A Realistic Offseason

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

1 hour ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Brewers listening on Hader per MLBTR. That would be very expensive prospect wise.

I don't believe in trading for or signing any high end RP until the rest of the team is ready and the team is competitive. I would love to have Hader, but I would rather wait a year and see how this team is doing before committing to that. RP is the most volatile position on a team, so if I am adding one, I am assuming that player could become worthless any season now, and there is no reason IMO to acquire someone like him now and risk that 2020 is that season, while the team isn't even in a position for a deep post-season run.

[bmags]

15 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They put it on 2019.

I imagine for their budgetary purposes it bought them an additional 5 million this year. 

It's an article posted in the abreu thread here. Says it's only 11 million this year for them for abreu.

But for budgetary purposes it’s the same group right. They took 5 mill from shareholders this year for an additional 5 next year? It’s a weird trick so it does matter where the Sox “feel” the money was spent.

Now that 5 mill comes pretty close to the money saved on the Castillo buyout and Jones contract. Perhaps that is where Hahn did a “look you all expected this amount gone already, let’s put the money toward Abreu this year and have more money on next”

But the questions that arise for me is how low is the projected budget for next year that he felt the need to do that?

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

But for budgetary purposes it’s the same group right. They took 5 mill from shareholders this year for an additional 5 next year? It’s a weird trick so it does matter where the Sox “feel” the money was spent.

Now that 5 mill comes pretty close to the money saved on the Castillo buyout and Jones contract. Perhaps that is where Hahn did a “look you all expected this amount gone already, let’s put the money toward Abreu this year and have more money on next”

But the questions that arise for me is how low is the projected budget for next year that he felt the need to do that?

We’re seriously overthinking things to worry over just $5 million when we wasted $35 million last offseason and needlessly gave Abreu another $32 million guaranteed without seeing how he’d perform in 2020 first.

Penny wise, pound foolish...

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

29 minutes ago, bmags said:

But for budgetary purposes it’s the same group right. They took 5 mill from shareholders this year for an additional 5 next year? It’s a weird trick so it does matter where the Sox “feel” the money was spent.

Now that 5 mill comes pretty close to the money saved on the Castillo buyout and Jones contract. Perhaps that is where Hahn did a “look you all expected this amount gone already, let’s put the money toward Abreu this year and have more money on next”

But the questions that arise for me is how low is the projected budget for next year that he felt the need to do that?

Idk, I imagine he has budgets every season and this just gave him a little more flexibility this year by putting 5 million on last years budget.

[ChiSox59]

Mets looking to shed salary and willing to attach assets to do so. 

Familia + Nimmo for scraps? 

[fathom]

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Mets looking to shed salary and willing to attach assets to do so. 

Familia + Nimmo for scraps? 

Sounds good to me

[BamaDoc]

Back on page one, I mentioned Mets looking to move salary and asked if taking Lowrie at 10 million could help get Nimmo.  Mets looking for a CF so I proposed Engel as part of the deal.  Lowrie had some weird/unknown injury so could be a total waste or bounce back at second base till Madrigal arrives.  If he could play, decent track record and switch hits.  Biggest problem for Familia is he is owed 24 plus million if traded as he has two years left and million a year trade escalators.  Hell if it gets you Nimmo cheap, if Lowrie awful in spring training cut him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

43 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Mets looking to shed salary and willing to attach assets to do so. 

Familia + Nimmo for scraps? 

Don't think Familia is the money they want to rid themselves. Cespedes and Cano both top that list . To take on that Cano contract they'd have to eat money and give up player(s) since its still got 4 years to go. Cespedes is 1 year $29.5M but with a full NTC. I don't know if the Mets are trying to take action to change his contract from guaranteed to non-guaranteed which is a better way to explain it then simply voiding it. Apparently Cespedes could play in 2020 since he has been taking BP .

Cano is owed $92M , AAV $24M with a cap hit of $20.25M  since the Mariners give them $3.75M every year for the final 4 years.  He also has a full no trade clause. Both would have to agree to waive the NTC.

[ChiSox59]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Don't think Familia is the money they want to rid themselves. Cespedes and Cano both top that list . To take on that Cano contract they'd have to eat money and give up player(s) since its still got 4 years to go. Cespedes is 1 year $29.5M but with a full NTC. I don't know if the Mets are trying to take action to change his contract from guaranteed to non-guaranteed which is a better way to explain it then simply voiding it. Apparently Cespedes could play in 2020 since he has been taking BP .

Cano is owed $92M , AAV $24M with a cap hit of $20.25M  since the Mariners give them $3.75M every year for the final 4 years.  He also has a full no trade clause. Both would have to agree to waive the NTC.

Rosenthal specifically mentioned Familia and Lowry. 

[BamaDoc]

Also Cespedes contract is insured and they get back around 70% if he doesn't play.

[BackDoorBreach]

52 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Also Cespedes contract is insured and they get back around 70% if he doesn't play.

He still counts against the tax though and they aren't that far off from it.

[BackDoorBreach]

Wrong thread.

Edited December 3, 2019 by BackDoorBreach

[hi8is]

Thought it’d be cool to speculate the post May 2020 team based on these latest rumors, ass-uming they all pan out.

??

SP - Wheeler
SP - Giolito
SP - Hamels
SP - Cease
SP - Lopez ( Kopech after May )

========

RF - Pederson ( L )
SS - Anderson ( R )
LF - Eloy ( R )
3B - Moncada ( S )
1B - Abreu ( R )
CF - Robert ( R )
C - Grandal ( S )
DH - McCann ( R )
2B - Madrigal ( R )

Edited December 4, 2019 by hi8is

[oneofthemikes]

3 hours ago, hi8is said:

Thought it’d be cool to speculate the post May 2020 team based on these latest rumors, ass-uming they all pan out.

??

SP - Wheeler
SP - Giolito
SP - Hamels
SP - Cease
SP - Lopez ( Kopech after May )

========

RF - Pederson ( L )
SS - Anderson ( R )
LF - Eloy ( R )
3B - Moncada ( S )
1B - Abreu ( R )
CF - Robert ( R )
C - Grandal ( S )
DH - McCann ( R )
2B - Madrigal ( R )

Holy cow! That's a team filled with major league baseball players! It's been a while since I feel like we could say that.

[Soxnfins]

I think we should take a flier on Taijuan Walker, if that healthy... always had a soft spot for him. He’s got a live arm and a pretty good cut fastball... I wonder who likes cut fastballs. 

[smellysox]

5 hours ago, hi8is said:

Thought it’d be cool to speculate the post May 2020 team based on these latest rumors, ass-uming they all pan out.

??

SP - Wheeler
SP - Giolito
SP - Hamels
SP - Cease
SP - Lopez ( Kopech after May )

========

RF - Pederson ( L )
SS - Anderson ( R )
LF - Eloy ( R )
3B - Moncada ( S )
1B - Abreu ( R )
CF - Robert ( R )
C - Grandal ( S )
DH - McCann ( R )
2B - Madrigal ( R )

Love that lineup! And the normalcy of the rotation.  No AAAA 5th starter! Someone we recognize and has a chance. Remember Lopez was our #2 at some points last year.

And now we have a legitimate bench with Leury, Collins, and Engel or whoever. And once Kopech is up then Lopez or whoever to the bullpen. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

On 12/1/2019 at 2:16 PM, ChiSox59 said:

ndbloom

I hate the idea of penciling in McCann for any DH at bats.

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

I hate the idea of penciling in McCann for any DH at bats.

Hate it all you want, but McCann is a lifetime .269/.331/.481 (136 OPS+) against LHP.  I assume he'll catch alot against LHP with Grandal at DH/1B, but he is likely going to get some DH starts against LHP.  Especially if the RF we add is a lefty (like Joc or Peralta) in which case Leury will likely already be in the OF a lot on those days, which means you can't shift Eloy to DH against LHP on a regular basis.   

[Colinski]

On 10/8/2019 at 8:26 PM, Colinski said:

 

So having had time to think about it, here is my off-season plan. Each position I want to upgrade will have a plan A and a plan B (RF, SP x2, Catcher/DH and RP). I will also add a few what ifs/ideas, some of which I’ve not yet see anyone consider. Simply if the plan A player doesn’t want to become a Sox or price gets unrealistic we go straight to plan B. The signings should also keep us under a too high wage bill.

 

Plan A. 

Starting Pitchers

 

STRASBURG- I think he will opt out. His injuries seem to be behind him and because of them he has only pitched 200 more innings life time than COLE. In spite of being older I think his track record and pedigree makes him a player I’d want. Don’t get me wrong I want COLE, but this might be more realistic.

 

KEUCHEL 

 

He was my main target last year and the same reasoning applies. He has a different profile (contact/ground-ball and lefty) to our other starters. He also doesn’t rely on a big fastball so shouldn’t fall off a cliff performance wise.

 

Plan B 

Strasburg’s plan B is Wheeler and Keuchel’s plan B is RYU.

 

I want to win and win big soon. These two have injury risk but if hit give us more than going for another plan B Option.

 

RIGHT FIELD

 

Plan A

CALHOUN - we need home runs, we need a left handed bat and we need to upgrade our fielding. Calhoun checks all of these. I know he doesn’t scream of plan A but the long term plan is give him a 1 year deal and next year we go stupidly hard for BETTS or SPRINGER. I know we don’t want stop gaps overall but this one makes so much sense.

 

PLAN B

DICKERSON or GARDNER

 

simply anyone who is better than what we had in 2019 and will take a one year deal.

 

CATCHER/DH

 

PLAN A

 

GRANDAL - the reasons have been stated across this board. Hits switch, other than one poor post season is a good catcher and guards against MCCANN regression or COLLINS not making it. 

 

PLAN B

 

DONALDSON - I love DONALDSON for us. I know he’s a righty hitter but I still want him. He can take MONCADA off his feat, ABREU off his, can DH. Basically he does what a MARTINEZ does but also has a position.

 

 

Relief Pitcher (note - I’m not too worried about this as I have faith one of HAMILTON or JOHNSON will step up, I think FULMER or CORDERO could do low leverage and we know we what we have in BUMMER now)

 

PLAN A

 

WILL HARRIS

 

400 innings nearly of sub 3 era (FIP 3.03) and shouldn’t cost more than we can afford.

 

Plan B

Collin MCHUGH - has the benefit of being able to pitch multiple innings 

 

Additional thoughts 

 

I’ve avoided MARTINEZ and CASTELLANOS for reasons of handedness, fielding and contract length. Simply I’d want to save the money for BETTS/SPRINGER. I know this might make people hate my plan... I’m okay with that

 

Eric THAMES is interesting to me as a left handed bench bat (if he ends up a free agent). 25 home runs and 1.6 WAR in less than 400 at bats

 

AVI GARCIA - I want him back. He solves the right field issue. I just think between our execs not wanting to accept they messed up and his unhappiness at been cut it won’t happen.

 

I also want us to try and sign MONCADA, GIOLITTO, ROBERT and MADRIGAL to extension (priority in that order). Simply I want to extend our contention window. 

 

I wouldn’t be too upset if we get a COLE/STRASBURG and then due to finances go for WOOD/NOVA as a second pitcher.

 

I also wouldn’t mind a left handed reliever as I don’t try FRY. I just don’t know which one I’d want. 

 

Line up wise I’d want Robert and Moncada one and two in the line up with Madrigal 9 until he learns to hit pitches he can hit with power rather than simply hit, which I think he has in him.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this if you have. I fully expect and encourage different opinions.

 

p.s wrote this on notes on my phone so might come out weird on here, sorry

My plan A is still intact ? time to go for Stras

[BamaDoc]

Ok, we didn't get Wheeler and you know what, the sun still came up and it is beautiful here in Alabama.  The Nationals lost Harper and won the World Series, not because Harper is bad but because they took that money and spent it well.  So we offered 25 million a year to a pitcher.  So lets play with 25 million in pitching.  We get to other positions later.  Again from my original post, I am not giving up significant prospects in a trade and wanting to avoid qualifying offers as I don't want to go to a contract length that justifies the draft pick lost  for this tier of pitchers.

Lefty starter, ground balls, I think he would like sticking it to his old club.....  Dallas Keuchle.  I know not sexy but it is what it is.  He could be our 3-4 starter and provide innings.  Three years at 13-15 per with some incentives should get it done.

Bullpen help.  Concerned that the Yankees have interest but Treinen as a bounce back works.  Supposedly they messed with him wanting higher heat rather than his sinker and some injury issues.  I considered Betances but a big guy with Achilles issues scares me.  I think one year 5 million maybe a option or as a last resort a second year works.

Early season starter who becomes a piggy back with Kopech when he returns.  Again, we need early season health and dependability.  This guy fits that and as a lefty would contrast lineup/stuff wise with Kopech.  Gio Gonzalez  one year think 3 million and incentives works as he had to do a minor league deal last year yet was 1.7 WAR in 19 starts.

Look at the tape and if you think you can fix the home run issues which were significant, Yimi Garcia.  Whip of .866.  Again only if you see something you think is fixable.  Should come cheap.  Maybe even minor league contract with spring invite? 

 

Okay not sexy but that is less than 25 million and answers some of our pitching questions.  Allows real major leaguers to be in the 4-5 pitching spots instead of the trash we had last year.  Lefties help balance things out.  

[joejoesox]

getting ahead of myself perhaps  but what are some key FA next offseason?  I know Betts is unless he reups with Boston

[bmags]

39 minutes ago, joesaiditstrue said:

getting ahead of myself perhaps  but what are some key FA next offseason?  I know Betts is unless he reups with Boston

Springer, Pederson, Syndegaard, Stroman, Ray among the bigger names.

[ChiSox59]

Trade Stiever + Sheets + Rutherford/Basabe to Dbacks for Robbie Ray and David Peralta. 

Sign Ryu 3/$63

Sign Blake Trenien 2/$16M

Sign Kevin Pillar 2/$12M

Sign Derek Dietrich 1/$3M

OD payroll: ~$135M

Lineup by mid May: Robert CF, Moncada 3B, Abreu 1B, Grandal C/DH, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Peralta RF, Collins/McCann DH/C, Madrigal 2B

BN: Collins/McCann, Leury, Dietrich, Pillar 

Pillar fills in CF until Robert arrives mid May, Dietrich 2B until Madrigal arrives mid May. Leury fills in both spots occasionally. 

I think this is about as good and realistic as we can hope for. Opens RF up in 2021 for Betts/Springer/Brantley/Joc.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Springer, Pederson, Syndegaard, Stroman, Ray among the bigger names.

Syndergaard isn't until 2 years from now. 

[BamaDoc]

Ment to add Taijuan Walker as another guy I would try to add as starting depth.  Further back from TJ surgery and should be ready to go.  Might sell our medical program/staff as we should have enough experience with TJ recovery to appear impressive.  If nothing else the management plan we have for the numerous pitchers coming back could show him he wouldn't be abused or over worked.