incarcerated. You can't do anything without money. At least in jail you have a roof over your head and 3 meals per day. 

You are highly confused on the 1st amendment my friend.  If you, I, or anyone told our bosses to go fuck themselves you have a good shot at getting fired.

The first amendment protects people from criminal charges for thought and speech crimes.  It's that simple.  Freedom of speech does not protect you from consequences, aside from being jailed.

[BackDoorBreach]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Agree to work more than 40 hrs per week without being compensated for your extra time? 

My wife is a food scientist and in a salary position.  She makes 100k and sometimes have 50 or 60 hour weeks depending on her production runs. She also is allowed to take off extra days here and there based off her scheduled hours that don't count against her benefit time.

I am an hourly Cop that makes over 100k because of overtime and forced overtime.  I am frequently denied time off requests because of man power shortages

If you think this stuff does not balance out at the end, idk what to tell you.

 

[BackDoorBreach]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Philosophy difference. Anyone who works 40 hrs per week should be able to live a modest, independent lifestyle. Maybe I'm not being unreasonable, maybe the employer is? 

Jack, you are describing Communism without the economy decline and quality of life being shit.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

I hope this isn’t a serious statement. If it is, I feel sorry that you have such a limited view in life.

I believe that there is no such thing as lack of ambition. Everybody is ambitious. I don't believe anyone just doesn't care to better themselves. There is no such thing as a lazy person. They don't exist. There is lack of access. I believe that if the proper supports were in place, that 80% of people could do pretty much any job that exists. And I believe anyone who wants to work should be able to find a job. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

19 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Jack, you are describing Communism without the economy decline and quality of life being shit.

Or maybe is it that our quality of life is unsustainable? 

[BackDoorBreach]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I believe that there is no such thing as lack of ambition. Everybody is ambitious. I don't believe anyone just doesn't care to better themselves. There is no such thing as a lazy person. They don't exist. There is lack of access. I believe that if the proper supports were in place, that 80% of people could do pretty much any job that exists. And I believe anyone who wants to work should be able to find a job. 

You truly do not have any clue about a realistic society if you don't think lazy people exist lmao..

[BackDoorBreach]

Just now, Jack Parkman said:

Or maybe is it that our quality of life is unsustainable? 

No, it's not.  Literally Communism is unsustainable, which you are prescribing too.  There has never been a lower unemployment rate in this country. 

[Moan4Yoan]

15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I believe that there is no such thing as lack of ambition. Everybody is ambitious. I don't believe anyone just doesn't care to better themselves. There is no such thing as a lazy person. They don't exist. There is lack of access. I believe that if the proper supports were in place, that 80% of people could do pretty much any job that exists. And I believe anyone who wants to work should be able to find a job. 

So you don’t think there are any teenagers, young adults, and adults who are just lazy and don’t want to work?  Your beliefs are fantasy, as is the world you are describing.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Holy moly has this thread gone off track.

Re: Lisle. The shaping of an almost non existent narrative just so certain people can get their daily White Sox bashing in is ridiculous. I would pay attention to what Harold said though. He's a credible poster. 

I may have missed it, but what did Harold suggest?

[Jack Parkman]

18 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

So you don’t think there are any teenagers, young adults, and adults who are just lazy and don’t want to work?  Your beliefs are fantasy, as is the world you are describing.

Nope. I believe that those people have had their will crushed by lack of opportunity. I believe that that would improve themselves if they had the opportunity to do so. Society chooses that fate for them. Those people are assigned the negative consequences of the instability of the current system. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

26 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

You truly do not have any clue about a realistic society if you don't think lazy people exist lmao..

It’s absolutely mind-boggling that he thinks there is no such thing as a lazy person.  Not even worth debating someone this out of touch with reality.

[Jack Parkman]

37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s absolutely mind-boggling that he thinks there is no such thing as a lazy person.  Not even worth debating someone this out of touch with reality.

I think you're out of touch with reality. You people have all bought the con. Just because it is accepted by most people, doesn't mean that it is true. Ambition and work ethic are a learned behavior, not a personality trait. Quite frankly, it's not worth discussing anymore because we're not going to change each other's minds. Whatever lets you sleep at night. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[ron883]

51 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think you're out of touch with reality. You people have all bought the con. Just because it is accepted by most people, doesn't mean that it is true. Ambition and work ethic are a learned behavior, not a personality trait. Quite frankly, it's not worth discussing anymore because we're not going to change each other's minds. Whatever lets you sleep at night. 

I had a good upbringing, good education, and was gifted with above average intelligence. What I could never conquer was work ethic and ambition. I see others with far superior work ethic and ambition. I've always wanted to improve those things. Always told myself I would. Bottom line, I'm just not that ambitious and lack good work ethic. I could be doing more, be making more if I had better work ethic. I just don't. It's something I've come to terms with. I still do well, but I could be doing much better. Work ethic and ambition are real things dawg. Not everybody has it. Everybody knows a bum who has been given every opportunity  and advantage and managed to squander it time after time. 

 

Hell, look at some players on the White Sox. If they had better work ethic, maybe they would field their positions better!

Edited August 31, 2019 by ron883

[Quin]

No more discussion on political philosophies past this point.

[Dominikk85]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

In the end, $7, $10, $12, not even $15 an hour jobs provide one the ability to pay for an independent, livable lifestyle, let alone allow one to take care of a family.

The biggest problem culprit is outsourcing (which comes down to slave labor in third world countries), as the $30-50 manufacturing and labor jobs of the past that used to allow the mother to stay at home and take care of the kids in the 70’s and early 80’s simply don’t exist anymore.

With automation, robotics, AI, AR and VR...almost every single job like that will have been replaced or displaced within just two generations of American workers.

Btw won't capitalism die once all jobs are automated or outsourced? It is a great idea for like a phone company to build phones 100% automatically but who is going to buy the phones if 90% of the people have no job and income to consume?

[Dominikk85]

2 hours ago, ron883 said:

I had a good upbringing, good education, and was gifted with above average intelligence. What I could never conquer was work ethic and ambition. I see others with far superior work ethic and ambition. I've always wanted to improve those things. Always told myself I would. Bottom line, I'm just not that ambitious and lack good work ethic. I could be doing more, be making more if I had better work ethic. I just don't. It's something I've come to terms with. I still do well, but I could be doing much better. Work ethic and ambition are real things dawg. Not everybody has it. Everybody knows a bum who has been given every opportunity  and advantage and managed to squander it time after time. 

 

Hell, look at some players on the White Sox. If they had better work ethic, maybe they would field their positions better!

I actually do agree work ethic is somewhat of a trait that you are born with. Sure you can kick yourself in the butt to be a bit less lazy but there are just people who are super driven to improve and willing to sacrifice everything for this.

In sports that applies too, we hear "he is so talented if he would only work harder" but this insane work ethic is actually part of that.

Btw those insanely motivated people aren't always the most mentally healthy. Guys like michael Jordan or jimmy Connors were quite insane in what they did for winning from neglecting their families to doing questionable stuff on court but they did what it took.

The more healthy approach is more balanced where you work somewhat hard (being lazy isnt good either) but also leave enough time otherwise but those people do not get to the very top, they just have a solid job like being a teacher and have a balance between job and everything else, which has a good floor but also a limited ceiling.

 

Btw to bring that back to lisle I read that lisle put everything into his coaching career and that he even was like homeless for some time because he took unpaid or mini paid jobs to get into the business. Maybe that is why he self promotes a lot and has a quite big ego which helped him being good at his job but also rubs people the wrong way.

Btw I do think something must have happened, if it was just performance related or just didn't work well for both parties he likely would have been let go in October like most coaches.

[35thstreetswarm]

6 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

You are highly confused on the 1st amendment my friend.  If you, I, or anyone told our bosses to go fuck themselves you have a good shot at getting fired.

The first amendment protects people from criminal charges for thought and speech crimes.  It's that simple.  Freedom of speech does not protect you from consequences, aside from being jailed.

As are you.  While people do often fail to grasp the difference between state and private action and overread the amendment as a generalized license to speak without consequence, the First Amendment protects from much more than “criminal charges for thought and speech crimes”  and “being jailed.”