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A Realistic Offseason


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1 hour ago, SCCWS said:

Some thoughts.  Grandal was not much better at .229/388/398 in 2nd half.  McCann was a 3.8 War to Grandal 2.5 ( mainly based on Grandal's poor defense). Also McCann cost $2.5 Mil and Grandal $16Mil. I think McCann is more likely what we saw 2nd half and Grandal pretty regularly has a poor 2nd half. Now your idea to only catch Grandal 50% may improve his poor 2nd halves. But I wonder if he will rejct only being a PT catcher. 

I would spend more money or use resources in RF than pay Grandal at least 4X what McCann gets.  Now if Grandal agrees to catch 50% and Sox think that solves his 2nd half swoons and also solves DH problem then maybe he is worth the money. 

First of all, LOL at .107 points in OBP being "not that much better".  Grandal is elite at getting on base, one of the Sox biggest weaknesses. 

Also, bWAR is garbage.  Grandal was the 2nd best catcher in baseball behind Realmuto this season with 5.2 fWAR.  McCann was 9th at 2.3 fWAR, less than half of Grandal.

There aren't really any RF that make sense that are going to cost a ton of money.  Sox are either going to trade for a controllable RF or sign a stop gappy guy like Dickerson, Calhoun, Gordon or Gardner at $10M max.  So its not like saving money on Grandal can be used to plug RF with an elite FA RF, because there aren't any.  

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41 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

There aren't really any RF that make sense that are going to cost a ton of money.  Sox are either going to trade for a controllable RF or sign a stop gappy guy like Dickerson, Calhoun, Gordon or Gardner at $10M max.  So its not like saving money on Grandal can be used to plug RF with an elite FA RF, because there aren't any.  

It's like Avi has the plague. Let's see. He has playoff experience, he hits .280, he knocks in 70 or more runs, he'll whack you over 25 homers in The Cell and he's a veteran presence who loved wearing a Sox uniform.

And on a team that needs to spend a ton of money he comes cheap. No more than 5 million a year for 3 years? Three years 15 mill or 3 years 18 million if you want to throw him some extra cash, with a few incentives maybe in case he finally reaches mini-Miggy potential? And yet no mention of Avi ever. We could fill that hole for pennies and we already have two catchers in Collins and McCann who are signed. Chances are Collins will succeed next season, not fail.

Finally think of all the money you could spend on pitching if you just sign Avi and give catcher to Collins/McCann? Is it this difficult? It's not like Avi is gonna hit .151 with an error a game? He may be butcher-like in the outfield, but he's a tad below average out there, not hopeless. Endorse this post, please! GO SOX!

p.s. If some reason by June, Avi is having a Palka-like season ... well you can throw Engle in there or even Palka. This isn't rocket science. My post saves the Sox a lot of cash, cash we need to REBUILD this pitching staff. ... and those who think you need an all star at every position. Last time I looked the Rays made the playoffs with you-know-who as a STARTER. He didn't ruin their team.

Edited by greg775
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39 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

First of all, LOL at .107 points in OBP being "not that much better".  Grandal is elite at getting on base, one of the Sox biggest weaknesses. 

Also, bWAR is garbage.  Grandal was the 2nd best catcher in baseball behind Realmuto this season with 5.2 fWAR.  McCann was 9th at 2.3 fWAR, less than half of Grandal.

There aren't really any RF that make sense that are going to cost a ton of money.  Sox are either going to trade for a controllable RF or sign a stop gappy guy like Dickerson, Calhoun, Gordon or Gardner at $10M max.  So its not like saving money on Grandal can be used to plug RF with an elite FA RF, because there aren't any.  

What math are you doing here? I'm seeing a .380 OBP from Grandal and .328 from McCann.

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8 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

What math are you doing here? I'm seeing a .380 OBP from Grandal and .328 from McCann.

I was replying to SCWCS or whatever (Boston guy) who said Grandal's 2nd half wasn't much better than McCanns.

McCann: .226/.281/.413

Grandal: .229/.388/.398

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4 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Grandal solves DH, catcher and 1B.  Between Grandal, Abreu, McCann and Collins, DH, 1B and C are all covered.  

McCann hit .226/.281/.413 in the second half with 72 Ks and 12 walks.  He was amazing in the 1st half and a deserving All Star, but signing Grandal to catch 50% of the time, DH 20% of the time and play 1B 20% of the time will really allow the Sox to not overexpose both McCann and Collins.

Grandal really is a fantastic fit, and he's also not going to be outrageously expensive.  He also showed a ton of improvement behind the plate in 2019.  

Not if you have a regular DH like Martinez and Abreu plays 1B 99% of the time like this year.  There just isn't room for Grandal.

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3 minutes ago, longshot7 said:

Not if you have a regular DH like Martinez and Abreu plays 1B 99% of the time like this year.  There just isn't room for Grandal.

There is always room for a guy like Grandal, but in my scenario Grandal would be instead of Martinez.  

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1 hour ago, Tony said:

No he won't, because he's never done that before, and he played over 4.5 seasons at that park. 

But keep living in greg world. Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason you're the only one interested in Avisail Garcia. I'll give you a hint, it's not because you're smarter than everyone else. It's the other thing....

The ball is live now. He hit 20 homers for Tampa this year in 125 games. It's easy to assume in the Cell with the live ball he could up that to 25 or more. The guy had a good year starting for a playoff team. I never said I was smartdf than everybody else. I happen to like Avi's game and he comes cheap. What's not to like? You've got to concede plug him into our lineup as one of our "weak links" and he fits in there nicely. if he's one of our worst hitters ... wow. And he's attainable. Again, he's on a playoff team for gosh sakes. It's not like he's some stiff. Conclusion: He's very affordable; he knows playoff baseball; he's a veteran presence. And we've still got Engle and Palka if for some reason he turns to crap.

I am against trading any of the tank/rebuild acquisitions BTW. If you are going to tank and acquire players, see this through. If that means Rutherford over Avi, fine.

Edited by greg775
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1 hour ago, greg775 said:

It's like Avi has the plague. Let's see. He has playoff experience, he hits .280, he knocks in 70 or more runs, he'll whack you over 25 homers in The Cell and he's a veteran presence who loved wearing a Sox uniform.

And on a team that needs to spend a ton of money he comes cheap. No more than 5 million a year for 3 years? Three years 15 mill or 3 years 18 million if you want to throw him some extra cash, with a few incentives maybe in case he finally reaches mini-Miggy potential? And yet no mention of Avi ever. We could fill that hole for pennies and we already have two catchers in Collins and McCann who are signed. Chances are Collins will succeed next season, not fail.

Finally think of all the money you could spend on pitching if you just sign Avi and give catcher to Collins/McCann? Is it this difficult? It's not like Avi is gonna hit .151 with an error a game? He may be butcher-like in the outfield, but he's a tad below average out there, not hopeless. Endorse this post, please! GO SOX!

p.s. If some reason by June, Avi is having a Palka-like season ... well you can throw Engle in there or even Palka. This isn't rocket science. My post saves the Sox a lot of cash, cash we need to REBUILD this pitching staff. ... and those who think you need an all star at every position. Last time I looked the Rays made the playoffs with you-know-who as a STARTER. He didn't ruin their team.

You're an idiot.

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42 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

You're an idiot.

Somebody educate me why my stance on this is bad. To summize: He's cheap; you know what u are going to get; financial resources can go to pitcher$ and lot$ of 'em. $eriously ... pretend his name is not Avi Garcia but Ted Wilson and tell me why my idea is bad. And what the hell is wrong with my idea to let a No. 10 draft pick who passes the eye test play??? Thank u.

Edited by greg775
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18 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Somebody educate me why my stance on this is bad. To summize: He's cheap; you know what u are going to get; financial resources can go to pitcher$ and lot$ of 'em. $eriously ... pretend his name is not Avi Garcia but Ted Wilson and tell me why my idea is bad. And what the hell is wrong with my idea to let a No. 10 draft pick who passes the eye test play??? Thank u.

He's not the worst option Greg.

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37 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Somebody educate me why my stance on this is bad. To summize: He's cheap; you know what u are going to get; financial resources can go to pitcher$ and lot$ of 'em. $eriously ... pretend his name is not Avi Garcia but Ted Wilson and tell me why my idea is bad. And what the hell is wrong with my idea to let a No. 10 draft pick who passes the eye test play??? Thank u.

I'm starting to like the idea of Gardner but if taking Avi gets me Cole and/or Strasburg I'm with you Greg.

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3 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I'm starting to like the idea of Gardner but if taking Avi gets me Cole and/or Strasburg I'm with you Greg.

Can u imagine how good we'd be if we signed Cole and Strasburg? Suddenly we'd HAVE to be division favorites if the squad is properly managed. Two phenom starters would change the outlook of this organization for sure. Be creative with set up and closer and BOOM. SOX WIN!

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2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Can u imagine how good we'd be if we signed Cole and Strasburg? Suddenly we'd HAVE to be division favorites if the squad is properly managed. Two phenom starters would change the outlook of this organization for sure. Be creative with set up and closer and BOOM. SOX WIN!

Cole and Strasburg coupled with Grandal and a competent RF + two good relievers and we are good to go.  The fun thing to think about is...we could actually afford it.  Not many teams can say that.

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Here's a preliminary plan

Odorizzi @ 3/54
Pomeranz @ 2/14
Nova @ 1/9
Smyly MiLB deal

Grandal @ 4/80
Abreu @ 2/24

Reynaldo Lopez for Brandon Nimmo 
Stiever and one of Rutherford/Adolfo/Basabe/Gonzalez for Mychal Givens

DFA Yolmer, Tender everyone else

C Grandal
1B Abreu
2B Madrigal
SS Anderson
3B Moncada
LF Jimenez
CF Robert
RF Nimmo
DH Some mix of Grandal/Collins/Abreu

Bench - McCann, Collins, Leury, Engel, Mendick

SP - Giolito, Cease, Odorizzi, Kopech, Nova (Rodon/Smyly/Dunning/Lambert/depth signings)
RP - Bummer, Colome, Herrera, Pomeranz, Givens, two of Hamilton/Burr/Marshall/Cordero/others)

Payroll ~120M 

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1 hour ago, daggins said:

Here's a preliminary plan

Odorizzi @ 3/54
Pomeranz @ 2/14
Nova @ 1/9
Smyly MiLB deal

Grandal @ 4/80
Abreu @ 2/24

Reynaldo Lopez for Brandon Nimmo 
Stiever and one of Rutherford/Adolfo/Basabe/Gonzalez for Mychal Givens

DFA Yolmer, Tender everyone else

C Grandal
1B Abreu
2B Madrigal
SS Anderson
3B Moncada
LF Jimenez
CF Robert
RF Nimmo
DH Some mix of Grandal/Collins/Abreu

Bench - McCann, Collins, Leury, Engel, Mendick

SP - Giolito, Cease, Odorizzi, Kopech, Nova (Rodon/Smyly/Dunning/Lambert/depth signings)
RP - Bummer, Colome, Herrera, Pomeranz, Givens, two of Hamilton/Burr/Marshall/Cordero/others)

Payroll ~120M 

I wouldn't mind Choo for DH. Only 1 year left on his deal, and I can't imagine him costing that much to acquire. .371 OBP and .828 OPS in over 500 at bats last year, which is right in line with his career averages.

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When’s the last time the Sox had a hitter of JDM’s caliber? The Big Hurt? This dude is a monster at the plate and changes the entire look of the lineup. Sorry, but Grandal just doesn’t have the same effect (I know but the defense, and I don’t care because I think Grandal’s D is overrated).

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12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

When’s the last time the Sox had a hitter of JDM’s caliber? The Big Hurt? This dude is a monster at the plate and changes the entire look of the lineup. Sorry, but Grandal just doesn’t have the same effect (I know but the defense, and I don’t care because I think Grandal’s D is overrated).

Yeah especially since guys are saying Grandal would mostly DH. Give me a better bat if he isn't starting behind the plate most of the time. Catcher spot is fine right now.

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7 hours ago, greg775 said:

It's like Avi has the plague. Let's see. He has playoff experience, he hits .280, he knocks in 70 or more runs, he'll whack you over 25 homers in The Cell and he's a veteran presence who loved wearing a Sox uniform.

And on a team that needs to spend a ton of money he comes cheap. No more than 5 million a year for 3 years? Three years 15 mill or 3 years 18 million if you want to throw him some extra cash, with a few incentives maybe in case he finally reaches mini-Miggy potential? And yet no mention of Avi ever. We could fill that hole for pennies and we already have two catchers in Collins and McCann who are signed. Chances are Collins will succeed next season, not fail.

Finally think of all the money you could spend on pitching if you just sign Avi and give catcher to Collins/McCann? Is it this difficult? It's not like Avi is gonna hit .151 with an error a game? He may be butcher-like in the outfield, but he's a tad below average out there, not hopeless. Endorse this post, please! GO SOX!

p.s. If some reason by June, Avi is having a Palka-like season ... well you can throw Engle in there or even Palka. This isn't rocket science. My post saves the Sox a lot of cash, cash we need to REBUILD this pitching staff. ... and those who think you need an all star at every position. Last time I looked the Rays made the playoffs with you-know-who as a STARTER. He didn't ruin their team.

Greg, did you see what Avi did tonight in the wildcard game? BOMB. Opposite field. One of the hardest hit in recent playoff history. 

 

 

Edited by ron883
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