James McCann - catcher of the future ?

[TheFutureIsNear]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:38 PM, Colinski said:

Is the general consensus his at bats at similar to the first half ? 

I watch a lot of games and think he might be pressing a bit but still has decent at bats.

Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth do you think the small sample size of a hot 1st half outweighs the other 1000+ AB’s of his career? He’s not pressing, he’s just not a good hitter. 

 

McCann is still under contract next year, no need to do anything with his contract. C is a position we should be looking to upgrade, but if the opportunity doesn’t come up there’s worse things than having McCann as a starter. 

[pcq]

1 hour ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Even though the publicly available metrics praise Grandal‘s defense, the Dodgers internal evaluation system thought he was awful FWIW.

At least we all agree on the best standards  for evaluation. I have a radar gun that says I can throw over 100.

[chitownsportsfan]

Wouldn't be the worst starting catcher but wouldn't be the best either.  If an opportunity is there upgrade but there are bigger fish to fry on the roster.  He's probably like a 2 WAR true talent.

[greg775]

3 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

Who cares where he was drafted and how big he is? He can't hit a fastball. Defensively he's not very good. He has been pathetic in his big league career. 

He's part of the tank/rebuild and is ready. I want him to start at catcher next year. McCann can help him and play 1-2 times a week. I know I said Hahn will never be fired cause of Eloy/Moncada, but he should at least be reprimanded if this No. 10 pick can't start next season and produce. No. 10 pick.

Edited September 17, 2019 by greg775

[soxfan49]

16 minutes ago, greg775 said:

He's part of the tank/rebuild and is ready. I want him to start at catcher next year. McCann can help him and play 1-2 times a week. I know I said Hahn will never be fired cause of Eloy/Moncada, but he should at least be reprimanded if this No. 10 pick can't start next season and produce. No. 10 pick.

This is a joke, right? I've been a Collins backer but if this team is ready to compete, they can't put Collins back there 4-5 nights a week. His defense is brutal and the hitch in his swing isn't going away. I wouldn't be upset if he played 3 nights a week- say one at C, one at 1B, 1-2 at DH- but full time C in a year they want to compete? I'm not ready to go there.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

This is a joke, right? I've been a Collins backer but if this team is ready to compete, they can't put Collins back there 4-5 nights a week. His defense is brutal and the hitch in his swing isn't going away. I wouldn't be upset if he played 3 nights a week- say one at C, one at 1B, 1-2 at DH- but full time C in a year they want to compete? I'm not ready to go there.

I'll stop after this, but I want to ask you and then I'll stop: 1.) Are you in favor of the tank/rebuild? 2.) Assuming you say yes, this guy is a No. 10 draft pick and he's about to enter his age 24 season. He's no young pup. 3.) Do you want the high draft picks we signed to play for the team and lead the team to the WS a couple times? This guy passed our scouts' scrutiny, they drafted him, he's supposed to be the catcher of the future. Well, let this tank/rebuild play itself out. Play him next year A LOT. That's why I want to play Rutherford as well. We were told to support the tank; well, I wanna see the tank acquisitions play and succeed. This kid has been considered can't miss all his life. Now he's not can't miss?

I'll listen for your answer then stop giving my takes. Let's just say I want to be put in the category: Collins starter/McCann super sub next year.

[Balta1701]

38 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'll stop after this, but I want to ask you and then I'll stop: 1.) Are you in favor of the tank/rebuild? 2.) Assuming you say yes, this guy is a No. 10 draft pick and he's about to enter his age 24 season. He's no young pup. 3.) Do you want the high draft picks we signed to play for the team and lead the team to the WS a couple times? This guy passed our scouts' scrutiny, they drafted him, he's supposed to be the catcher of the future. Well, let this tank/rebuild play itself out. Play him next year A LOT. That's why I want to play Rutherford as well. We were told to support the tank; well, I wanna see the tank acquisitions play and succeed. This kid has been considered can't miss all his life. Now he's not can't miss?

I'll listen for your answer then stop giving my takes. Let's just say I want to be put in the category: Collins starter/McCann super sub next year.

Rutherford is notably young for his level and was only at AA this year. He should at least get substantial time at AAA.

Collins may not be a young pup, but catchers do seem to take longer to develop because they're not just learning to hit, they're learning how to be the field generals managing the whole staff, every pitch, and all the defenders. That does take some time. 

Given everything he has to learn, I'm ok with him not catching 5 days a week, but I also don't like the idea of him playing 1b a couple days a week...unless you're bringing in a starting catcher elsewhere. If you're either saying that Collins's bat is so good that we need him playing more often, or you're saying that Collins is never going to be a catcher and he's another failure by our scouts, then go ahead and play him at 1b. If you think he can be a catcher long term and you're willing to work at that, then you act like it. If Collins is playing 2-3 days a week and McCann 3-4, I'm ok with that. If McCann is playing 6 days a week and Collins 1 day a week...well I'm ok with that if Mccann is earning it. 

IMO, he still looked better defensively than Castillo.

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, SouthWallace said:

Honest question, who is the better receiver/defender/framer/game caller, McCann or Grandal?

I am all aboard the Grandal/McCann/Collins 3 headed C/DH/1B train, I just haven't seen enough of Grandal to know.

For me the 3 headed C/DH1Base is the smart way to go.

[greg775]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Rutherford is notably young for his level and was only at AA this year. He should at least get substantial time at AAA.

Collins may not be a young pup, but catchers do seem to take longer to develop because they're not just learning to hit, they're learning how to be the field generals managing the whole staff, every pitch, and all the defenders. That does take some time. 

Given everything he has to learn, I'm ok with him not catching 5 days a week, but I also don't like the idea of him playing 1b a couple days a week...unless you're bringing in a starting catcher elsewhere. If you're either saying that Collins's bat is so good that we need him playing more often, or you're saying that Collins is never going to be a catcher and he's another failure by our scouts, then go ahead and play him at 1b. If you think he can be a catcher long term and you're willing to work at that, then you act like it. If Collins is playing 2-3 days a week and McCann 3-4, I'm ok with that. If McCann is playing 6 days a week and Collins 1 day a week...well I'm ok with that if Mccann is earning it. 

IMO, he still looked better defensively than Castillo.

Good post IMO.

[Moan4Yoan]

Signing Grandal makes all the sense in the world.  A switch hitter who is stronger from the left side.  He protects the Sox against McCann falling back to his putrid Detroit numbers and also allows the Sox to DH Collins if they truly don’t think he can handle the backup catcher role.  Add a lefty RF and maybe a righty bench bat to platoon with Collins at DH (or give Yermin a shot) and you have the makings of a solid lineup.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[soxfan49]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

I'll stop after this, but I want to ask you and then I'll stop: 1.) Are you in favor of the tank/rebuild? 2.) Assuming you say yes, this guy is a No. 10 draft pick and he's about to enter his age 24 season. He's no young pup. 3.) Do you want the high draft picks we signed to play for the team and lead the team to the WS a couple times? This guy passed our scouts' scrutiny, they drafted him, he's supposed to be the catcher of the future. Well, let this tank/rebuild play itself out. Play him next year A LOT. That's why I want to play Rutherford as well. We were told to support the tank; well, I wanna see the tank acquisitions play and succeed. This kid has been considered can't miss all his life. Now he's not can't miss?

I'll listen for your answer then stop giving my takes. Let's just say I want to be put in the category: Collins starter/McCann super sub next year.

1. Yes I am/was

2. So...? If he isn't good you don't force him into action because of his draft selection and age.

3. Of course but if they stink, I don't. Collins has been awful, granted a small sample size. If their goal is to win I'm not sure how him playing 5 nights a week over an All Star makes sense. If Collins was "can't miss" he would've went higher than 10. Every guy picked in really the first 2 rounds of every MLB draft were great players their whole lives. That doesn't mean they deserve MLB playing time. Look, I had high hopes for Collins too but he's been bad and this would've been the year for him to play a lot, but the FO and staff's decision to not make it a priority is telling.

BTW, Rutherford has shown next to no power and that stuff doesn't fly for a corner OF'er. Furthermore Rutherford was obtained for what turned out to be nothing. It's not like he was a main piece for Sale or something. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by soxfan49

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

1. Yes I am/was

2. So...? If he isn't good you don't force him into action because of his draft selection and age.

3. Of course but if they stink, I don't. Collins has been awful, granted a small sample size. If their goal is to win I'm not sure how him playing 5 nights a week over an All Star makes sense. If Collins was "can't miss" he would've went higher than 10. Rutherford has shown next to no power and that stuff doesn't fly for a corner OF'er. Furthermore Rutherford was obtained for what turned out to be nothing. It's not like he was a main piece for Sale or something. 

Stop taking the bait...Greg is straight trolling.  No one has ever considered Collins can’t miss, not even his biggest fans.  He’s just looking for a reaction and he’s succeeding.

[Sleepy Harold]

Here's some interesting stats from Mike Petriello on McCann's season.

I'd still very much love for the Sox to try and sign Grandal this off-season and push James into a more suitable back up role (and Collins around to learn from the both of them), which would really solidify the C position for the Sox. 

[Moan4Yoan]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Stop taking the bait...Greg is straight trolling.  No one has ever considered Collins can’t miss, not even his biggest fans.  He’s just looking for a reaction and he’s succeeding.

He also threw Rutherford into his post as a guy who should be playing a lot in the majors and soon when he’s not even close to ready, if he ever even will be.

Has anyone else on this board noticed this with Greg?  He seems to be the ultimate mischievous troll who plays dumb but truly knows what he is doing.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Moan4Yoan

[greg775]

3 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

1. Yes I am/was

2. So...? If he isn't good you don't force him into action because of his draft selection and age.

3. Of course but if they stink, I don't. Collins has been awful, granted a small sample size. If their goal is to win I'm not sure how him playing 5 nights a week over an All Star makes sense. If Collins was "can't miss" he would've went higher than 10. Every guy picked in really the first 2 rounds of every MLB draft were great players their whole lives. That doesn't mean they deserve MLB playing time. Look, I had high hopes for Collins too but he's been bad and this would've been the year for him to play a lot, but the FO and staff's decision to not make it a priority is telling.

BTW, Rutherford has shown next to no power and that stuff doesn't fly for a corner OF'er. Furthermore Rutherford was obtained for what turned out to be nothing. It's not like he was a main piece for Sale or something. 

Nice post. This proves people can have calm discussion on here.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, Moan4Yoan said:

He also threw Rutherford into his post as a guy who should be playing a lot in the majors and soon when he’s not even close to ready, if he ever even will be.

Has anyone else on this board noticed this with Greg?  He seems to be the ultimate mischievous troll who plays dumb but truly knows what he is doing.

I'm a big White Sox fan. I love the White Sox. I like to talk about the White Sox and read others' opinions about the White Sox. I got excited when we acquired Rutherford so sorry.

p.s. I have a lot of problems with our team right now and baseball in general and have to sort through those to decide if I want to continue to care about the White Sox and baseball in general.

Edited September 18, 2019 by greg775

[ron883]

7 minutes ago, greg775 said:

I'm a big White Sox fan. I love the White Sox. I like to talk about the White Sox and read others' opinions about the White Sox. I got excited when we acquired Rutherford so sorry.

p.s. I have a lot of problems with our team right now and baseball in general and have to sort through those to decide if I want to continue to care about the White Sox and baseball in general.

Would the White Sox using an opener regularly be the last straw?

[greg775]

11 hours ago, ron883 said:

Would the White Sox using an opener regularly be the last straw?

Frankly I don't know. It'll hit me one day if I don't care at all anymore. I know from the last several seasons I've been programmed to not care anymore if we beat the Royals or Cubs and I do not follow the standings anymore even in April and May as I've been conditioned to feel we are not going to contend. I do watch a lot of games on MLB and keep up with the daily box scores and know what's going on with every Sox player and could hold my own in a conversation about the White Sox and also what's coming up through the minors. I'm wondering how many of the regular Sox fans have totally lost track of everyday goings-on with the team or if they are keeping track waiting for better days which we have been told and in some cases seen are coming.

The opener thing will really be annoying with baseball going with inane strategy stuff as early as the first inning.  That will annoy me and maybe break me.

I just read this: 

The average Major League Baseball fan is 53 years old; only 29 percent of MLB fans are between the ages of 18 and 34. It says 42 percent of Americans consider themselves MLB fans. 30 percent are women; average TV viewer is 53; 29 percent of fans are 18-34 years old; average household incomine is 96,000 bucks.

[ChiSox59]

On 9/15/2019 at 2:07 PM, Jack Parkman said:

McCann is an excellent backup. Nothing more. 

McCann would be for an excellent backup.  I agree with that, and hope that is what he is for the Sox next year.

But he's produced 2.2 fWAR this season.  Good for 10th among all catchers in baseball.  Unless you think there are only 9 starter quality catchers in baseball, this is another very poor hot take from Jack Parkman.  

[Dick Allen]

No need to extend him. Let's see what he's got next season, then talk contract. His framing still sucks but everything else is pretty, pretty good. 

[Jack Parkman]

21 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

McCann would be for an excellent backup.  I agree with that, and hope that is what he is for the Sox next year.

But he's produced 2.2 fWAR this season.  Good for 10th among all catchers in baseball.  Unless you think there are only 9 starter quality catchers in baseball, this is another very poor hot take from Jack Parkman.  

I don't think that, I think McCann had a career year. This level of performance should not be expected to be duplicated. In 2019, he was a starting quality catcher. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[poppysox]

On 9/17/2019 at 10:15 PM, Sleepy Harold said:

Here's some interesting stats from Mike Petriello on McCann's season.

I'd still very much love for the Sox to try and sign Grandal this off-season and push James into a more suitable back up role (and Collins around to learn from the both of them), which would really solidify the C position for the Sox. 

Share catching Grandal 40%...McCann 40%...Collins 20%   DH with whoever is not catching or the backup that night.  Makes it easy to afford Grandal and upgrades two positions substantially.

[tray]

McCann's offense has tapered off but it should not be surprising that a catcher wears down during a long season. Also, consider that McCann has not always had protection behind him in the line-up.  Nevertheless, he has been a clutch hitter through most of the season and his defensive skills have been pretty consistent.

Meanwhile, Collins has not demonstrated the defensive skills that the White Sox would require from a starting or back-up catcher.  He has completed some games without making an error but that doesn't prove much.  He looks slow to me...not a big catcher with  the cat-like reactions that Carlton Risk had.

Let him catch the rest of the games to see what he has.

[Colinski]

On 9/17/2019 at 8:03 PM, TheFutureIsNear said:

Not trying to be a dick, but how on earth do you think the small sample size of a hot 1st half outweighs the other 1000+ AB’s of his career? He’s not pressing, he’s just not a good hitter. 

 

McCann is still under contract next year, no need to do anything with his contract. C is a position we should be looking to upgrade, but if the opportunity doesn’t come up there’s worse things than having McCann as a starter. 

I created the thread to hear opposing views so defo don’t think you are being a dick.

 

i think he’s changed his batting approach significantly enough to say he isn’t the same hitter as the one who took those Detroit at bats. 

If your expectation is the the goes back to being a .240/300 player I hope you will be wrong. My view is he’s a 260/320 next year, good for a number 8 in the line up and 2 war Catcher. 

[Moan4Yoan]

24 minutes ago, Colinski said:

I created the thread to hear opposing views so defo don’t think you are being a dick.

 

i think he’s changed his batting approach significantly enough to say he isn’t the same hitter as the one who took those Detroit at bats. 

If your expectation is the the goes back to being a .240/300 player I hope you will be wrong. My view is he’s a 260/320 next year, good for a number 8 in the line up and 2 war Catcher. 

Great post.  I guess the big risk is if he declines back to normal and you are stuck with McCann and Collins as your catchers.  I personally don’t think taking the chance on one more good year or more of McCann is worth it and I would be all over Grandal.  With the DH spot, you will still be able to play all three guys if they all hit well.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Moan4Yoan