State of Chicago baseball: the tipping point

[35thstreetswarm]

It's been a tough few years to raise young Sox fans on the North Side.  I live walking distance to Wrigley, across the street from one of the more beloved Cubs players, weathered 2016, and have still managed to keep my four kids from straying to the Northsiders during their formative years. 

It has not come without considerable effort on my part.  I recognize it's tough for kids in the schoolyard to fend off "we're in the playoffs, you're in fourth place" with "oh yeah, well...we've got some really good prospects in Winston/Salem, Birmingham, and Charlotte."  I've assured my kids that the Sox are on an upward trend, the Cubs (at least since 2017 or so) trending downward, and that there would come a time when those trend lines cross.  When one could proclaim with a straight face -- say to an alien moving to Chicago and choosing a new team -- "you're better off picking the Sox right now." 

I think that moment came on Sunday, September 22, 2019.  I now feel comfortable saying that (generational loyalties aside) I'd rather be a Sox fan right now than a Cubs fan, at least for the next several years.  Am I too early?  Too late? 

 

 

*Apologies in advance to the "too cool to care about the Cubs" crowd.

[Southwest Sider]

Probably too early. I'm still holding out hope for an all Chicago World Series in the next few years, and I think their core is still solid enough to do so. Pitching has got to be better for the north siders, though. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Too early. We’ve all seen “can’t miss” prospects fail to get too cocky too early in this rebuild. I really think it’s going to come down to pitching....if Cease and Kopech aren’t what we hoped they were it could be rough sledding trying to assemble a starting pitching staff that is capable of carrying a team deep into the playoffs. 

 

With that said, I’m not optimistic about the cubs present or future either so could go either way. Although, I’d prefer to start comparing ourselves to teams like the Yankees or Astros real soon and not worry about the cubs at all

 

[35thstreetswarm]

By the way, I'm not necessarily saying that we'll have a better record next season, or that we won't have our struggles in 2020, especially early on.  Just fan experience.  I think the next couple seasons will be joyless affairs on the North Side as they continue to watch their core decline and decay, ala the Giants of the last few years.  The story on our side of town will be prospect debuts, flashes of brilliance, inconsistent results but a steadily increasing level of play by a team on the rise - that stuff is fun to watch.

[wegner]

Pretty epic collapse by the Cubbies in the last week...losing 7 in a row...5 one run losses in a row at home.  I am not saying they are at the end of their run but the window is closing.

[almagest]

They have the talent to win 95-100 games on the offense still, and that likely won't change next year. They need a lot of pitching help though. Lester might be done, Hamels is probably a 5th starter at best, Quintana is best as a 3 or 4, Hendricks is fine, and hopefully, Darvish can continue pitching well. That's three dependable starters with only Darvish having ace potential -  you could argue Hendricks but I'd need to see 30+ starts and ~200 innings before I'd give that to him. They almost definitely don't have the money for Cole but that's a great fit for them. They also don't have much trade capital to acquire an ace. I assume they'll be active in the mid to lower-tier free-agent pitching market but will that be enough for them?

[chitownsportsfan]

Let me know when the Sox are packing in 35K+ into GRATE and the Cubs are mired around a 18K average.  Then you can crow.  I feel the pain of raising a kid in Chicago as a Sox fan but any talk of "tipping points" is way premature.  The Sox are positioned to perhaps grab some attention, that's about it.

[35thstreetswarm]

43 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Let me know when the Sox are packing in 35K+ into GRATE and the Cubs are mired around a 18K average.  Then you can crow.  I feel the pain of raising a kid in Chicago as a Sox fan but any talk of "tipping points" is way premature.  The Sox are positioned to perhaps grab some attention, that's about it.

But I'm not talking about attendance wars.  I'm talking about who's a better team to watch.  The Cubs outdrew the Sox in 2005, and I think most would agree who had the better year/team.

Edited September 25, 2019 by 35thstreetswarm

[poppysox]

5 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

It's been a tough few years to raise young Sox fans on the North Side.  I live walking distance to Wrigley, across the street from one of the more beloved Cubs players, weathered 2016, and have still managed to keep my four kids from straying to the Northsiders during their formative years. 

It has not come without considerable effort on my part.  I recognize it's tough for kids in the schoolyard to fend off "we're in the playoffs, you're in fourth place" with "oh yeah, well...we've got some really good prospects in Winston/Salem, Birmingham, and Charlotte."  I've assured my kids that the Sox are on an upward trend, the Cubs (at least since 2017 or so) trending downward, and that there would come a time when those trend lines cross.  When one could proclaim with a straight face -- say to an alien moving to Chicago and choosing a new team -- "you're better off picking the Sox right now." 

I think that moment came on Sunday, September 22, 2019.  I now feel comfortable saying that (generational loyalties aside) I'd rather be a Sox fan right now than a Cubs fan, at least for the next several years.  Am I too early?  Too late? 

 

 

*Apologies in advance to the "too cool to care about the Cubs" crowd.

Congratulations on the great job you are obviously doing raising your kids.?

[kitekrazy]

6 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Let me know when the Sox are packing in 35K+ into GRATE and the Cubs are mired around a 18K average.  Then you can crow.  I feel the pain of raising a kid in Chicago as a Sox fan but any talk of "tipping points" is way premature.  The Sox are positioned to perhaps grab some attention, that's about it.

I'd trade for the Cubs owner any day.  This list of "stupid" goes to Reinsdorf hands down. 

It's great to relish in the Cub's misery but in reality it's picking a speck when we have a log in our own eye.  Outside of both teams having a world series this century the choke factor is huge on both sides. 

 The Sox will always be the step child in Chicago.

 

[kitekrazy]

9 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

It's been a tough few years to raise young Sox fans on the North Side.  I live walking distance to Wrigley, across the street from one of the more beloved Cubs players, weathered 2016, and have still managed to keep my four kids from straying to the Northsiders during their formative years. 

It has not come without considerable effort on my part.  I recognize it's tough for kids in the schoolyard to fend off "we're in the playoffs, you're in fourth place" with "oh yeah, well...we've got some really good prospects in Winston/Salem, Birmingham, and Charlotte."  I've assured my kids that the Sox are on an upward trend, the Cubs (at least since 2017 or so) trending downward, and that there would come a time when those trend lines cross.  When one could proclaim with a straight face -- say to an alien moving to Chicago and choosing a new team -- "you're better off picking the Sox right now." 

I think that moment came on Sunday, September 22, 2019.  I now feel comfortable saying that (generational loyalties aside) I'd rather be a Sox fan right now than a Cubs fan, at least for the next several years.  Am I too early?  Too late? 

 

 

*Apologies in advance to the "too cool to care about the Cubs" crowd.

In my old community we also had Cardinal fans.

[joejoesox]

if tim wins the batting title, does that do anything for his trade value or is he pretty much a guy who probably won't net much in a trade?

because if his trade value is at it's peak right now, i'd say deal him for the right package

[Thad Bosley]

7 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

if tim wins the batting title, does that do anything for his trade value or is he pretty much a guy who probably won't net much in a trade?

because if his trade value is at it's peak right now, i'd say deal him for the right package

I suspect the Sox will decide on keeping their young, cost-controlled, batting champion shortstop for a little while.

[NWINFan]

49 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 The Sox will always be the step child in Chicago.

 

You're probably right about this, but it doesn't have to be like this. A team with an ownership and FO that has real ambition can start changing things. It's a huge undertaking, but the first step is to get over feeling like step children.

If the rebuild only produces some short term winning, then it hasn't succeeded. It's time to truly alter the direction of the franchise as a whole. I don't know if this ownership has the capability or will to do that. There's your tipping point.

[Harry Chappas]

Everything being equal (no fan support, stadium neighborhood, owner, etc) pure talent, likability and long term trajectory, the Sox look like the better team.

Now the cub can go sign Castelleanos (sp?) and Cole and the Sox can miss on Wheeler and we are one step forward, two steps back.

Robert, Madrigal, Cease, Dunning, Kopech, Jimenez, Moncada, Giolito.......that's something to build on

I thought missing on Machado and Harper hurt but now go win this off season.

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

I'd trade for the Cubs owner any day.  This list of "stupid" goes to Reinsdorf hands down. 

It's great to relish in the Cub's misery but in reality it's picking a speck when we have a log in our own eye.  Outside of both teams having a world series this century the choke factor is huge on both sides. 

 The Sox will always be the step child in Chicago.

 

Always is a very long time.

[daggins]

We're not in competition with the Cubs, we're in competition with the Twins and Cleveland. As ever, Chicago is not a Cubs or Sox city, it's a Bears city.

[Jack Parkman]

25 minutes ago, daggins said:

We're not in competition with the Cubs, we're in competition with the Twins and Cleveland. As ever, Chicago is not a Cubs or Sox city, it's a Bears city.

I don't know why. The Bears are just as pathetic as the baseball teams. If you're going on pure winning, the Blackhawks should be the toast of town, having won 3 Cups in the last decade. 

The Cubs, Sox and Bears only have 1 championship each in the modern era of their sport. There is no reason why any should be the most popular team in town. Even though the Bulls had the most success, they haven't won shit in 20 years. To be honest, the Sox are the city's best hope for the next champions, as I don't trust Trubisky to get the job done there. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Harry Chappas]

Pretty simple, because hockey is not football, basketball or baseball.  

People will follow the Blackhawks if they are winning.  If they are not winning nobody cares about them. 

If the Chicago Sky won every WNBA since it's inception or the Fire won the MLS, neither would be close to gaining any more relevance in the city.

 

 

 

 

[poppysox]

7 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

I suspect the Sox will decide on keeping their young, cost-controlled, batting champion shortstop for a little while.

Ya think?

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

Pretty simple, because hockey is not football, basketball or baseball.  

People will follow the Blackhawks if they are winning.  If they are not winning nobody cares about them. 

If the Chicago Sky won every WNBA since it's inception or the Fire won the MLS, neither would be close to gaining any more relevance in the city.

 

 

 

 

Don't put hockey in the same category as the WNBA or MLS. 

Even Charles Barkley thinks the Stanley Cup Playoffs is the best tournament in sports. 

[zisk]

Too early I think. Next September is my guess for White Sox superiority. With 1 full years experience for Cease,Kopech Madrigal,Robert and Collins.

Sox could be dominant for 5-10 years. Although we will never be as popular as the Cubs, a world series win will more than make up for it.  One more thing.

I've always kind of liked being the runt of the litter, so to speak. It makes winning a little sweeter.

 

[mqr]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

Don't put hockey in the same category as the WNBA or MLS. 

Even Charles Barkley thinks the Stanley Cup Playoffs is the best tournament in sports. 

It's not that far off in all but like 7 North American cities

[SpringfieldFan]

The Sox will overtake the Cubs in popularity right after the Mets overtake the Yankees and the Clippers overtake the Lakers. In other words, probably best to just look at what's going on on-field for any bragging rights.

[35thstreetswarm]

Just now, SpringfieldFan said:

The Sox will overtake the Cubs in popularity right after the Mets overtake the Yankees and the Clippers overtake the Lakers. In other words, probably best to just look at what's going on on-field for any bragging rights.

The latter is what I meant this thread to be about (on-field product) fwiw.  I don’t think anyone thinks the Sox will ever be more “popular” for lots of reasons.  I for one could care less.