2020 RF options

[ChiSox59]

1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I would rather the White Sox not gamble with our limited tradeable prospects with a guy that has averaged under 80 games a year in 4 years.  There are probably other guys to be had that are not "upside" type guys.  Also comparing his OPS to Machado's is a goofy take.

It wasn't really a "take"...it was just an comparison.  Nimmo didn't debut until late June 2016 and spent no time on the DL that season.  He's missed parts of 2 seasons with injuries, not three.  

Look, I am not proposing to trade any the top 5 prospects or major pieces of the MLB club.  But I would definitely trade a package of players outside of the top 5 for him.  Something like Rutherford, Pilkington and Hansen, or something comparable.  Maybe that gets you there, maybe it doesn't...but definitely worth exploring.    

[BackDoorBreach]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

It wasn't really a "take"...it was just an comparison.  Nimmo didn't debut until late June 2016 and spent no time on the DL that season.  He's missed parts of 2 seasons with injuries, not three.  

Look, I am not proposing to trade any the top 5 prospects or major pieces of the MLB club.  But I would definitely trade a package of players outside of the top 5 for him.  Something like Rutherford, Pilkington and Hansen, or something comparable.  Maybe that gets you there, maybe it doesn't...but definitely worth exploring.    

Something like that would be fine, even though I'm sure the Mets could get a better package.  I'm just not trading ReyLo as someone suggested to get him.  

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

It wasn't really a "take"...it was just an comparison.  Nimmo didn't debut until late June 2016 and spent no time on the DL that season.  He's missed parts of 2 seasons with injuries, not three.  

Look, I am not proposing to trade any the top 5 prospects or major pieces of the MLB club.  But I would definitely trade a package of players outside of the top 5 for him.  Something like Rutherford, Pilkington and Hansen, or something comparable.  Maybe that gets you there, maybe it doesn't...but definitely worth exploring.    

The "multiple guys for one guy" deal setup is one that I'm really not thrilled about us doing yet. I'm much more willing to do that for moves that put us over the top at the end. Nimmo is a potential fit, but man when we have this much money to spend, we're giving up 3 different guys from our system? Eh.

I'd rather take on a bad contract.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The "multiple guys for one guy" deal setup is one that I'm really not thrilled about us doing yet. I'm much more willing to do that for moves that put us over the top at the end. Nimmo is a potential fit, but man when we have this much money to spend, we're giving up 3 different guys from our system? Eh.

I'd rather take on a bad contract.

Especially not for a guy with a neck injury. But the Mets have gotten a new GM recently so maybe he won't be as in love with Nimmo as a GM who drafts players.

[ChiSox59]

Just now, BackDoorBreach said:

Something like that would be fine, even though I'm sure the Mets could get a better package.  I'm just not trading ReyLo as someone suggested to get him.  

Yah, I am not trading Reylo for him either.  

Just now, Balta1701 said:

The "multiple guys for one guy" deal setup is one that I'm really not thrilled about us doing yet. I'm much more willing to do that for moves that put us over the top at the end. Nimmo is a potential fit, but man when we have this much money to spend, we're giving up 3 different guys from our system? Eh.

I'd rather take on a bad contract.

Meh.  I am not losing much sleep over any of the three I mentioned.  Rutherford may still have enough prospect notability to have some name recognition, but that may very well be gone soon.  Hansen is an trainwreck and has been for some time now.  Both Rutherford and Hansen need to be added to the 40 man in December and while we have a lot of fat to trim, we have a lot to add, I suspect the Sox will be adding at least 5 MLB players to the 40 man this offseason.  I don't think trading from some excess, especially guys that need protection is all that bad of an idea, but I get what you're saying.

We have money to spend but there isn't really a fit on the FA market that makes a ton sense for RF (whether its defense, handedness, commitment, etc.) and that is the one position where I think a trade makes sense.  I am definitely not making a similar trade for a SP or a DH/1B when there are several available on the FA market for just money.  Also don't think using our financial flexibility to take on a bad contract is a very good use of resources.  

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

Especially not for a guy with a neck injury. But the Mets have gotten a new GM recently so maybe he won't be as in love with Nimmo as a GM who drafts players.

If the Mets are willing to give the guy away for a low price...then there's gonna be other bidders to drive up the price right? This isn't the White Sox trading away a closer and only talking to Toronto's GM. 

There's just so many ways to make this team better without giving up the guys in our system...I can't say I despise this concept, but meh.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yah, I am not trading Reylo for him either.  

Meh.  I am not losing much sleep over any of the three I mentioned.  Rutherford may still have enough prospect notability to have some name recognition, but that may very well be gone soon.  Hansen is an trainwreck and has been for some time now.  Both Rutherford and Hansen need to be added to the 40 man in December and while we have a lot of fat to trim, we have a lot to add, I suspect the Sox will be adding at least 5 MLB players to the 40 man this offseason.  I don't think trading from some excess, especially guys that need protection is all that bad of an idea, but I get what you're saying.

We have money to spend but there isn't really a fit on the FA market that makes a ton sense for RF (whether its defense, handedness, commitment, etc.) and that is the one position where I think a trade makes sense.  I am definitely not making a similar trade for a SP or a DH/1B when there are several available on the FA market for just money.  Also don't think using our financial flexibility to take on a bad contract is a very good use of resources.  

I enjoy how we posted 2 comments almost simultaneously and our reaction in both cases to the proposed details are somewhere around "meh". Mine is "Meh" to making the move, yours is "Meh" to giving up guys who are lower on the list.

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I enjoy how we posted 2 comments almost simultaneously and our reaction in both cases to the proposed details are somewhere around "meh". Mine is "Meh" to making the move, yours is "Meh" to giving up guys who are lower on the list.

I guess the bigger question I would have for you is what is your alternative options?  You said you don't want to go into next year with inhouse options in RF.  I agree with that.  We really need a LH RF and that can play at least average defense.  That really only leaves us with Kole Calhoun in RF assuming the Angels buy him out, which they likely will.  He gets a giant MEH from me.  He is fine with me if we add multiple more notable FAs, but he's still far from exciting and provides virtually no upside, albeit an upgrade over the trash we've thrown out there this season.  Dickerson is interesting as a bat, but he's not a RF, and he's not good in LF either.  There are just so few options that trading some tertiary prospects for a guy that can plug a corner OF spot for a few seasons that also solves a few of the other team weaknesses makes sense to me.  Whether that guy is Brandon Nimmo, or Nomar Mazara, or Ramiel Tapia, or David Dahl, or Gregory Polonco depends on what those teams are asking in return.  

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I guess the bigger question I would have for you is what is your alternative options?  You said you don't want to go into next year with inhouse options in RF.  I agree with that.  We really need a LH RF and that can play at least average defense.  That really only leaves us with Kole Calhoun in RF assuming the Angels buy him out, which they likely will.  He gets a giant MEH from me.  He is fine with me if we add multiple more notable FAs, but he's still far from exciting and provides virtually no upside, albeit an upgrade over the trash we've thrown out there this season.  Dickerson is interesting as a bat, but he's not a RF, and he's not good in LF either.  There are just so few options that trading some tertiary prospects for a guy that can plug a corner OF spot for a few seasons that also solves a few of the other team weaknesses makes sense to me.  Whether that guy is Brandon Nimmo, or Nomar Mazara, or Ramiel Tapia, or David Dahl, or Gregory Polonco depends on what those teams are asking in return.  

I think the fact that every option is "Meh" to some extent is why there isn't a clear answer. We don't have a clear internal candidate, the veteran candidates are ok but nothing special, and all of the trade options are "hope a team is letting someone go cheaper than they should" guys.

My personal preference right now is to use the resource we have in abundance - free agent money - and fill the hole on a temporary basis. That's entirely because we have such a low payroll right now. But if moving a couple guys does clear out a 40 man roster glut, well I get why we'd do it, I just am utterly scarred by this team's history of "3 or 4 for 1" players. If we un-did every single one of those moves, where we gave up 3 guys to get 1, that we did over the last decade, we'd make ourselves substantially better. If there's chaff on the 40 man that can be cleared while we hold onto the young guys, generally I think the franchise is better off holding onto them. But, if 2 of those guys are potentially going to be exposed to the rule 5 draft, may as well turn them into something that has a chance of being good, but also a chance at being rotten. 

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I guess the bigger question I would have for you is what is your alternative options?  You said you don't want to go into next year with inhouse options in RF.  I agree with that.  We really need a LH RF and that can play at least average defense.  That really only leaves us with Kole Calhoun in RF assuming the Angels buy him out, which they likely will.  He gets a giant MEH from me.  He is fine with me if we add multiple more notable FAs, but he's still far from exciting and provides virtually no upside, albeit an upgrade over the trash we've thrown out there this season.  Dickerson is interesting as a bat, but he's not a RF, and he's not good in LF either.  There are just so few options that trading some tertiary prospects for a guy that can plug a corner OF spot for a few seasons that also solves a few of the other team weaknesses makes sense to me.  Whether that guy is Brandon Nimmo, or Nomar Mazara, or Ramiel Tapia, or David Dahl, or Gregory Polonco depends on what those teams are asking in return.  

It seems it's Calhoun or one of Lillian's Japanese players.

[Jose Abreu]

If you're trading one of our non-elite prospects for Nimmo, the package probably has to start with Stiever 

[BackDoorBreach]

Wrong thread.

Edited September 12, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[Eminor3rd]

I’ve brought it up in other threads, I know, but it seems relevant here. A couple outside-the-box options could be available from NPB this offseason:

Seibu Lions CF Shogo Akiyama (31) will be an unrestricted free agent. Left-handed, Five time golden Glover, current holder of the single season NPB hits record (broke Ichiro’s). A taller, leaner version of Nori Aoki with more power and better defensive instincts. Everyone agrees he’s lost a step from his prime, so he probably isn’t a plus in CF anymore, but would likely still be a plus in RF. I dont think he’ll cost much because if he can’t hit elite velocity, he’s a just fourth OF already in his 30s. But if he can, he’s a 2-3 win player on the cheap  

Yokohama BayStars LF Yoshitomo Tsutsugoh (28) is rumored to possibly be posted this year. Also left-handed, big time power with good plate discipline. Not a good defender because he’s slow, but has a pretty good arm. FWIW, he’s currently playing third base because Toshiro Miyazaki broke his hamate and is out for the year. I haven’t seen it yet, but from what I’ve heard, it isn’t particularly pretty but it’s passable enough to keep doing, which says something for his athleticism at least.  But he’s a bat-first player for sure. He would, I think, cost more because it would be through the posting system, but probably still not a ton — certainly way less than someone like Castellanos. Much more of an MLB-style slugger than Akiyama, but again, you never know how these hitters translate until you see them turn around 98mph. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Eminor3rd

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

I'd be thrilled in late 2020, though it would mean suffering through a full season of teeth-gnashing about the failure to land a RF in 2019 and the chorus of "this front office has never signed Mookie Betts before, what makes us think they'll sign Mookie Betts now?" 

You must be psychic to see into the future like that.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Eminor3rd said:

I’ve brought it up in other threads, I know, but it seems relevant here. A couple outside-the-box options could be available from NPB this offseason:

Seibu Lions CF Shogo Akiyama (31) will be an unrestricted free agent. Left-handed, Five time golden Glover, current holder of the single season NPB hits record (broke Ichiro’s). A taller, leaner version of Nori Aoki with more power and better defensive instincts. Everyone agrees he’s lost a step from his prime, so he probably isn’t a plus in CF anymore, but would likely still be a plus in RF. I dont think he’ll cost much because if he can’t hit elite velocity, he’s a just fourth OF already in his 30s. But if he can, he’s a 2-3 win player on the cheap  

Yokohama BayStars LF Yoshitomo Tsutsugoh (28) is rumored to possibly be posted this year. Also left-handed, big time power with good plate discipline. Not a good defender because he’s slow, but has a pretty good arm. FWIW, he’s currently playing third base because Toshiro Miyazaki broke his hamate and is out for the year. I haven’t seen it yet, but from what I’ve heard, it isn’t particularly pretty but it’s passable enough to keep doing, which says something for his athleticism at least.  But he’s a bat-first player for sure. He would, I think, cost more because it would be through the posting system, but probably still not a ton — certainly way less than someone like Castellanos. Much more of an MLB-style slugger than Akiyama, but again, you never know how these hitters translate until you see them turn around 98mph. 

Is there a pitcher that everyone is scouting too? 

 

edit: to be clear, I believe I have seen tweets of mlb teams scouting a pitcher but I could not find a google source for it. So this isn't a sarcastic "we need pitching" question.

[thxfrthmmrs]

2 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

I’ve brought it up in other threads, I know, but it seems relevant here. A couple outside-the-box options could be available from NPB this offseason:

Seibu Lions CF Shogo Akiyama (31) will be an unrestricted free agent. Left-handed, Five time golden Glover, current holder of the single season NPB hits record (broke Ichiro’s). A taller, leaner version of Nori Aoki with more power and better defensive instincts. Everyone agrees he’s lost a step from his prime, so he probably isn’t a plus in CF anymore, but would likely still be a plus in RF. I dont think he’ll cost much because if he can’t hit elite velocity, he’s a just fourth OF already in his 30s. But if he can, he’s a 2-3 win player on the cheap  

Yokohama BayStars LF Yoshitomo Tsutsugoh (28) is rumored to possibly be posted this year. Also left-handed, big time power with good plate discipline. Not a good defender because he’s slow, but has a pretty good arm. FWIW, he’s currently playing third base because Toshiro Miyazaki broke his hamate and is out for the year. I haven’t seen it yet, but from what I’ve heard, it isn’t particularly pretty but it’s passable enough to keep doing, which says something for his athleticism at least.  But he’s a bat-first player for sure. He would, I think, cost more because it would be through the posting system, but probably still not a ton — certainly way less than someone like Castellanos. Much more of an MLB-style slugger than Akiyama, but again, you never know how these hitters translate until you see them turn around 98mph. 

Sign both for RF and DH. All. the. Japanese. Hahn.

[poppysox]

3 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

I’ve brought it up in other threads, I know, but it seems relevant here. A couple outside-the-box options could be available from NPB this offseason:

Seibu Lions CF Shogo Akiyama (31) will be an unrestricted free agent. Left-handed, Five time golden Glover, current holder of the single season NPB hits record (broke Ichiro’s). A taller, leaner version of Nori Aoki with more power and better defensive instincts. Everyone agrees he’s lost a step from his prime, so he probably isn’t a plus in CF anymore, but would likely still be a plus in RF. I dont think he’ll cost much because if he can’t hit elite velocity, he’s a just fourth OF already in his 30s. But if he can, he’s a 2-3 win player on the cheap  

Yokohama BayStars LF Yoshitomo Tsutsugoh (28) is rumored to possibly be posted this year. Also left-handed, big time power with good plate discipline. Not a good defender because he’s slow, but has a pretty good arm. FWIW, he’s currently playing third base because Toshiro Miyazaki broke his hamate and is out for the year. I haven’t seen it yet, but from what I’ve heard, it isn’t particularly pretty but it’s passable enough to keep doing, which says something for his athleticism at least.  But he’s a bat-first player for sure. He would, I think, cost more because it would be through the posting system, but probably still not a ton — certainly way less than someone like Castellanos. Much more of an MLB-style slugger than Akiyama, but again, you never know how these hitters translate until you see them turn around 98mph. 

These guys really sound worth exploring.  Nice find.

[BackDoorBreach]

They are going to end up with 32 year old Kole Calhoun aren't they. Yawn

[poppysox]

13 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

They are going to end up with 32 year old Kole Calhoun aren't they. Yawn

Fine with me if Cole is where the extra money saved gets spent.

[poppysox]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

It seems it's Calhoun or one of Lillian's Japanese players.

Calhoun looks like Babe Ruth compared to who we have been playing in RF.  He's fine if the starting pitchers and DH acquired are top notch.

[tray]

We need a catcher to back up McCann.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, tray said:

We need a catcher to back up McCann.

IMO this should be Zach Collins. People aren't thrilled about his defense but so far I think he's an upgrade from Castillo already.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

If you're trading one of our non-elite prospects for Nimmo, the package probably has to start with Stiever 

Agreed.  I think you’re looking at Stiever plus Walker combo TBH.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Calhoun looks like Babe Ruth compared to who we have been playing in RF.  He's fine if the starting pitchers and DH acquired are top notch.

Exactly. Say our current guys are producing a -2.5 WAR in RF (don't know the exact number just going off of the -5 WAR between RF and DH stat). He's at a 1.7 WAR for the season which isn't stellar, but you're talking an upgrade of 4.2 WAR.

[Eminor3rd]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Is there a pitcher that everyone is scouting too? 

 

edit: to be clear, I believe I have seen tweets of mlb teams scouting a pitcher but I could not find a google source for it. So this isn't a sarcastic "we need pitching" question.

There are a couple big amateurs from Koshien this year that MLB is trying to poach. The most famous is Sasaki. Big tall kid with a big fastball. 

The best pitching prospect in NPB right now — IMO by far — is SoftBank Hawks ace Kodai Senga. Can sit 97-98 all game, touches 100, slider flashes double plus but is consistently average to plus, will steal a strike with a curveball, but his famous wipeout is his splitter, which plays way up because of his velo. Slider and fastball both show above average spin rates. His command has come and gone the past few seasons but it’s been there for long stretches this year, and he finally looks ready to go to me. Also he just threw a no hitter the other day. I think he’s 26.

I like him a lot more as a prospect than most NPB started for a couple reasons: (1) he was actually not scouted as an amateur out of HS and came a little late to pro ball, and was used as a reliever at first, so he has WAY fewer miles on his arm than the typical Japanese starter, and (2) the stuff is so good that the downside is a high leverage reliever, and likely a very good one. 

The problem is that the Hawks almost literally never post their players, because they want to win. They’re one of the ten largest corporations in the world, so they don’t care about money. They want championships.