A Realistic Offseason

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Sure he'll spend. He spent $40 million last year....on Colome (Yea), Herrera, Nova, Jay,  and Alonso.

On other topics:

 JBJ.  Full Season WAR:  1.4;  Adam Engel 1/2 season WAR:  .8

37 year old Cano and his .736 OPS, with a 4 year commitment?  (not to mention what the Sox will have to send to reduce that $96 million payroll liability).   What?

The Sox have scant little pitching. Stiever needs to be treated like the top prospect he is; not some trade fodder for average players.

Is Nimmo an average player?

[GreenSox]

Also thumbs up to signing Wheeler (should be a priority - he's realistic) and Grandal (in which case I would see what teams would offer for McCann).

Smith is really good too; but I think I'd leave Colome as closer and use Smith and his stuff to get out of jams.

Edited October 12, 2019 by GreenSox

[ron883]

What are the chances that we don't bring Colome back? 10%?

[Chicago White Sox]

3 minutes ago, ron883 said:

What are the chances that we don't bring Colome back? 10%?

He’s coming back.  First off, he’s worth a 1/$10M contract even if he doesn’t have much trade value.  Second, Hahn gave up something to get him in the first place and refused to trade him at the deadline.  It would be a bad look for him to non-tender him now.

[ron883]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He’s coming back.  First off, he’s worth a 1/$10M contract even if he doesn’t have much trade value.  Second, Hahn gave up something to get him in the first place and refused to trade him at the deadline.  It would be a bad look for him to non-tender him now.

Yeah, I just looked up his stats. He was better than I remember this past season. Definitely a keeper. 

[bmags]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Sure he'll spend. He spent $40 million last year....on Colome (Yea), Herrera, Nova, Jay,  and Alonso.

On other topics:

 JBJ.  Full Season WAR:  1.4;  Adam Engel 1/2 season WAR:  .8

37 year old Cano and his .736 OPS, with a 4 year commitment?  (not to mention what the Sox will have to send to reduce that $96 million payroll liability).   What?

The Sox have scant little pitching. Stiever needs to be treated like the top prospect he is; not some trade fodder for average players.

If Adam Engel can sustain his 103 wRC+ that drive his WAR from September the he’s a very good player. Theres a reason we don’t believe you can just double his WAR

[bmags]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Sure he'll spend. He spent $40 million last year....on Colome (Yea), Herrera, Nova, Jay,  and Alonso.

On other topics:

 JBJ.  Full Season WAR:  1.4;  Adam Engel 1/2 season WAR:  .8

37 year old Cano and his .736 OPS, with a 4 year commitment?  (not to mention what the Sox will have to send to reduce that $96 million payroll liability).   What?

The Sox have scant little pitching. Stiever needs to be treated like the top prospect he is; not some trade fodder for average players.

If Adam Engel can sustain his 103 wRC+ that drive his WAR from September the he’s a very good player. Theres a reason we don’t believe you can just double his WAR.

[Colinski]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

That’s why RF would be good move for him. We aren’t talking about a long term fixture. Everyone here has a favorite average player they want as a fill in for RF this year. JBJ would be relatively cheap, has upside, he bats left, he walks 10% of the time and had a worse year for contact but I think his profile does show 90 wRC+ as a stable production with possibility of a nice year for better babip luck.

hes also a good vet, smart and would be nice to have as a mentor in the outfield.

for $10 mill for a year? I’ll take it while we make sure we get plus bats elsewhere.

id rather get two 130 wRC+ bats and a 90 wRC bat then three 110 wRC + bats.

This plus it would allow us to shade left and cover Eloy’s lack of range

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why can’t you see JR paying that much for Smith?  What does that even mean?

As for Nimmo, the problem they face is their OF is jam-packed and left-handed.  They will likely have to trade somebody and I think you’re giving Brodie a little too much credit.

He was great the first half...but so was Colome.   Pretty close to zero chance Reinsdorf’s going to pay to have two $10+ million closers on the roster.  If he gets a QO, he’s definitely not leaving for the Sox...and, finally, closers with a proven historical background over 5+ years of succeeding at that job are always going to be volatile acquisitions.  
 

Can we actually trust our MLB scouting, particularly coming from the pitching-friendly NL West to the AL?  Seems like a classic overpay possibility.

 

 

The San Francisco Giants lone All-Star representative this season, closer Will Smith emerged as one of baseball’s most dominant bullpen arms during the first half.

The 30-year-old 23-for-23 on save chances before the All-Star break, posting a brilliant 1.98 ERA and 0.80 WHIP.

His numbers were far more ordinary after the break with a 3.72 ERA and 11 saves in 15 chances, but it was nonetheless an extremely successful season for the southpaw.

Unless Aroldis Chapman decides to opt-out of his contract with the New York Yankees, Smith stands to be the best late-inning arm on the market this winter, along with Houston Astros setup man Will Harris.

Will the Giants front office extend him a qualifying offer?

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

He was great the first half...but so was Colome.   Pretty close to zero chance Reinsdorf’s going to pay to have two $10+ million closers on the roster.  If he gets a QO, he’s definitely not leaving for the Sox...and, finally, closers with a proven historical background over 5+ years of succeeding at that job are always going to be volatile acquisitions.  
 

Can we actually trust our MLB scouting, particularly coming from the pitching-friendly NL West to the AL?  Seems like a classic overpay possibility.

 

 

The San Francisco Giants lone All-Star representative this season, closer Will Smith emerged as one of baseball’s most dominant bullpen arms during the first half.

The 30-year-old 23-for-23 on save chances before the All-Star break, posting a brilliant 1.98 ERA and 0.80 WHIP.

His numbers were far more ordinary after the break with a 3.72 ERA and 11 saves in 15 chances, but it was nonetheless an extremely successful season for the southpaw.

Unless Aroldis Chapman decides to opt-out of his contract with the New York Yankees, Smith stands to be the best late-inning arm on the market this winter, along with Houston Astros setup man Will Harris.

Will the Giants front office extend him a qualifying offer?

Herrera will make $10M next year, so are you suggesting Reinsdorf will force Hahn to trade him or Colome cause it’s against Jerry’s unwritten policy to not have multiple $10M+ relievers on a team?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

Yeah, I just looked up his stats. He was better than I remember this past season. Definitely a keeper. 

Better than you remember ? Do you watch the Sox at all ? What did he have 30 saves and 2/3 blown saves ? That a great percentage. WHIP close to 1  which is also great.

I know that other stats don't show him as a great reliever in the  way some would like but sometimes you just have to trust that regular stats paint a realistic picture of his abilities. In a time where many BP arms go south on an every other year basis he's been very consistently good  4 of the last 5 years.

He got the job done and much of the time that all that matters. Too many times some posters get caught up in the minutiae and while that can be beneficial it can also make you trust too much whats on paper and not enough in results or potential such as with very young players.

[SCCWS]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

That’s why RF would be good move for him. We aren’t talking about a long term fixture. Everyone here has a favorite average player they want as a fill in for RF this year. JBJ would be relatively cheap, has upside, he bats left, he walks 10% of the time and had a worse year for contact but I think his profile does show 90 wRC+ as a stable production with possibility of a nice year for better babip luck.

hes also a good vet, smart and would be nice to have as a mentor in the outfield.

for $10 mill for a year? I’ll take it while we make sure we get plus bats elsewhere.

id rather get two 130 wRC+ bats and a 90 wRC bat then three 110 wRC + bats.

Remember Bradley's defense is why Betts still plays RF. Fenway with all it's weird angles is a very difficult CF.  So if he was added then the Sox can decide whether to start Roberts in CF or play him in RF to start and let Bradley favor Eloy's side while Roberts gets adjusted.  

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Remember Bradley's defense is why Betts still plays RF. Fenway with all it's weird angles is a very difficult CF.  So if he was added then the Sox can decide whether to start Roberts in CF or play him in RF to start and let Bradley favor Eloy's side while Roberts gets adjusted.  

Also having 2 starting CFs in one lineup means you dont need to carry a guy who can play CF on the bench. You can stash more of a power, corner type bat.

[bmags]

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

He was great the first half...but so was Colome.   Pretty close to zero chance Reinsdorf’s going to pay to have two $10+ million closers on the roster.  If he gets a QO, he’s definitely not leaving for the Sox...and, finally, closers with a proven historical background over 5+ years of succeeding at that job are always going to be volatile acquisitions.  
 

Can we actually trust our MLB scouting, particularly coming from the pitching-friendly NL West to the AL?  Seems like a classic overpay possibility.

 

 

The San Francisco Giants lone All-Star representative this season, closer Will Smith emerged as one of baseball’s most dominant bullpen arms during the first half.

The 30-year-old 23-for-23 on save chances before the All-Star break, posting a brilliant 1.98 ERA and 0.80 WHIP.

His numbers were far more ordinary after the break with a 3.72 ERA and 11 saves in 15 chances, but it was nonetheless an extremely successful season for the southpaw.

Unless Aroldis Chapman decides to opt-out of his contract with the New York Yankees, Smith stands to be the best late-inning arm on the market this winter, along with Houston Astros setup man Will Harris.

Will the Giants front office extend him a qualifying offer?

stop. excerpting. without. linking.

[ron883]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Better than you remember ? Do you watch the Sox at all ? What did he have 30 saves and 2/3 blown saves ? That a great percentage. WHIP close to 1  which is also great.

I know that other stats don't show him as a great reliever in the  way some would like but sometimes you just have to trust that regular stats paint a realistic picture of his abilities. In a time where many BP arms go south on an every other year basis he's been very consistently good  4 of the last 5 years.

He got the job done and much of the time that all that matters. Too many times some posters get caught up in the minutiae and while that can be beneficial it can also make you trust too much whats on paper and not enough in results or potential such as with very young players.

You act like he is some sort of godlike closer. He wasn't. He was a decent closer. 

[caulfield12]

31 minutes ago, bmags said:

stop. excerpting. without. linking.

Fine, the White Sox don’t buy closers at peak value.

Robertson should have taught them that lesson...and even that was an aberration from there normal modus operandi.  Not to mention it would be an acknowledgement of the draft strategy the past 3-4 years of taking collegiate relievers being a failure.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, bmags said:

That’s why RF would be good move for him. We aren’t talking about a long term fixture. Everyone here has a favorite average player they want as a fill in for RF this year. JBJ would be relatively cheap, has upside, he bats left, he walks 10% of the time and had a worse year for contact but I think his profile does show 90 wRC+ as a stable production with possibility of a nice year for better babip luck.

hes also a good vet, smart and would be nice to have as a mentor in the outfield.

for $10 mill for a year? I’ll take it while we make sure we get plus bats elsewhere.

id rather get two 130 wRC+ bats and a 90 wRC bat then three 110 wRC + bats.

Let me preface this by saying I think you are one of the best posters on this website. You seem to be thinking Boston is a good trade partner because they are cap conscious. I even understand liking JBJ. I wanted him when he was much younger and for 1 year he would be great. My problem is why do u keep wanting to trade away assets for 1 year players ? It's not the time . The Sox are rising there is still much the Sox have to wait on.

Will Moncada maintain , fall, or get even better? Same with Anderson

Will Eloy become our version of JDM ?

How fast will Lopez ,Cease, Kopech .Dunning become good or will they at all ?

Is Gio a legit top of the rotation guy ?

Can Collins become  the LH power/OBP bat and be a good enough catcher to stick ?

Can some of the minor league OF's show enough growth to be counted on for future use ?

Will Vaughn rise quickly ? He would have to show a lot in AA this year to even consider him next year and AA is typically not a good place for our talent to take a step forward.

How long will Abreu be here and for how much money ? Will he be the primary DH ? Is Eloy the future DH ?

Will a guy like Mercedes even get a chance to prove he can be a legit hitter in the majors. Basically he's the only non top draft pick I'd want to see since guys like Sanchez, Leury and Engel Palka Cordell etc have been given chances.

 I'd really like to see DH handled internally given that we will probably still have Abreu . I really wonder if the Sox have shopped him around at all or are all the rumors about him being here to stay really true.

In my mind still way to many questions than answers in the lineup but more so among the starting pitching.

That's why getting starting pitching is so important . If the young starting pitching can improve quickly maybe anyone we pick up as a FA can be traded for assets instead of dealing from our quickly diminishing minor league talent now. Make pitching the priority and deal with position players afterwards. I'm much more optimistic about the hitting getting better and having Robert and Madrigal in the lineup than I am with pitchers finding command . There are just too many of them that will need time.

If the Sox can get some good FA starting pitching I'd feel much more comfortable making trades.

Edited October 12, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

56 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You act like he is some sort of godlike closer. He wasn't. He was a decent closer. 

There aren't many godlike closers and he isn't one of them due to his K rate. I said he got the job done . If you somehow misconstrue that to mean godlike that's on u. I was just saying he was very good.

11 pitchers in the majors had 30+ saves.Colome was 2nd highest in Save percentage. That's getting the job done at the 2nd best rate in the majors among the top 11 in number of saves. His k/9 was the lowest of the 11. His BA of players facing him was .191 that's 5th among those 11. WHIP 1.07  6th among those guys.

Of course there are some guys you might prefer that had less than 30 saves like Ken Giles or Shane Greene.

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Fine, the White Sox don’t buy closers at peak value.

Robertson should have taught them that lesson...and even that was an aberration from there normal modus operandi.  Not to mention it would be an acknowledgement of the draft strategy the past 3-4 years of taking collegiate relievers being a failure.

You’re literally contradicting yourself in consecutive sentences.  They don’t buy closers at peak value but they did with Robertson which should have taught them that they don’t buy closers at peak value.  My god it’s like reading a circular reference.

And what’s this draft strategy you’re referring to?  We took Burdi in the first round back in 2016.  How many relievers have we drafted in the top five rounds since then that have been exclusively used as relievers?  We used a fifth round pick on Tyler Johnson and that’s it man.  Sometimes I don’t know where you come up with this stuff.

[TheFutureIsNear]

6 hours ago, black jack said:

This is why we need a dislike emoji.

What do you think it would take to get Marte?

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There aren't many godlike closers and he isn't one of them due to his K rate. I said he got the job done . If you somehow misconstrue that to mean godlike that's on u. I was just saying he was very good.

11 pitchers in the majors had 30+ saves.Colome was 2nd highest in Save percentage. That's getting the job done at the 2nd best rate in the majors among the top 11 in number of saves. His k/9 was the lowest of the 11. His BA of players facing him was .191 that's 5th among those 11. WHIP 1.07  6th among those guys.

Of course there are some guys you might prefer that had less than 30 saves like Ken Giles or Shane Greene.

He no doubt got the job done last year, the question is will he be able to next year.  The fact his K rate is declining makes it much harder to be overly optimistic about him going forward.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

What do you think it would take to get Marte?

I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I’m guessing any two of those pieces would be more than fair value.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He no doubt got the job done last year, the question is will he be able to next year.  The fact his K rate is declining makes it much harder to be overly optimistic about him going forward.

Maybe so but he is among  the least of our worries. He does have a track record and isn't old. It's a lot harder to be pessimistic about him also.

[Black_Jack29]

8 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I get why people will overrate Lopez and Collins, but I say trade them while they have value...because I don’t think they’ll have much in 2 years 

Lopez is dirt-cheap and is under team control for the next three or so years. He's inconsistent as hell, but he's also young and has shown flashes of dominance. That's exactly the type of pitcher the Sox need to anchor the back of the rotation while they spend on a couple of established veterans to fill out the rotation.

I don't know what to expect out of Collins going forward, but I doubt that McCann is going to put up a .789 OPS next season.

 

[TheFutureIsNear]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I’m guessing any two of those pieces would be more than fair value.

You could be correct, I’m not claiming to have any inside knowledge or anything...but that sounds way light to me. 2 years 24M for a 3+ WAR OF’er can be had without a top 100 prospect?