Yolmer contemplates not being on the Sox

[Moan4Yoan]

27 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yolmer Sanchez: 255/324/326 - 1.2 fWAR

Manny Machado: 251/330/453 - 2.5 fWAR

This season, Yolmer is Manny minus the homers.

“Minus the homers?”  Lol, yeah those are kind of important.  This is where only looking at stats fries your brain.  You seem like you would be very happy going forward with the Sox never signing any top free agent and will always try to justify them being cheap.  Yolmer is trash and the Sox need to sign some stars.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I love Yolmer, I really do, and I think he would serve as a great backup infielder, as I hope Leury is our super utility guy next year, but you look at Yolmer's bat compared to his defense, this year he is a slightly better hitter than Engel. He is basically the Adam Engel of the infield. And I have the same feelings about Engel...I hope he is the backup outfielder/late inning defensive replacement/go to pinch runner next year. But Yolmer, in order to serve a role on this team, needs to humble himself and accept the bench role and the paycut that comes with it.

Basically it comes to this...do you like the Chicago White Sox more, or playing every day more? If its the latter, Im not sure he will find a job outside of the teams that are rebuilding...

So you want Leury, Yolmer and Engel back ?  That is not a good bench. There's no power or OBP . Sure Engel and Sanchez are good gloves but along with the other more obvious needs the Sox need more depth in order to field a good team. Basically it comes to this do you want to win or keep guys you like personally ?

[poppysox]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So you want Leury, Yolmer and Engel back ?  That is not a good bench. There's no power or OBP . Sure Engel and Sanchez are good gloves but along with the other more obvious needs the Sox need more depth in order to field a good team. Basically it comes to this do you want to win or keep guys you like personally ?

Good gloves and speed come in handy on the bench.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

27 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Good gloves and speed come in handy on the bench.

So do more complete players . Billy Hamilton has a great glove and great speed but who wants him without power and ability to reach base

A bench is just not a bench. A bench needs to be able to fill in for long periods in case of injury  with slightly less production then is expected from the injured player . You cannot lose a starter and then only have a fill in who only is speed and glove.

Edited September 21, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ron883]

28 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Good gloves and speed come in handy on the bench.

They are fucking garbage at the plate. What about that do you like?

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So do more complete players . Billy Hamilton has a great glove and great speed but who wants him without power and ability to reach base

A bench is just not a bench. A bench needs to be able to fill in for long periods in case of injury  with slightly less production then is expected from the injured player . You cannot lose a starter and then only have a fill in who only is speed and glove.

In the case of long term injury I use my minor leagues.  My bench is for winning todays game.  Engel, Garcia or Sanchez are all capable stand-ins for a few innings or a few games.  I have also indicated in other posts that Grandal would make an excellent partner with McCann and Collins for added bench strength for whoever isn't catching or playing 1st base.  I think it is silly to think that these guys have played full time roles with us suddenly can't contribute in utility roles.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

56 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

“Minus the homers?”  Lol, yeah those are kind of important.  This is where only looking at stats fries your brain.  You seem like you would be very happy going forward with the Sox never signing any top free agent and will always try to justify them being cheap.  Yolmer is trash and the Sox need to sign some stars.

Yolmer is trash but has been a better value (by far) this year than Machado ($4M per fWAR vs $12M per fWAR). What does that make Machado then? Because it’s definitely not a “star”.

[poppysox]

15 minutes ago, ron883 said:

They are fucking garbage at the plate. What about that do you like?

Who are the bench players you would suggest?

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So do more complete players . Billy Hamilton has a great glove and great speed but who wants him without power and ability to reach base

A bench is just not a bench. A bench needs to be able to fill in for long periods in case of injury  with slightly less production then is expected from the injured player . You cannot lose a starter and then only have a fill in who only is speed and glove.

100% agree.  We need to aim higher with our bench.  Yolmer is going to get 550 plate appearances and likely finish with two HRs.  In the juiced ball era, that is simply unacceptable.  And for those that like Statcast, Yolmer has some of the worse quality of contact I have ever seen.  If it weren’t for his league average BB rate, he’d probably be the worst hitter in all of baseball.

Also, people are really putting too much emphasis on his defense.  How often are we taking Moncada, Anderson, or Madrigal out late in a game for him next year?  If the answer is never, then his value is entirely tied to filling in on days off or as injuries pop up (as he certainly shouldn’t be used as a punch hitter).  And when that happens, his bat is just as important as every other skill he brings to the table.

[Ducksnort]

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So you want Leury, Yolmer and Engel back ?  That is not a good bench. There's no power or OBP . Sure Engel and Sanchez are good gloves but along with the other more obvious needs the Sox need more depth in order to field a good team. Basically it comes to this do you want to win or keep guys you like personally ?

I see what you're saying. I think if you were going to make an argument of who of those 3 do you keep, Leury is the one. He hits well enough for a super-utility man, has decent speed, and his defense isn't bad considering he plays everywhere on the field (and also...he plays literally everywhere except catch and pitcher). But Engel and Yolmer still have good value at limited roles with their strengths on speed and defense, even on good teams.

 

5 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So do more complete players . Billy Hamilton has a great glove and great speed but who wants him without power and ability to reach base

A bench is just not a bench. A bench needs to be able to fill in for long periods in case of injury  with slightly less production then is expected from the injured player . You cannot lose a starter and then only have a fill in who only is speed and glove.

I feel like more complete players are going to be looking for starting roles, not utility roles. I'm not saying Yolmer and Engel are the answers to the bench next season, but I don't think they are the worst options either considering where this team will probably be in 2020, but I also don't think that is a reason not to try to acquire "more complete" talent, if it's out there. I also think if Engel and Yolmer and Leury are on starting roles in any fashion next season, the front office deserves all the negativity they would get from the fans.

 

5 hours ago, ron883 said:

They are fucking garbage at the plate. What about that do you like?

I'm not sure someone who constantly ridicules Jose Abreu's offensive ability should be critiquing other players' offensive ability...you've lost all credibility in that arena.

 

5 hours ago, poppysox said:

Who are the bench players you would suggest?

Yeah, I'm really curious to hear what other players people would like on our bench, and also arguments for what a "complete" bench looks like.

Edited September 21, 2019 by ScooterMcGee

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I see what you're saying. I think if you were going to make an argument of who of those 3 do you keep, Leury is the one. He hits well enough for a super-utility man, has decent speed, and his defense isn't bad considering he plays everywhere on the field (and also...he plays literally everywhere except catch and pitcher). But Engel and Yolmer still have good value at limited roles with their strengths on speed and defense, even on good teams.

 

I feel like more complete players are going to be looking for starting roles, not utility roles. I'm not saying Yolmer and Engel are the answers to the bench next season, but I don't think they are the worst options either considering where this team will probably be in 2020, but I also don't think that is a reason not to try to acquire "more complete" talent, if it's out there. I also think if Engel and Yolmer and Leury are on starting roles in any fashion next season, the front office deserves all the negativity they would get from the fans.

 

I'm not sure someone who constantly ridicules Jose Abreu's offensive ability should be critiquing other players' offensive ability...you've lost all credibility in that arena.

 

Yeah, I'm really curious to hear what other players people would like on our bench, and also arguments for what a "complete" bench looks like.

I don't think somebody with Nick Swardson as his avatar should be critiquing anything

[Ducksnort]

5 minutes ago, ron883 said:

I don't think somebody with Nick Swardson as his avatar should be critiquing anything

? ?Fair enough

[greg775]

5 hours ago, ron883 said:

They are fucking garbage at the plate. What about that do you like?

Don't cuss, sir. That's unfair to them. They have tried their best as members of the Sox. They've been OK.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, ScooterMcGee said:

I see what you're saying. I think if you were going to make an argument of who of those 3 do you keep, Leury is the one. He hits well enough for a super-utility man, has decent speed, and his defense isn't bad considering he plays everywhere on the field (and also...he plays literally everywhere except catch and pitcher). But Engel and Yolmer still have good value at limited roles with their strengths on speed and defense, even on good teams.

 

I feel like more complete players are going to be looking for starting roles, not utility roles. I'm not saying Yolmer and Engel are the answers to the bench next season, but I don't think they are the worst options either considering where this team will probably be in 2020, but I also don't think that is a reason not to try to acquire "more complete" talent, if it's out there. I also think if Engel and Yolmer and Leury are on starting roles in any fashion next season, the front office deserves all the negativity they would get from the fans.

 

I'm not sure someone who constantly ridicules Jose Abreu's offensive ability should be critiquing other players' offensive ability...you've lost all credibility in that arena.

 

Yeah, I'm really curious to hear what other players people would like on our bench, and also arguments for what a "complete" bench looks like.

No there are plenty of guys who are good players who are essentially bench players. Marwin Gonzales last year was one. Brock Holt is a free agent this year and he's a very valuable bench /depth piece. I have mentioned him and Scooter Gennett plenty of times before. Gennett would be a helluva bench piece but it all depends on if he can make or has made a full recovery from a severe groin strain. Just look at his stats from 2017 and 2018. He's going to have to accept the best offer and I doubt it 'll be very high because he looked so bad this year. They both play multiple infield and OF positions.Then there's Moustakas who may be perfect for DH and as a bench piece at 1st 3rd and 2nd. If for some odd reason Jose ends up on another team then he is your starting 1st baseman, but it's possible the Brewers keep him since there's an option for 2020.

I'm sure if I looked harder at other teams I could find more like Zobrist and Howie Kendrick , both free agents.

Edited September 22, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Soxfest]

Yolmer time on South side rapidly coming too a end mercifully 

[raBBit]

12 hours ago, Soxfest said:

Yolmer time on South side rapidly coming too a end mercifully 

Sox can't cut bait. He'll be the starting 2B until Madrigal comes up. I hope they cut bait though.

[ChiSox59]

I'd be surprised if Yolmer is non-tendered, but I would also be surprised if they go to arb with him.  I hope they go in another direction, but I doubt that they do.  They will offer him something like 2 years/$8M, and he'll likely take it.  It's whatever. While we could certainly do better, we could also do worse.  At least he is a plus defender.  I just hope the Sox call up Madrigal by the end of April and end the Yolmer as the everyday 2B era.  

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd be surprised if Yolmer is non-tendered, but I would also be surprised if they go to arb with him.  I hope they go in another direction, but I doubt that they do.  They will offer him something like 2 years/$8M, and he'll likely take it.  It's whatever. While we could certainly do better, we could also do worse.  At least he is a plus defender.  I just hope the Sox call up Madrigal by the end of April and end the Yolmer as the everyday 2B era.  

I believe your wish will be granted by genie RH.?

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

On 9/21/2019 at 10:37 AM, Moan4Yoan said:

“Minus the homers?”  Lol, yeah those are kind of important.  This is where only looking at stats fries your brain.  You seem like you would be very happy going forward with the Sox never signing any top free agent and will always try to justify them being cheap.  Yolmer is trash and the Sox need to sign some stars.

Manny is also playing half of his games in a park that suppresses home runs. I haven't looked at a spray chart, but I am willing to guess that he has 10-15 400 foot outs in Petco.