A Realistic Offseason

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

With Robert and Madrigal in the 2020 White Sox lineup I don't expect Hahn to add  much to the lineup this off season. Marco Gonzales was rumored to be traded a few months ago. He might be a target for Hahn. He's young and he 's a lefty. something the White Sox don't have in their rotation. Hopefully they will acquire either Odorizzi or Wheeler to help out the starting rotation.  Other than acquiring starting pitching I don't expect a lot of activity from Hahn.

Hahn has already stated a need to upgrade both RF & DH.

[Dick Allen]

Robert and Madrigal should improve the horrific defense, but the problem is they will be replacing Yolmer and about half the time Engel, the Sox best 2 defenders, so the impact will not be big.  Defense needs to improve. On base needs to improve. Power needs to improve. Strikeouts need to decline. Staring pitching needs to improve. Bullpen needs to improve.

Despite several much improved performances, this team is still a shitshow. Who knows who gets hurt next year.  The Sox are going to need Robert and Madrigal to be pretty competent from the get go, some improvement from others across the board, and uncle Jerry to spend a lot of money this winter, and have those hit for half of this board to not be rooting for White Sox losses next season.If it is like this year, 95 wins gets you tee times the day after the regular season ends due to the game becoming extreme. You are either very good or very bad. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Dick Allen

[SonofaRoache]

27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Robert and Madrigal should improve the horrific defense, but the problem is they will be replacing Yolmer and about half the time Engel, the Sox best 2 defenders, so the impact will not be big.  Defense needs to improve. On base needs to improve. Power needs to improve. Strikeouts need to decline. Staring pitching needs to improve. Bullpen needs to improve.

Despite several much improved performances, this team is still a shitshow. Who knows who gets hurt next year.  The Sox are going to need Robert and Madrigal to be pretty competent from the get go, some improvement from others across the board, and uncle Jerry to spend a lot of money this winter, and have those hit for half of this board to not be rooting for White Sox losses next season.If it is like this year, 95 wins gets you tee times the day after the regular season ends due to the game becoming extreme. You are either very good or very bad. 

Very good points. But FA is key and can change our fortunes. Signing 2 starters and getting Kopech and Rodon back improved the rotation and bullpen. I think 90 ish games takes the division next year and Minny will fall back to the pack. Cleveland will probably win 82 to 88. 

[Flash]

Hopefully, we will improve defensively. It will manifest in better pitching metrics. The strong offensive performances by Anderson and Abreu might lull us into overlooking how badly they field their positions (I understand Anderson has exceptional range and is still learning SS, so no need to come to his defense).  The Yankees and Cubs have several assets who are in limbo for 2020. In addition to Gardner, I like the idea of Gregorious. On the Cubs, Happ and Schwarber are interesting although I doubt they would move Schwarber.  

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

This board’s obsession with Grandal is nearly matching last winter’s obsession with Machado. Pass. Pitching should be priority #1, #2, and #3 followed by RF and DH. They’re fine at catcher for next season just like they were fine at infield this season. No reason to spend big bucks on that position with McCann back and Collins waiting in the wings.

[Capital G]

17 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Thanks Greg.  As the post was long, didn't mention a couple other things I would do.  Robert and Madrigal arriving allow Leury to become the super utility.  I would offer Yolmer 3 yrs 10-12 million and if you can't work out a deal trade/nontender him.  Leury has to work on fixing the so/w issues.  For a guy  with little power a 138/20 so/w ratio is unacceptable.  If you get to late innings and use him in left with Robert cf, Gardner rf , that would actually give you some decent defense.  Credit to him for a healthier year and their positional versatility could allow you to carry Collins as a third catcher LH DH/1B.  Maybe even free Yermin!  

There are a host of bullpen pitchers at AAA and lower who I think will allow you to piece together a decent bullpen.  Colome and Herrera will cost about 18 million next year so I don't know if another expensive arm is added.  It would be nice if Burdi, Hamilton, or Burr could reestablish their ceilings.  Few mention that with relievers having to face 3 batters or the end of an inning how it will impact LOOGYs.  Bummer has no split issues so lefties like him will have even higher value.  Left handed batters may be a little better off if they aren't facing LOOGYs anymore which is another reason I wish to add some LH bats.

Why sign Yolmer when Mendick has so far (i know, small sample size) proven himself? Way cheaper. Yolmer can play D but his bat is blah. Also.... isnt he a FA in 20?

 

I'd take Gardner over what we have but hopefully that's not at the top of their plans.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This board’s obsession with Grandal is nearly matching last winter’s obsession with Machado. Pass. Pitching should be priority #1, #2, and #3 followed by RF and DH. They’re fine at catcher for next season just like they were fine at infield this season. No reason to spend big bucks on that position with McCann back and Collins waiting in the wings.

It's funny they rag on the Twins for having guys who were busted for juicing but want the Sox to get a guy who was busted for juicing. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's funny they rag on the Twins for having guys who were busted for juicing but want the Sox to get a guy who was busted for juicing. 

Like Machado, Grandal is another guy I don’t trust once he gets paid.

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This board’s obsession with Grandal is nearly matching last winter’s obsession with Machado. Pass. Pitching should be priority #1, #2, and #3 followed by RF and DH. They’re fine at catcher for next season just like they were fine at infield this season. No reason to spend big bucks on that position with McCann back and Collins waiting in the wings.

This isn’t an either or thing...the Sox can and will load up on pitching and add a few bats.  Adding Grandal does NOT prevent them addressing the pitching staff in any way, shape, or form IMO.

Let me ask you this, who is it you want to add at DH?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This isn’t an either or thing...the Sox can and will load up on pitching and add a few bats.  Adding Grandal does NOT prevent them addressing the pitching staff in any way, shape, or form IMO.

Let me ask you this, who is it you want to add at DH?

Come on man. I’ve been saying it for a year now. JDM 1, Castallenos 2 (if JDM doesn’t opt out). 

[Chicago White Sox]

46 minutes ago, Capital G said:

Why sign Yolmer when Mendick has so far (i know, small sample size) proven himself? Way cheaper. Yolmer can play D but his bat is blah. Also.... isnt he a FA in 20?

 

I'd take Gardner over what we have but hopefully that's not at the top of their plans.

I think Mendick has done enough to get first crack at the reserve infielder job next year.  Take the $4M or Yolmer will earn this year and use it elsewhere.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Come on man. I’ve been saying it for a year now. JDM 1, Castallenos 2 (if JDM doesn’t opt out). 

And what if we extend Abreu for two or three years?   What’s your plan with Vaughn?

[NWINFan]

Realistically, I think the Sox will be somewhat active this off season because even they know they have to do something or totally alienate what fans they have left. But I don't think they will go overboard on their spending. 

These expensive long-term contracts deeply concern me for obvious reasons. But they are a trend and they won't go away because the White Sox are holding the line. What also concerns me is that the Sox will pass on an opportunity even when it may greatly improve the team. This concern goes past this off season.

[Dick Allen]

Castellanos , I don’t understand the admiration. He is horrible in the field and another, except for this contract year, average OBP guy who won’t hit anywhere close to40 homers. He will be a big overpay IMO.I am praying the Cubs bring him back

He is basically a poor man’s Jose Abreu. I would rather roll with the real version.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Dick Allen

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Castellanos , I don’t understand the admiration. He is horrible in the field and another, except for this contract year, average OBP guy who won’t hit anywhere close to40 homers. He will be a big overpay IMO.I am praying the Cubs bring him back

To me, this is very simple.  Grandal is as good of a hitter as Castellanos, fits our lineup needs much better (lefty + elite OBP), and actually brings good defense at a positional of skill.  Give me Yasmani any day of the week over Nicholas.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

This free agent class outside of the top two guys who the Sox have zero chance of signing is very underwhelming.  Good GM's struggle filling holes via free agency and Rick Hahn is no where near a good GM so I'd like to see him to acquire upgrades via trades.  Hahn seems to be a little better at the trade game.  

[SCCWS]

19 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

If we could negotiate an extension with Mookie before trading for him you do that all day.  Not that this has any chance of happening.  

Agree. Sounds like he wants to test the market regardless.  I think he will insist on leading off and playing CF wherever he goes but with that ability the team will say yes. 

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

This free agent class outside of the top two guys who the Sox have zero chance of signing is very underwhelming.  Good GM's struggle filling holes via free agency and Rick Hahn is no where near a good GM so I'd like to see him to acquire upgrades via trades.  Hahn seems to be a little better at the trade game.  

There is plenty of free agent pitching available.  Four of the top 14 starters in terms of fWAR will be free agents (Cole, Strasburg, Ryu, & Wheeler) plus other several other semi-interesting guys in Bumgarner (3.2), Odorizzi (4.3), Gibson (2.6), Hamels (2.5), and Alex Wood.

IMO, there is zero reason to trade for pitching.  The hitting class is very underwhelming after Rendon, Grandal, & JDM if he declines his option.  A trade would be more justifiable there, but we don’t have a lot of expendable chips.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

29 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Castellanos , I don’t understand the admiration. He is horrible in the field and another, except for this contract year, average OBP guy who won’t hit anywhere close to40 homers. He will be a big overpay IMO.I am praying the Cubs bring him back

He is basically a poor man’s Jose Abreu. I would rather roll with the real version.

He’s 27 and his OPS the last 4 seasons are 827, 811, 854, 863 in order. That’s the appeal.

[GreenSox]

53 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I think Mendick has done enough to get first crack at the reserve infielder job next year.  Take the $4M or Yolmer will earn this year and use it elsewhere.

I agree he has - wish they'd have played him more.
Another player who has earned a return engagement albeit stealthily:  Engel.  It may be just luck or whatever, but his offensive numbers have seriously improved this season. .9 WAR in 1/2 a season of work. Want to keep improving players.
Yolmer and Leury can go.

They spent $30 mil last year on Nova, Alonso, Herrera and Jay.   They could spend $70 million this year and get 3 starters and 2 good hitters and thus be respectable across the diamond with several positions a lot better than respectable.

Edited September 29, 2019 by GreenSox

[BamaDoc]

With my plan there are no contracts beyond three years.  It maintains all our flexibility while we see how the later prospects develop.  Grandal is the only higher dollar guy.  He turned down 4-60 so I don't think 15 a year will do it especially when other teams will be in the mix.  It is why I front load the deal(24/20/16) to make it more appealing to him, put teams with tighter payrolls at a disadvantage, and make him cheaper as he ages and performance might decline.  Having a solid defensive catcher is important for our young starters. Last 4 yrs OPS .816,.767, .815, .843.  Total WAR 4 yrs 11.5 (Castellanos 4 yr WAR 6.3)(Gardner 4 yr WAR 15.2!)  Gloves mater, a run prevented is as good as a run scored.  

Yolmer is not a star and his WAR has gone from 3.5>2.6>2.2 while he got more expensive, 4.6 million this year.  Yet, only six guys had more WAR on this team.  He would become a backup for us and thus I drop his pay while guaranteeing him some longevity.  Look at the injuries contending teams have overcome.  You could play him awhile and suffer less than many.  Most sites value one WAR at 7-8 million.  At a 3.3 million avg it is not overpaying.  He is more expensive than Mendick(still unproven and zero walks)  who would be plan B if Yolmer wants more money or a starting role but for now we can afford it.  He came up through our Latin American program and it was mentioned how he is looked at as a model for that program amongst the young guys involved now.  Obviously popular amongst teammates, I am giving him a chance to remain at a fair price while giving him some financial security.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

If you guys could only have one of Grandal or JD Martinez, who would you pick?

[Jerksticks]

2 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

If you guys could only have one of Grandal or JD Martinez, who would you pick?

Martinez in a heartbeat.  That bat man

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

If you guys could only have one of Grandal or JD Martinez, who would you pick?

Grandal, especially if we plan on retaining Abreu for multiple years.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I really like Yolmer as a bench guy.  I think he'll be non-tendered but unlike Avi he will accept the lower offer to come back.  The obvious problem is Ricky will find a way to play him everyday.