SCCWS Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Someone posted yesterday that Abreu w 100+ RBI's still trails Yolmer in WAR. I was thinking today what a good year Tim has had at the plate. He continues to keep his average above .320 . I looked up his WAR after 100 games this season and he is at 2.7. His rookie year he played 99 games and his WAR for that season was 2.7. Now across the board, his offensive numbers except triples are higher than in 2016 including a significant increase in BA and a huge drop in SO. But regardless, his DWAR drop this year offsets his OWAR increase. He has made 10 more errors this year but has an increase in range factor. WAR fans may get under the covers and find some rationale but it seems to me that errors have a greater impact on WAR than any offensive stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Someone posted yesterday that Abreu w 100+ RBI's still trails Yolmer in WAR. I was thinking today what a good year Tim has had at the plate. He continues to keep his average above .320 . I looked up his WAR after 100 games this season and he is at 2.7. His rookie year he played 99 games and his WAR for that season was 2.7. Now across the board, his offensive numbers except triples are higher than in 2016 including a significant increase in BA and a huge drop in SO. But regardless, his DWAR drop this year offsets his OWAR increase. He has made 10 more errors this year but has an increase in range factor. WAR fans may get under the covers and find some rationale but it seems to me that errors have a greater impact on WAR than any offensive stat. dWAR isn't calculated using errors, but a whole host of other factors. https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_position.shtml dWAR will tell you Jeter isn't a Gold Glover, whereas errors alone and some flashy plays makes him a god to those who can only do surface research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Fielding bible has Timmy at the bottom of the league for SS. http://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Hes a terrible defender and ranks at the bottom of most advanced defensive metrics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Quin said: dWAR isn't calculated using errors, but a whole host of other factors. https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_position.shtml dWAR will tell you Jeter isn't a Gold Glover, whereas errors alone and some flashy plays makes him a god to those who can only do surface research. Your eyes will tell you Jeter isn't a Gold Glover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Perhaps they could switch him out with Magical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Quin said: dWAR isn't calculated using errors, but a whole host of other factors. https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/war_explained_position.shtml dWAR will tell you Jeter isn't a Gold Glover, whereas errors alone and some flashy plays makes him a god to those who can only do surface research. But I wasn't referring to his overall ability to play SS as his regression based on WAR. I was trying to understand how TA as a rookie was vastly superior in dawar to his play this season. I see where he has 10 more errors but he has improved his range factor this year. What other defensive stats other than errors has he dropped in from rookie year to present. Using WAR, it would indicate TA has not improved in his 4 years. His offense has jumped way up but has completely been offset by his decline in defense. As a casual fan, I don't agree but there must be metrics I am missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Anderson still has a long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 minute ago, harkness99 said: Anderson still has a long way to go. He does have a long way to go, and with work, he can get there. That's why I wasn't impressed with his bat-throwing theatrics. Forget the showboating and work on becoming the all-around star he can be. I know being a great athlete doesn't make one a great major league baseball player, but Tim should be a better defensive player. If not gold glove material, at least better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkness99 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, NWINFan said: He does have a long way to go, and with work, he can get there. That's why I wasn't impressed with his bat-throwing theatrics. Forget the showboating and work on becoming the all-around star he can be. I know being a great athlete doesn't make one a great major league baseball player, but Tim should be a better defensive player. If not gold glove material, at least better. He has the physical tools.. but the Cabeza needs to get a lot calmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Ozzie was saying the other day he needs more instruction. His bis feet and body are almost always out of proper position. He said that is one reason for his many sidearm throws when it wouldn't appear necessary. He does think he will get that down and be good someday, something he didn't feel a year ago. Supposedly Ozzies sons think he is the second coming of Shawon Dunston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moan4Yoan Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Move him to catcher and maybe his defense will improve. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 12 hours ago, SCCWS said: Someone posted yesterday that Abreu w 100+ RBI's still trails Yolmer in WAR. I was thinking today what a good year Tim has had at the plate. He continues to keep his average above .320 . I looked up his WAR after 100 games this season and he is at 2.7. His rookie year he played 99 games and his WAR for that season was 2.7. Now across the board, his offensive numbers except triples are higher than in 2016 including a significant increase in BA and a huge drop in SO. But regardless, his DWAR drop this year offsets his OWAR increase. He has made 10 more errors this year but has an increase in range factor. WAR fans may get under the covers and find some rationale but it seems to me that errors have a greater impact on WAR than any offensive stat. It would appear that WAR is flawed just like most baseball statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 44 minutes ago, poppysox said: It would appear that WAR is flawed just like most baseball statistics. Defensive metrics are really bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 hours ago, poppysox said: It would appear that WAR is flawed just like most baseball statistics. Timmy is young enough he's "forgiven" for having meh war by the analytics folks. His defensive metrics are so bad you'd think there would be daily outrage on here considering the importance WAR gets. It would be interesting to monitor all his errors. How many of them actually cost the team in terms of winning or losing a particular game? How many were "meaningless" in terms of him losing focus in runaway wins or runaway losses? Seems to me from the memory test he hasn't had a lot of huge errors. Just boots a lot when he loses focus. -- As far as Ozzie's observation. Seems like Ozzie could be put to use as a roaving instructor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilehoopster Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Let me give my plus and minus on TA. First of all, you have to see him live to see the balls he gets to and to understand how much range he has, and also how good his arm is. Really something special. On the negative, no one has brought up his terrible base running, just completely bone-headed at times. Was it yesterday or the day before he got thrown out trying to steal 3rd which completely killed a possible rally. Also, he gets picked of 2nd base way, way too often; one time seem too often to me. I remember his getting picked off 2nd base three times or so last year, and it happened again a couple or few weeks ago. How does that happen? It seems a high school JV player wouldn't have that happen, how can it happen with Tim? Tim has many, many more positives than negatives, but the base running thing is frustrating because it's such an easy fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 35 minutes ago, vilehoopster said: Let me give my plus and minus on TA. First of all, you have to see him live to see the balls he gets to and to understand how much range he has, and also how good his arm is. Really something special. On the negative, no one has brought up his terrible base running, just completely bone-headed at times. Was it yesterday or the day before he got thrown out trying to steal 3rd which completely killed a possible rally. Also, he gets picked of 2nd base way, way too often; one time seem too often to me. I remember his getting picked off 2nd base three times or so last year, and it happened again a couple or few weeks ago. How does that happen? It seems a high school JV player wouldn't have that happen, how can it happen with Tim? Tim has many, many more positives than negatives, but the base running thing is frustrating because it's such an easy fix. Should be interesting to see how these guys play when we have a good team. My guess is they'll do well when the games mean something. During the tank years there's been a reward for losing in the draft pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Shortstop is not his future if he is regressing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, pcq said: Shortstop is not his future if he is regressing. Right field...he sure has the arm for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, poppysox said: Right field...he sure has the arm for it. Doesn't have the bat for it. Moving Tim to the OF is a bad idea unless we have a shoo-in at shortstop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, ron883 said: Doesn't have the bat for it. Moving Tim to the OF is a bad idea unless we have a shoo-in at shortstop. Yeah...just thought it a better idea than catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Maybe we need an actual defensive instructor.. look at what ron washington did for semien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Ill add, on soxmachine Jim was talking about how how infield coach (forget his name) was having Anderson practice the jump throw and other theatrical plays. Kinda absurd considering his footing is awful.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 1 hour ago, reiks12 said: Ill add, on soxmachine Jim was talking about how how infield coach (forget his name) was having Anderson practice the jump throw and other theatrical plays. Kinda absurd considering his footing is awful.. Semien's always been a sure handed statue. The Sox prefer a rangier SS that's going to make more errors, but get to balls that most players don't. The Sox traded Semien because they wanted to go with Johnson at 2nd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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