Who are these people...

[poppysox]

Every statistic known to man seems to be available in todays baseball.  We get spray charts, framing and exit velocity and every statistic you could think to ask about.  Who is it that records all this stuff.  Do the Sox have 40 people or 4 to track all this?  Who does this job and how does the info get compiled.  We get mountains of data but never an explanation of where and who is doing this data collection.

[Dominikk85]

They get most mlb data from mlb or stat orgs working for mlb (pitch fx, statcast, stat inc). Minor league parks probably have their own trackman systems. They are analysing those data o course using their own databases by they don't collect the raw data themselves anymore.

[chitownsportsfan]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Every statistic known to man seems to be available in todays baseball.  We get spray charts, framing and exit velocity and every statistic you could think to ask about.  Who is it that records all this stuff.  Do the Sox have 40 people or 4 to track all this?  Who does this job and how does the info get compiled.  We get mountains of data but never an explanation of where and who is doing this data collection.

No offense but it's been common knowledge for any halfway tuned in fan for at least a few years.  @[email protected] explained it well.  Most of it is MLB provided technology available to the clubs.

Also, to add on to his post the real innovation isn't in the collecting of data at this point it's in analyzing it and applying it to performance -- MVP Machine stuff.

[Dominikk85]

In the early days of sabermetrics teams did collect their own stats. They had guys charting pitches and batted ball locations. Now that is mostly automatized though.

[Dick Allen]

13 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

In the early days of sabermetrics teams did collect their own stats. They had guys charting pitches and batted ball locations. Now that is mostly automatized though.

I actually know someone who used to do that for the White Sox in the early 90s for IIRC $50 a game.

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No offense but it's been common knowledge for any halfway tuned in fan for at least a few years.  @[email protected] explained it well.  Most of it is MLB provided technology available to the clubs.

Also, to add on to his post the real innovation isn't in the collecting of data at this point it's in analyzing it and applying it to performance -- MVP Machine stuff.

Did you ever notice that people who start a sentence "no offense"  intend to be offensive.  I have never heard the broadcasters explain where the data comes from and how it is collected and how many people does it take to do that.  Saying it comes from MLB doesn't say much.

[greg775]

2 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Did you ever notice that people who start a sentence "no offense"  intend to be offensive. 

It's good to say "no offense" to tone down an internet post. You don't want to insult and maybe get suspended when you didn't mean anything personal.

[poppysox]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

It's good to say "no offense" to tone down an internet post. You don't want to insult and maybe get suspended when you didn't mean anything personal.

When someone humbles themselves by asking a question in this forum...any question...they would like an answer.  They don't need to hear that it's a stupid question or that any good fan knows the answer.  It's an effort to be superior or in my opinion bully.  The poster used the term "any halfway tuned in fan for at least a few years" and that sounds a lot like he thinks very well of himself.  Gregg, since you take a fair amount of heat from some of these site bullies...I would think you would recognize their tactics.  Many good posters no longer post because 3 or 4 know it all posters take these aggressive postures.  

[chitownsportsfan]

35 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Did you ever notice that people who start a sentence "no offense"  intend to be offensive.  I have never heard the broadcasters explain where the data comes from and how it is collected and how many people does it take to do that.  Saying it comes from MLB doesn't say much.

you ever notice how many that post here (no offense) have no idea what they are following on the field and industry?  Yea.  Kudos for asking questions and not being proudly ignorant and obstinate but it's almost impossible for me to believe that someone that posts here as regularly as yourself would not have have picked some of this stuff up by osmosis.  Almost once a week a broadcast will mention the new tracking technology.   FFS when Statcast data was fully implemented in what, 2017 it was mentioned almost every single inning.  They beat us over the head with it.  

Edited September 1, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[Richie]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No offense but it's been common knowledge for any halfway tuned in fan for at least a few years.  @[email protected] explained it well.  Most of it is MLB provided technology available to the clubs.

Also, to add on to his post the real innovation isn't in the collecting of data at this point it's in analyzing it and applying it to performance -- MVP Machine stuff.

"No offense, but I'm about to say some REAL arrogant, snot-nosed bull shit to you... right now. Despite the fact that you are humbly asking a question, my response is about to demean the shit out of you as a baseball fan. My superiority will be demonstrated. Remember... no offense, though! "

Edited September 1, 2019 by Richie

[Richie]

36 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you ever notice how many that post here (no offense) have no idea what they are following on the field and industry?  Yea.  Kudos for asking questions and not being proudly ignorant and obstinate but it's almost impossible for me to believe that someone that posts here as regularly as yourself would not have have picked some of this stuff up by osmosis.  Almost once a week a broadcast will mention the new tracking technology.   FFS when Statcast data was fully implemented in what, 2017 it was mentioned almost every single inning.  They beat us over the head with it.  

Who gives a shit? lol. I don't remember what was talked about during broadcasts much in 2017 either. What if... GOD FORBID... the OP is trying to learn? Startling thought! Isn't it? 

Get over yourself... Eww. Talk about douche chills. 

This has been a disgusting display. Imagine for a moment if somebody asked this question to you in person and you responded in this manner. It would totally expose the absurdity of what you are doing. The only way it would be semi-excusable, is if you were autistic. Maybe you are... nothing wrong with that, by the way.

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Richie

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

you ever notice how many that post here (no offense) have no idea what they are following on the field and industry?  Yea.  Kudos for asking questions and not being proudly ignorant and obstinate but it's almost impossible for me to believe that someone that posts here as regularly as yourself would not have have picked some of this stuff up by osmosis.  Almost once a week a broadcast will mention the new tracking technology.   FFS when Statcast data was fully implemented in what, 2017 it was mentioned almost every single inning.  They beat us over the head with it.  

Coming from the guy who gave us such hot takes as Yolmer is a really good player, Alonso is solid, Abreu cannot hit for a decent average anymore then he hits .356 the next month,  and moving Moncada to 3B is stupid, it is ironic that you of all posters,would claim others have no idea what they are following. You definitely love yourself though, I will give you that.

[pcq]

Matt Lisle reminds of kindness on The Lord's day. 

[bubba phillips]

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

[ron883]

13 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

GMs are a bunch of nerds. Who cares what they think? Give me ball players over nerds. I'd love to pound on some nerds right now tbh. 

[pcq]

38 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

EV correlates with hits if not HR.

[Dominikk85]

59 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

A HR is a HR but when projecting a player for a new contract or trade you might want to know how sustainable that is.

 

Sure it is valuable to know a player hit 26 homers but if 12 of them barely cleared the wall and it was mostly to a short porch that doesn't exist in your stadium some regression might be coming and it is good to know that and don't pay that player as a 26 HR guy when he might be only an 18 hr guy in your park.

[kitekrazy]

7 hours ago, bubba phillips said:

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

I'd love to see what the exit velocity was when Jim Rice lined one in the first row of the CF bleachers at old Comiskey.   Then CF marking was 475 ft.  It was ruled a double.  Only later the camera revealed it would have been a homer but that's how hard he hit it.

[kitekrazy]

7 hours ago, bubba phillips said:

One of my favorites of the new stats is exit velocity. 

A home run is a home run whether it's a bullet that splinters a seat in the 1st row at Yankee Stadium, 308 feet away or a lazy fly fall that drifts into the bleachers 400 feet away.

BTW, when GM's are looking to trade for an outfielder, how many of them say "Hey, we gotta get this guy. He was 3rd in the league in exit velo in the 9 HR's that he hit."?

I think agents create these stats.

[poppysox]

10 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

I'd love to see what the exit velocity was when Jim Rice lined one in the first row of the CF bleachers at old Comiskey.   Then CF marking was 475 ft.  It was ruled a double.  Only later the camera revealed it would have been a homer but that's how hard he hit it.

When Dick Allen hit some of those rifle shot homers the exit velocity must have been unworldly.  You knew the second it was hit that it was "kilt."  That's what is hard for me to understand...what new stat is it that surpasses traditional stats info in defining talent.  Traditional triple crown #'s reflect power (HR's) and balls hit fair (BA) and balls hit well with runners on base (rbi's).  Does the current WS team have someone better than I realize because traditional stats don't capture his true value?  I do understand that a spray chart helps determine how to pitch to and defend a hitter, etc.  Moneyball depicted finding these diamond in the rough players but I don't see real life examples of these dramatic discoveries.

[kitekrazy]

5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

When Dick Allen hit some of those rifle shot homers the exit velocity must have been unworldly.  You knew the second it was hit that it was "kilt."  That's what is hard for me to understand...what new stat is it that surpasses traditional stats info in defining talent.  Traditional triple crown #'s reflect power (HR's) and balls hit fair (BA) and balls hit well with runners on base (rbi's).  Does the current WS team have someone better than I realize because traditional stats don't capture his true value?  I do understand that a spray chart helps determine how to pitch to and defend a hitter, etc.  Moneyball depicted finding these diamond in the rough players but I don't see real life examples of these dramatic discoveries.

 I think these things are created by agents to justify getting a below average player decent money.  I don't think you can copy and paste stats when switching leagues.  A NL pitcher throws to 8 legit hitters while an AL pitcher throws to 9 and the guy batting in his spot is often one of the best hitters on the team as long as they are not managed by Renteria.   I do think there is some caution when our eyes look at paper and not look what goes on in the field.

[wegner]

11 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

I'd love to see what the exit velocity was when Jim Rice lined one in the first row of the CF bleachers at old Comiskey.   Then CF marking was 475 ft.  It was ruled a double.  Only later the camera revealed it would have been a homer but that's how hard he hit it.

Jim Rice definitely hit the ball the hardest of any person I ever saw play on the South Side (unfortunately for the wrong Sox).  Every time I was at the ball park he seemed to hit a bb out of there in a hurry.  The only player that I've seen in person close to him would have been Albert Belle.  But that is all my eye test...I have no idea what the exit velocity would have been for either of them. 

[kitekrazy]

Who could forget Kittle and Luzinski's roof shots?   No cheap homes in that park.

[greg775]

On 9/1/2019 at 1:28 PM, poppysox said:

When someone humbles themselves by asking a question in this forum...any question...they would like an answer.  They don't need to hear that it's a stupid question or that any good fan knows the answer.  It's an effort to be superior or in my opinion bully.  The poster used the term "any halfway tuned in fan for at least a few years" and that sounds a lot like he thinks very well of himself.  Gregg, since you take a fair amount of heat from some of these site bullies...I would think you would recognize their tactics.  Many good posters no longer post because 3 or 4 know it all posters take these aggressive postures.  

I don't really care when I get ripped or mocked. I just like discussing baseball. I know that in real life if I talked to my haters we'd be fine. They would see my responses are considered at least and my knowledge of Sox past and present would be strong enough they'd finally know I'm no troll. My dad actually was every-day business partner of one of the owners in the Jerry group (dead now) and we had season tickets in the fifth row forever and access to a suite in new Comiskey forever.

Analytics people laugh at me. Big deal. I don't discount analytics. I do think it's unfair when people think I don't read or consider other's posts. If you look, most of my posts are long ones. I try to keep them short now cause people seem to get mad at me repeating myself. But when I see something obvious like a very good player like Jose getting torched on here, I often can't stop myself from commenting.

p.s. In regard to exit velocity. I agree Dick Allen had to have amazing exit velocity, but on that home run he hit into the right centerfield nook at Comiskey, I think that was just a towering shot that took forever to get there. And didn't he play dead ball era and lower pitching mound era? I wonder how Dick Allen did in WAR. I'd argue he was a great hitter. Wonder how he pans out.

Edited September 2, 2019 by greg775

[poppysox]

37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I don't really care when I get ripped or mocked. I just like discussing baseball. I know that in real life if I talked to my haters we'd be fine. They would see my responses are considered at least and my knowledge of Sox past and present would be strong enough they'd finally know I'm no troll. My dad actually was every-day business partner of one of the owners in the Jerry group (dead now) and we had season tickets in the fifth row forever and access to a suite in new Comiskey forever.

Analytics people laugh at me. Big deal. I don't discount analytics. I do think it's unfair when people think I don't read or consider other's posts. If you look, most of my posts are long ones. I try to keep them short now cause people seem to get mad at me repeating myself. But when I see something obvious like a very good player like Jose getting torched on here, I often can't stop myself from commenting.

p.s. In regard to exit velocity. I agree Dick Allen had to have amazing exit velocity, but on that home run he hit into the right centerfield nook at Comiskey, I think that was just a towering shot that took forever to get there. And didn't he play dead ball era and lower pitching mound era? I wonder how Dick Allen did in WAR. I'd argue he was a great hitter. Wonder how he pans out.

If Dick Allen didn't pan out (your term) in WAR...that would be all the proof I would need to forget WAR as a meaningful stat.