A Realistic Offseason

[Sarava]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

I don't get the negativity so often expressed on all things front office.  We are where they indicated the Sox would be when we started the rebuild.  Actually we are probably ahead of schedule a bit.  We are starting with 2020 a good long run of competitive teams.  Probably the beginning of the longest stretch of solid teams since the 1950's.  Enjoy the offseason as the final parts are assembled and enjoy the next decade or so.

With the Cubs on a gentle slide backwards right now, the Sox have a golden opportunity to grab the bull by the horns this winter and take alot of the baseball attention for this city. I really hope they do it. And we should keep in mind, the Sox have 'won' the winter meetings a couple of times in recent years. there was the year signing LaRoche and Robertson and trading for Shark...then the start of the rebuild with the Sale ad Eaton trades. I think they do like the attention big splashes at the winter meetings brings. I'm hoping they go for it again.

[Chicago White Sox]

24 minutes ago, bmags said:

Bum is the perfect vet pitcher to add to a young team aspiring to go to playoffs.

And more so than wheeler, seems like that pitcher that just can grind even when stuff fails.

Id be thrilled with Bum, and holding my breath with Wheeler.

Bumgarner is only one year older and his arm has over 1,000 more innings on it than Wheeler and that’s not including the post-season.  That’s a ton of mileage and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if that arms ends up giving soon.  And yes, I’m fully aware of Wheeler’s past health issues, but outside of TJS and a rough recovery shortly thereafter, he’s been pretty durable and has 60 starts over the last two seasons.  All pitching is a risk, but if push comes to show I’m taking the guy with better stuff and less mileage on his arm.  Just my opinion.

[Chicago White Sox]

28 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He hits the ball hard. His xBABIP was .386. His actual BABIP was .403. It's actually sustainable, wild as it sounds. 

Where did you find his xBABIP out of curiosity and is that accounting for his speed?

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

I don't get the negativity so often expressed on all things front office.  We are where they indicated the Sox would be when we started the rebuild.  Actually we are probably ahead of schedule a bit.  We are starting with 2020 a good long run of competitive teams.  Probably the beginning of the longest stretch of solid teams since the 1950's.  Enjoy the offseason as the final parts are assembled and enjoy the next decade or so.

This is why we're negative: 

I believe this to be true, and not clickbait. It makes a metric shit ton of sense and explains everything over the last two decades. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Bumgarner is only one year older and his arm has over 1,000 more innings on it than Wheeler and that’s not including the post-season.  That’s a ton of mileage and I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if that arms ends up giving soon.  And yes, I’m fully aware of Wheeler’s past health issues, but outside of TJS and a rough recovery shortly thereafter, he’s been pretty durable and has 60 starts over the last two seasons.  All pitching is a risk, but if push comes to show I’m taking the guy with better stuff and less mileage on his arm.  Just my opinion.

Some pitchers are just built for the long haul. Scherzer has pitched a ton, and you’d be foolish to bet that Strasburg will pitch more innings than him in the next few years just due to mileage.

 

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Where did you find his xBABIP out of curiosity and is that accounting for his speed?

On twitter, and yes that does account for it. 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is why we're negative: 

I believe this to be true, and not clickbait. It makes a metric shit ton of sense and explains everything over the last two decades. 

For the love of god, get this garbage out of this thread.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For the love of god, get this garbage out of this thread.

I'm going to laugh my ass off when the "Rotation Upgrades" are Odorizzi and Wood and the "lineup upgrades" are Corey Dickerson and Kole Calhoun. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Some pitchers are just built for the long haul. Scherzer has pitched a ton, and you’d be foolish to bet that Strasburg will pitch more innings than him in the next few years just due to mileage.

 

I don’t disagree, some guys are more durable than others and simply defy the odds.  I just personally think Bumgarner has been used & abused by the Giants.  By no means would I be upset by his addition, I just think his arm is high risk to blow up at some point.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm going to laugh my ass off when the "Rotation Upgrades" are Odorizzi and Wood and the "lineup upgrades" are Corey Dickerson and Kole Calhoun. 

Your pessimism is on Moan4Yoan levels annoying.  Like my god, I get you have autism and automatically fear the worst, but you’ve become completely irrational and a total slog to this board.  Posting ridiculously dumb rumors in multiple threads to feed your insane negativity is a new all-time low for you.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Your pessimism is on Moan4Yoan levels annoying.  Like my god, I get you have autism and automatically fear the worst, but you’ve become completely irrational and a total slog to this board.  Posting ridiculously dumb rumors in multiple threads to feed your insane negativity is a new all-time low for you.

It's not pessimism. I was actually a lot more optimistic than M4Y until I saw this. You put everything into context from the last 25 years of Sox baseball and it makes perfect sense. It fits like a missing puzzle piece. I'm not even angry right now I'm depressed, and I'm questioning whether or not I should give the Sox the Dollar Bill treatment. They don't deserve my loyalty and fandom if they're going to behave this way. 

If you look at the way he runs the Sox and Bulls it's clear he's not interested in winning championships. He's keeping his teams just a notch below that level. 

I don't want to believe this, but 25 years of evidence points to it.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Colinski]

Jack is entitled to his opinion on this.. but by god I wish he kept that opinion to one thread only !

Edited October 5, 2019 by Colinski

[ChiSox1917]

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I don't see us getting both JDM and Grandal.  Part of the Grandal allure is ability to DH.  The rest of your "wants" are how I see it as well.

I want zero part of either of these guys.  JDM is a DH only.  He is atrocious defensively.  You get better value going after Ozuna, and it's not even close.  Grandal has also been one of the luckiest hitters the last two years and I'd expect major regression in his batting average going forward.  He is a .220/.230 hitter who got a little lucky the last two years hitting close to .250.  He's a decent framer, but also can't stop a running game having one of the worst pop times in the game.  He screams regression from a free agent standpoint.  

 

11 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Yeah, but what worries me is that Merkin is state propaganda so to speak. 

I was ok with the hitters on the list but they're aiming way too low on the pitchers. 

Yeah that was it. 

Funny.  I am good with the pitchers named, but not a big fan of the hitters.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

It's not pessimism. I was actually a lot more optimistic than M4Y until I saw this. You put everything into context from the last 25 years of Sox baseball and it makes perfect sense. It fits like a missing puzzle piece. I'm not even angry right now I'm depressed, and I'm questioning whether or not I should give the Sox the Dollar Bill treatment. They don't deserve my loyalty and fandom if they're going to behave this way. 

If you look at the way he runs the Sox and Bulls it's clear he's not interested in winning championships. He's keeping his teams just a notch below that level. 

I don't want to believe this, but 25 years of evidence points to it.

No real reason to be depressed Jack.It's just baseball. I'm as big a Sox fan as there is out there and they mean a lot to me but in the grand scheme of things the best I can do is say sports is a long time hobby. that I really don't spend any money on being a California Sox fan. I hope for the best like many others and have had many complaints about how the have run the franchise and the rebuild, But in the end all I have is my hopes . I didn't need one more quote from 18 years ago to establish what I already knew.

Hoping for the best but it's not like I haven't been disappointed with the Sox before in the last 45+ years of my life. It comes with the territory.

As an aside. I wanted to mention this at some point but never quite found the forum to do it.

My older brother organized an impromptu family reunion and got the Sox to agree to let my 85 yr old father throw out the 1st pitch on the DH games scheduled for Sept. 27 as part of a 4 generation of Sox fans reunion at the ballpark. Amazingly I was able to go as were all 4 of my brothers  one of whom lives in Maryland and another in Michigan. I saw many relatives I hadn't seen in a long time including 2 of my father's brothers, my older brothers kids, all my brothers and an adopted niece I had never met since she was adopted 16 years ago Also amazingly I got my daughter who lives in the Bay area to go and also my son from Arizona though all his flights were cancelled or delayed and by the time he finally got there I was gone. The Sox also comped the tickets for around 20 of us. It was a wonderful time even though the games were rained out and my father was very happy to see us all and get on the field and Danny Mendick caught the pitch and gave Dad an autograph on the ball.

I bring this up because these are the things that matter most . The fandom can create moments like this or the random World Series win or memories of going to games with the old man when younger and even fiascos like the Disco Demolition game I attended with him and a brother. To put it all in perspective the results are secondary to my fandom .

[Jack Parkman]

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

No real reason to be depressed Jack.It's just baseball. I'm as big a Sox fan as there is out there and they mean a lot to me but in the grand scheme of things the best I can do is say sports is a long time hobby. that I really don't spend any money on being a California Sox fan. I hope for the best like many others and have had many complaints about how the have run the franchise and the rebuild, But in the end all I have is my hopes . I didn't need one more quote from 18 years ago to establish what I already knew.

Hoping for the best but it's not like I haven't been disappointed with the Sox before in the last 45+ years of my life. It comes with the territory.

As an aside. I wanted to mention this at some point but never quite found the forum to do it.

My older brother organized an impromptu family reunion and got the Sox to agree to let my 85 yr old father throw out the 1st pitch on the DH games scheduled for Sept. 27 as part of a 4 generation of Sox fans reunion at the ballpark. Amazingly I was able to go as were all 4 of my brothers  one of whom lives in Maryland and another in Michigan. I saw many relatives I hadn't seen in a long time including 2 of my father's brothers, my older brothers kids, all my brothers and an adopted niece I had never met since she was adopted 16 years ago Also amazingly I got my daughter who lives in the Bay area to go and also my son from Arizona though all his flights were cancelled or delayed and by the time he finally got there I was gone. The Sox also comped the tickets for around 20 of us. It was a wonderful time even though the games were rained out and my father was very happy to see us all and get on the field and Danny Mendick caught the pitch and gave Dad an autograph on the ball.

I bring this up because these are the things that matter most . The fandom can create moments like this or the random World Series win or memories of going to games with the old man when younger and even fiascos like the Disco Demolition game I attended with him and a brother. To put it all in perspective the results are secondary to my fandom .

My dad isn't even a Sox fan. He's a Dodger fan that lives in Chicago that also hates/likes to troll the Cubs. I used to think he was a Sox fan but I've learned otherwise over the last decade. He's never lived in LA(or anywhere outside of the Chicago area for that matter) but he's a fan of all of their teams. Lakers, Raiders(they used to be in LA), Dodgers. I don't get it. Most of my friends are Cub fans. I really don't have anyone to share them with other than this board. 

I'm seriously considering just abandoning the Sox until JR is no longer the owner, but I know that if they start to win I won't be able to stay away. I'm giving them through 2023 when Moncada and Giolito are up and if they don't win a division at the very least I'm jumping ship until new ownership arrives. You have 4 seasons JR. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[thxfrthmmrs]

Even if Cole wants to come here and JR opens the pocket for him, one thing I’m worried about is how much he will regress after leaving Astros. If he’s somewhere in between Pirates and Astros version, is he still worth a $240M contract?

[Black_Jack29]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

This is why we're negative: 

I believe this to be true, and not clickbait. It makes a metric shit ton of sense and explains everything over the last two decades. 

Please stop peddling clickbait hearsay as fact.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Even if Cole wants to come here and JR opens the pocket for him, one thing I’m worried about is how much he will regress after leaving Astros. If he’s somewhere in between Pirates and Astros version, is he still worth a $240M contract?

Well you certainly hope that a former first round pick who is about to win a Cy Young award will have at least a few more excellent seasons in him...but the other important thing to note - if guys remain good pitchers those contracts are movable. The Tigers were able to move Verlander. The Diamondbacks were able to move Greinke. The Dodgers kept Kershaw even after an opt out. Hell, Seattle somehow moved Cano. You might have to spend a little money to do it, but as long as the guy doesn't Darvish it, a few years down the line the contract can be moved. 

[Thad Bosley]

4 hours ago, poppysox said:

I don't get the negativity so often expressed on all things front office.  

Then you are completely unfamiliar with, or choose to totally ignore, the FO’s long-running record of futility.  

Why is it so difficult for you to reconcile fan sentiment where it stands today with all of the incompetence demonstrated the past two decades by this FO, the same FO who would have been relieved of their duties a long time ago by anyone of the other 29 clubs.

The negativity you see today is a cumulative effect of all of the losing witnessed by our fan base as a result of this front office.  The only thing to make that negativity dissipate is to FINALLY start winning again.  

It’s not enough in the least bit to be content just because the team is in the stage in the rebuild where the FO said it would be right now.  That’s just a stage in a rebuild - it’s NOT winning White Sox baseball.  Not yet, anyway.  

Plenty to be optimistic about, no doubt, but still plenty to be skeptical and even negative about; again, anchoring to the FO’s record.  It’s up to the FO to change the fan base’s perception of them.  

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Well you certainly hope that a former first round pick who is about to win a Cy Young award will have at least a few more excellent seasons in him...but the other important thing to note - if guys remain good pitchers those contracts are movable. The Tigers were able to move Verlander. The Diamondbacks were able to move Greinke. The Dodgers kept Kershaw even after an opt out. Hell, Seattle somehow moved Cano. You might have to spend a little money to do it, but as long as the guy doesn't Darvish it, a few years down the line the contract can be moved. 

I think Cole’s case is different because he essentially became a different pitcher after working with Astros’ pitching staff and analytics team. I’m just wondering how much it will impact him negatively moving to a situation less suited for him to be successful.

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, Thad Bosley said:

Then you are completely unfamiliar with, or choose to totally ignore, the FO’s long-running record of futility.  

Why is it so difficult for you to reconcile fan sentiment where it stands today with all of the incompetence demonstrated the past two decades by this FO, the same FO who would have been relieved of their duties a long time ago by anyone of the other 29 clubs.

The negativity you see today is a cumulative effect of all of the losing witnessed by our fan base as a result of this front office.  The only thing to make that negativity dissipate is to FINALLY start winning again.  

It’s not enough in the least bit to be content just because the team is in the stage in the rebuild where the FO said it would be right now.  That’s just a stage in a rebuild - it’s NOT winning White Sox baseball.  Not yet, anyway.  

Plenty to be optimistic about, no doubt, but still plenty to be skeptical and even negative about; again, anchoring to the FO’s record.  It’s up to the FO to change the fan base’s perception of them.  

My skepticism isn't going to go away until they make the ALDS for 2 consecutive seasons for the first time in franchise history. 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[poppysox]

40 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Then you are completely unfamiliar with, or choose to totally ignore, the FO’s long-running record of futility.  

Why is it so difficult for you to reconcile fan sentiment where it stands today with all of the incompetence demonstrated the past two decades by this FO, the same FO who would have been relieved of their duties a long time ago by anyone of the other 29 clubs.

The negativity you see today is a cumulative effect of all of the losing witnessed by our fan base as a result of this front office.  The only thing to make that negativity dissipate is to FINALLY start winning again.  

It’s not enough in the least bit to be content just because the team is in the stage in the rebuild where the FO said it would be right now.  That’s just a stage in a rebuild - it’s NOT winning White Sox baseball.  Not yet, anyway.  

Plenty to be optimistic about, no doubt, but still plenty to be skeptical and even negative about; again, anchoring to the FO’s record.  It’s up to the FO to change the fan base’s perception of them.  

As I stated in my post...the Sox are positioned to start a long lasting winning streak next year.  We have probably the best assortment of potential stars at any time of my 65 years of Sox fandom....and the money to complete the mission.  Why would I want to keep rehashing perceived mistakes of the past?  I try to enjoy what I can regarding the Sox since I have no control over what the FO does or doesn't do.  My next 5 months will be spent envisioning the great lineup and dominant pitching staff that is being assembled.  "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."  That is  version of the Serenity Prayer authored by R. Niebuhr in 1934.

[SonofaRoache]

14 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As I stated in my post...the Sox are positioned to start a long lasting winning streak next year.  We have probably the best assortment of potential stars at any time of my 65 years of Sox fandom....and the money to complete the mission.  Why would I want to keep rehashing perceived mistakes of the past?  I try to enjoy what I can regarding the Sox since I have no control over what the FO does or doesn't do.  My next 5 months will be spent envisioning the great lineup and dominant pitching staff that is being assembled.  "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."  That is  version of the Serenity Prayer authored by R. Niebuhr in 1934.

Wow you've been a fan for 65 years? It's awesome that you will get to see a nice long run of success. 

[Thad Bosley]

13 minutes ago, poppysox said:

As I stated in my post...the Sox are positioned to start a long lasting winning streak next year.  We have probably the best assortment of potential stars at any time of my 65 years of Sox fandom....and the money to complete the mission.  Why would I want to keep rehashing perceived mistakes of the past?  I try to enjoy what I can regarding the Sox since I have no control over what the FO does or doesn't do.  My next 5 months will be spent envisioning the great lineup and dominant pitching staff that is being assembled.  "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."  That is  version of the Serenity Prayer authored by R. Niebuhr in 1934.

Optimism about what lies ahead, and skepticism and negativity about how this front office will see this thing through, are all legitimate emotions at this point in time.  

[Jack Parkman]

1 minute ago, Thad Bosley said:

Optimism about what lies ahead, and skepticism and negativity about how this front office will see this thing through, are all legitimate emotions at this point in time.  

This. Nice post.