A Realistic Offseason

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, scs787 said:

As I lay here sick in bed I randomly decided to look up the splits of all these LHH RFers that have been discussed as suiters.....They have all been terrible here in Chicago. Is that something that should even be looked at? Is that maybe why a lot of the LH hitters the Sox have brought in have not been all that great outside of elite guys like Thome and Moncada?

How many of them had to face off against Chris Sale and Jose Quintana as part of those stats? 

[caulfield12]

Jim Thome managed to do pretty well until they foolishly let him go to the Twins...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, Lillian said:

You're right. Pederson is also terrible against LH pitching, and should probably be platooned, as well. I'm sorry, but Gardner just doesn't inspire me, because he doesn't have the power to hit in the heart of the order. I don't trust last year's home run totals, which could be an outlier.

I was vacillating between Gardner and Corey Dickerson. Both haven't played much RF at all so if that's a problem for just one year I understand. I don't really consider it a big deal. Dickerson won a GG in LF in 2018 , doesn't have a weak arm and is a hell of a hitter when not injured. Just look at his stats in 2019 in his limited AB's High BA, Slugging and OPS. I've been doing a lot of research on him and he's become a really good hitter the last 2 years by choking up and cutting down on the K's and making more contact. As he's progressed with the new style he's worked the power back into his game also and is capable of 20-25 HR's in a full season . I think he's way under rated much like Lemahieu was last year.

He also isn't a liability against lefties like Gardner, Calhoun and Pederson. If you add Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and Luis Robert that could be an extra 100 HR's the Sox didn't have last year and 3 of those 4 are left handed. Along with the power of Moncada, Abreu and Eloy that's a real lot of power along with some OBP from Grandal and while Dickerson doesn't walk too much that high BA will put him on base and as a contact hitter along with Madrigal eventually you could have an ideal 2 hitter in Dickerson and 9 hitter in Madrigal.

I'm not worried about Moustaskas getting AB's since there will be plenty to go around between 3rd when Moncada misses games  at 3rd and if Madrigal doesn't come up for a month then plenty at 2nd too. As primarily a 3rd baseman he could also play many games at 1st without much trouble. Also between Grandal , Moose, Abreu and the rest of the power hitters you have DH pretty well covered while keeping players fresh and having more power off the bench for those late inning HR heroics that we didn't have last year . The best part is Moose and Dickerson shoudn't cost the Sox all that much in AAV maybe $25M a year at most . I think Dickerson can be had easily with a 1 yr, base salary around $8-10M but with incentives based of AB's and performance make another $5M if he remains uninjured and productive . Moose is also pretty good against lefties so between him and Dickerson neither one has to be taken out of the lineup.

I wish I could figure out a way to work Collins into getting a lot of AB's without removing Grandal but with his catching skills and hitting ability still a question there's vast difference between him and Grandal. However if the Sox are successful at getting starting pitcher adding Moose and Dickerson as the bats might not seem good enough for some people but it would be if Collins can add the OBP and power we lose in not signing Grandal. Guess we'll just have to trust that between Eloy , Moncada, Abreu, Anderson ,  Robert , Madrigal, Moose and Dickerson that its a good enough lineup to give Collins more of an opportunity . I think that lineup is pretty good, versatile and even better if Collins can step up. It's certainly much better than last years lineup. , more balanced ,more power , no black holes against left handers or right handers. Maybe Collins against lefties isn't the best but I'd be thrilled to see him mash righties. Imagine Eloy, Mocada and Robert all ending up great hitters. That lineup is sweet if that can happen sooner rather than later. I truly believe Moncada and Eloy will be hitting superstars next year .

Edited November 2, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

Wheeler, Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and a bullpen arm...

OR

We roll the dice on Collins (removing the Grandal signing) and add another backend starting pitcher in Feb/March as well as someone that fits the Gennett/Schoop/Kendrick/Dozier profile...30-something player on a one year deal or one and an option year.  

We need more established veteran leadership with playoff experience IMO.

Of course, that’s probably $60-70 million worth of new contracts for 2020...roughly doubling what most are expecting.

Other than Wheeler though, none would be longer than two year deals....Grandal, maybe, would be 3-4 but I have a feeling they roll the dice with McCann and Collins instead.

[tray]

Sox and Cub fans seem to have a different opinion about Castellanos and the degree that they would like  to see him play RF in 2020  for their respective team. .  

I'd be happy with Castellanos  on the South side . Admittedly, I don't care that much about getting a LH hitter for RF.  I'd rather have a good RH hitter than a shiddy LH hitter as long as the defense was not that much of a liability.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by tray
spelling

[BackDoorBreach]

58 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was vacillating between Gardner and Corey Dickerson. Both haven't played much RF at all so if that's a problem for just one year I understand. I don't really consider it a big deal. Dickerson won a GG in LF in 2018 , doesn't have a weak arm and is a hell of a hitter when not injured. Just look at his stats in 2019 in his limited AB's High BA, Slugging and OPS. I've been doing a lot of research on him and he's become a really good hitter the last 2 years by choking up and cutting down on the K's and making more contact. As he's progressed with the new style he's worked the power back into his game also and is capable of 20-25 HR's in a full season . I think he's way under rated much like Lemahieu was last year.

He also isn't a liability against lefties like Gardner, Calhoun and Pederson. If you add Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and Luis Robert that could be an extra 100 HR's the Sox didn't have last year and 3 of those 4 are left handed. Along with the power of Moncada, Abreu and Eloy that's a real lot of power along with some OBP from Grandal and while Dickerson doesn't walk too much that high BA will put him on base and as a contact hitter along with Madrigal eventually you could have an ideal 2 hitter in Dickerson and 9 hitter in Madrigal.

I'm not worried about Moustaskas getting AB's since there will be plenty to go around between 3rd when Moncada misses games  at 3rd and if Madrigal doesn't come up for a month then plenty at 2nd too. As primarily a 3rd baseman he could also play many games at 1st without much trouble. Also between Grandal , Moose, Abreu and the rest of the power hitters you have DH pretty well covered while keeping players fresh and having more power off the bench for those late inning HR heroics that we didn't have last year . The best part is Moose and Dickerson shoudn't cost the Sox all that much in AAV maybe $25M a year at most . I think Dickerson can be had easily with a 1 yr, base salary around $8-10M but with incentives based of AB's and performance make another $5M if he remains uninjured and productive . Moose is also pretty good against lefties so between him and Dickerson neither one has to be taken out of the lineup.

I wish I could figure out a way to work Collins into getting a lot of AB's without removing Grandal but with his catching skills and hitting ability still a question there's vast difference between him and Grandal. However if the Sox are successful at getting starting pitcher adding Moose and Dickerson as the bats might not seem good enough for some people but it would be if Collins can add the OBP and power we lose in not signing Grandal. Guess we'll just have to trust that between Eloy , Moncada, Abreu, Anderson ,  Robert , Madrigal, Moose and Dickerson that its a good enough lineup to give Collins more of an opportunity . I think that lineup is pretty good, versatile and even better if Collins can step up. It's certainly much better than last years lineup. , more balanced ,more power , no black holes against left handers or right handers. Maybe Collins against lefties isn't the best but I'd be thrilled to see him mash righties. Imagine Eloy, Mocada and Robert all ending up great hitters. That lineup is sweet if that can happen sooner rather than later. I truly believe Moncada and Eloy will be hitting superstars next year .

I know you are 100% Moose but I don't see how he gets AB's to justify signing him.  You are counting on Moncada to be hurt to justify this, while also forgetting Dickerson who you also want to sign, is hurt more than Moncada.

Yo played 132 games this last year and 140 something in 2018.  Madrigal will be up within a month of 2020.  Moose doesn't play a positional need at all.  It's really easy to say "Well he can just play 1B", despite having 4 starts there his entire career which was 3 or 4 years ago.  So, you're saying you want Moose to be our every day 1B then, right?  Because that's the only way he makes sense.  But you also wan't Grandal who will play first.  And Abreu plays first.  And Collins plays first.  I just don't see how that ever works.

[Lillian]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was vacillating between Gardner and Corey Dickerson. Both haven't played much RF at all so if that's a problem for just one year I understand. I don't really consider it a big deal. Dickerson won a GG in LF in 2018 , doesn't have a weak arm and is a hell of a hitter when not injured. Just look at his stats in 2019 in his limited AB's High BA, Slugging and OPS. I've been doing a lot of research on him and he's become a really good hitter the last 2 years by choking up and cutting down on the K's and making more contact. As he's progressed with the new style he's worked the power back into his game also and is capable of 20-25 HR's in a full season . I think he's way under rated much like Lemahieu was last year.

He also isn't a liability against lefties like Gardner, Calhoun and Pederson. If you add Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and Luis Robert that could be an extra 100 HR's the Sox didn't have last year and 3 of those 4 are left handed. Along with the power of Moncada, Abreu and Eloy that's a real lot of power along with some OBP from Grandal and while Dickerson doesn't walk too much that high BA will put him on base and as a contact hitter along with Madrigal eventually you could have an ideal 2 hitter in Dickerson and 9 hitter in Madrigal.

I'm not worried about Moustaskas getting AB's since there will be plenty to go around between 3rd when Moncada misses games  at 3rd and if Madrigal doesn't come up for a month then plenty at 2nd too. As primarily a 3rd baseman he could also play many games at 1st without much trouble. Also between Grandal , Moose, Abreu and the rest of the power hitters you have DH pretty well covered while keeping players fresh and having more power off the bench for those late inning HR heroics that we didn't have last year . The best part is Moose and Dickerson shoudn't cost the Sox all that much in AAV maybe $25M a year at most . I think Dickerson can be had easily with a 1 yr, base salary around $8-10M but with incentives based of AB's and performance make another $5M if he remains uninjured and productive . Moose is also pretty good against lefties so between him and Dickerson neither one has to be taken out of the lineup.

I wish I could figure out a way to work Collins into getting a lot of AB's without removing Grandal but with his catching skills and hitting ability still a question there's vast difference between him and Grandal. However if the Sox are successful at getting starting pitcher adding Moose and Dickerson as the bats might not seem good enough for some people but it would be if Collins can add the OBP and power we lose in not signing Grandal. Guess we'll just have to trust that between Eloy , Moncada, Abreu, Anderson ,  Robert , Madrigal, Moose and Dickerson that its a good enough lineup to give Collins more of an opportunity . I think that lineup is pretty good, versatile and even better if Collins can step up. It's certainly much better than last years lineup. , more balanced ,more power , no black holes against left handers or right handers. Maybe Collins against lefties isn't the best but I'd be thrilled to see him mash righties. Imagine Eloy, Mocada and Robert all ending up great hitters. That lineup is sweet if that can happen sooner rather than later. I truly believe Moncada and Eloy will be hitting superstars next year .

I like that roster, for next year. The concern is that Moustakas will require a multiyear contract and, in 2021, with Vaughn at first and Abreu at DH, where would Moose fit? I suppose they could always try to trade him, providing the contract is reasonable. In any case, your suggestion is well thought out and would represent a significant improvement over last year's team.

[pcq]

18 hours ago, Lillian said:

As much as I would love J. D. Martinez's bat, it's hard to see how he fits, beyond 2020, if they resign Abreu. Vaughn will be at first base, by 2021 and Abreu is the DH. With the imminent arrival of 3 young impact players, Robert, Madrigal and Vaughn, it would seem prudent to exercise a little patience, until the Sox can better determine what they will need, in 2021. Nevertheless, they do need a LH presence, in the heavily  weighted RH lineup. 

 

One question is; Would Grandal represent a defensive upgrade, at first base, over Abreu? If so, I like giving him playing time at first and sharing the catching with McCann and Collins, in 2020. If Collins establishes himself, then it would not be necessary to resign McCann, as Collins and Grandal could share the catching duties in 2021, once Vaughn arrives.

 

Right field is an issue, but not without several potential organizational solutions, starting in 2021. 4 of our top prospects are all candidates to fill the hole in RF and 3 of them bat left handed. If neither Adolfo, Rutherford, Basabe or Walker demonstrate their ability to take that roster spot, then perhaps Mookie Betts could be the answer. If Boston doesn't extend him, he will be a free agent, following this season. He might be worth waiting for, while keeping some financial flexibility for such a move. I certainly prefer him, over JDM, because of his age and ability to play defense. 

 

There is also the possibility of a trade for Joc Pederson, or signing Dickerson, or Calhoun. Pederson is my favorite, of the 3, because he is a genuine middle of the order, left handed power bat, especially against RH pitching. The fact that he would come with just one more year of control is not really a negative, as that would buy time to see if one of our prospects emerges as a viable right field option. The front office would not have to make a big financial commitment, even though he is arbitration eligible, for this year. If he could be acquired, without giving up any key, core players, he would be my choice. Over the last 3 years, Calhoun has been awful against LH pitching, and therefore is really a platoon candidate. The question with Dickerson is whether, or not, he has the arm to play RF. 

 

While I don't expect it to happen, my real preference would be to trade for Pederson and sign Grandal. Pederson would hold down RF for one year, while Grandal and Collins split time between catcher and first base. Abreu becomes the full time DH, while providing depth at first base, in case of an injury. 

 

2020

2B Madrigal

SS Anderson

LF  Eloy

3B  Moncada LH

DH  Abreu

RF  Pederson LH

CF  Robert (eventually bats much higher in the order)

1B  Grandal LH/Collins LH

C   McCann/Grandal LH/Collins LH

 

2021 Once Vaughn arrives, Grandal moves to primary catcher and, if Collins establishes himself as a Major League catcher, McCann is not resigned:

 

2B Madrigal

SS Anderson

LF  Eloy

3B  Moncada LH

CF  Robert

DH  Abreu

C    Grandal/Collins LH

RF  Adolfo/Rutherford/Basabe/Walker or Free Agent, hopefully Mookie Betts, who would bat in the heart of the order.

1B  Vaughn (like Robert, moves up in the order, once established)

 

Adding just Pederson and Grandal would leave lots of money to spend on pitching, while perhaps locking up Moncada, Giolito and Robert, with extensions. As for the pitching, I'd like 2 starters, a #1, or 2 and a #4, or 5. One more back end of the bullpen reliever should also be on the wish list.

Good stuff but I would  not arrange plans around a first year player. Ideally they force you to pay attention and now you have some expendable veteran talent. I do not see a #1 SP riding the Red Line every fifth day. 

[Chicago White Sox]

I’ve looked into Moose a lot and just don’t like the fit.  First & foremost, he’s a low OBP player and doesn’t address our #1 priority.  Second, he’s simply not a good enough hitter to be our primary DH.  Yes, the defensive flexibility is nice, but ultimately I’d rather roll the dice on Scooter Gennett as a bench piece than commit to a multi-year deal with Moose.

[Capital G]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was vacillating between Gardner and Corey Dickerson. Both haven't played much RF at all so if that's a problem for just one year I understand. I don't really consider it a big deal. Dickerson won a GG in LF in 2018 , doesn't have a weak arm and is a hell of a hitter when not injured. Just look at his stats in 2019 in his limited AB's High BA, Slugging and OPS. I've been doing a lot of research on him and he's become a really good hitter the last 2 years by choking up and cutting down on the K's and making more contact. As he's progressed with the new style he's worked the power back into his game also and is capable of 20-25 HR's in a full season . I think he's way under rated much like Lemahieu was last year.

He also isn't a liability against lefties like Gardner, Calhoun and Pederson. If you add Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and Luis Robert that could be an extra 100 HR's the Sox didn't have last year and 3 of those 4 are left handed. Along with the power of Moncada, Abreu and Eloy that's a real lot of power along with some OBP from Grandal and while Dickerson doesn't walk too much that high BA will put him on base and as a contact hitter along with Madrigal eventually you could have an ideal 2 hitter in Dickerson and 9 hitter in Madrigal.

I'm not worried about Moustaskas getting AB's since there will be plenty to go around between 3rd when Moncada misses games  at 3rd and if Madrigal doesn't come up for a month then plenty at 2nd too. As primarily a 3rd baseman he could also play many games at 1st without much trouble. Also between Grandal , Moose, Abreu and the rest of the power hitters you have DH pretty well covered while keeping players fresh and having more power off the bench for those late inning HR heroics that we didn't have last year . The best part is Moose and Dickerson shoudn't cost the Sox all that much in AAV maybe $25M a year at most . I think Dickerson can be had easily with a 1 yr, base salary around $8-10M but with incentives based of AB's and performance make another $5M if he remains uninjured and productive . Moose is also pretty good against lefties so between him and Dickerson neither one has to be taken out of the lineup.

I wish I could figure out a way to work Collins into getting a lot of AB's without removing Grandal but with his catching skills and hitting ability still a question there's vast difference between him and Grandal. However if the Sox are successful at getting starting pitcher adding Moose and Dickerson as the bats might not seem good enough for some people but it would be if Collins can add the OBP and power we lose in not signing Grandal. Guess we'll just have to trust that between Eloy , Moncada, Abreu, Anderson ,  Robert , Madrigal, Moose and Dickerson that its a good enough lineup to give Collins more of an opportunity . I think that lineup is pretty good, versatile and even better if Collins can step up. It's certainly much better than last years lineup. , more balanced ,more power , no black holes against left handers or right handers. Maybe Collins against lefties isn't the best but I'd be thrilled to see him mash righties. Imagine Eloy, Mocada and Robert all ending up great hitters. That lineup is sweet if that can happen sooner rather than later. I truly believe Moncada and Eloy will be hitting superstars next year .

I would be excited with Grandal, Dickerson, and Moose as our bats. Land Wheeler and a RP or 2 and I'd call this a great off-season.

[SoxBlanco]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I was vacillating between Gardner and Corey Dickerson. Both haven't played much RF at all so if that's a problem for just one year I understand. I don't really consider it a big deal. Dickerson won a GG in LF in 2018 , doesn't have a weak arm and is a hell of a hitter when not injured. Just look at his stats in 2019 in his limited AB's High BA, Slugging and OPS. I've been doing a lot of research on him and he's become a really good hitter the last 2 years by choking up and cutting down on the K's and making more contact. As he's progressed with the new style he's worked the power back into his game also and is capable of 20-25 HR's in a full season . I think he's way under rated much like Lemahieu was last year.

He also isn't a liability against lefties like Gardner, Calhoun and Pederson. If you add Grandal, Moustakas, Dickerson and Luis Robert that could be an extra 100 HR's the Sox didn't have last year and 3 of those 4 are left handed. Along with the power of Moncada, Abreu and Eloy that's a real lot of power along with some OBP from Grandal and while Dickerson doesn't walk too much that high BA will put him on base and as a contact hitter along with Madrigal eventually you could have an ideal 2 hitter in Dickerson and 9 hitter in Madrigal.

I'm not worried about Moustaskas getting AB's since there will be plenty to go around between 3rd when Moncada misses games  at 3rd and if Madrigal doesn't come up for a month then plenty at 2nd too. As primarily a 3rd baseman he could also play many games at 1st without much trouble. Also between Grandal , Moose, Abreu and the rest of the power hitters you have DH pretty well covered while keeping players fresh and having more power off the bench for those late inning HR heroics that we didn't have last year . The best part is Moose and Dickerson shoudn't cost the Sox all that much in AAV maybe $25M a year at most . I think Dickerson can be had easily with a 1 yr, base salary around $8-10M but with incentives based of AB's and performance make another $5M if he remains uninjured and productive . Moose is also pretty good against lefties so between him and Dickerson neither one has to be taken out of the lineup.

I wish I could figure out a way to work Collins into getting a lot of AB's without removing Grandal but with his catching skills and hitting ability still a question there's vast difference between him and Grandal. However if the Sox are successful at getting starting pitcher adding Moose and Dickerson as the bats might not seem good enough for some people but it would be if Collins can add the OBP and power we lose in not signing Grandal. Guess we'll just have to trust that between Eloy , Moncada, Abreu, Anderson ,  Robert , Madrigal, Moose and Dickerson that its a good enough lineup to give Collins more of an opportunity . I think that lineup is pretty good, versatile and even better if Collins can step up. It's certainly much better than last years lineup. , more balanced ,more power , no black holes against left handers or right handers. Maybe Collins against lefties isn't the best but I'd be thrilled to see him mash righties. Imagine Eloy, Mocada and Robert all ending up great hitters. That lineup is sweet if that can happen sooner rather than later. I truly believe Moncada and Eloy will be hitting superstars next year .

You’ve sold me on Dickerson. Can we get him on a one year deal?

[caulfield12]

Dickerson has zero reason to sign a multi-year deal unless there are tons of incentives to push the option year into the $10-12 million range...because nobody is going to be willing to guarantee him more than $7-9 million coming off an injury-plagued season like he just had.

[Flash]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, if the majority of the White Sox fanbase doesn’t even trust Collins to get regular at-bats on a rebuilding team, I’m not sure why one of the top 3-5 World Series contenders would.

Unless our player development and/or talent assessment since the original Hostetler draft selection is THAT bad.

Then exchange Collins with someone the Yankees will accept. The idea is to land Tauchman and put him in RF for the next 4 years instead of seeking 1 yr. placeholders in the belief that one of our youngsters will emerge. Taking on the 1yr remainder of Happs contract as the price of poker is not the worst thing in the world since he will likely be a 4-5 starter and toss 150 + innings.

[SoxBlanco]

2 minutes ago, Flash said:

Then exchange Collins with someone the Yankees will accept. The idea is to land Tauchman and put him in RF for the next 4 years instead of seeking 1 yr. placeholders in the belief that one of our youngsters will emerge. Taking on the 1yr remainder of Happs contract as the price of poker is not the worst thing in the world since he will likely be a 4-5 starter and toss 150 + innings.

The idea of one year placeholders is not just because of the belief that one of our OF prospects will emerge. It would certainly be great if one of them emerged, but if not, then you sign or trade for somebody next offseason. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I know you are 100% Moose but I don't see how he gets AB's to justify signing him.  You are counting on Moncada to be hurt to justify this, while also forgetting Dickerson who you also want to sign, is hurt more than Moncada.

Yo played 132 games this last year and 140 something in 2018.  Madrigal will be up within a month of 2020.  Moose doesn't play a positional need at all.  It's really easy to say "Well he can just play 1B", despite having 4 starts there his entire career which was 3 or 4 years ago.  So, you're saying you want Moose to be our every day 1B then, right?  Because that's the only way he makes sense.  But you also wan't Grandal who will play first.  And Abreu plays first.  And Collins plays first.  I just don't see how that ever works.

I'm not counting on Moncada being hurt but many here consider him soft.  I just think between all the positions he can play there's just no doubt he would fit. Injuries happen we know that and when you can play 1st, 2nd and 3rd that's one hell of a backup for 3 positions especially when you consider it was Sanchez playing a lot of 2nd and 3rd last year  . 1st base isn't so hard to learn for a career 3rd baseman so lets not pretend it's like playing SS. When Abreu wasn't playing 1st are you forgetting all the AB's Yonder Alonso got or the immortal AJ Reed ? Maybe you forget all the crap we had at DH I sure don't. How is Moose getting AB's there not much better ? Can you really say with 100% certainty that Madrigal will be entrenched at 2nd base all season after he is brought up or when exactly he will be brought up ?

Someone can say he's not a good OBP guy but you can point out flaws in any player If he was so great in every area I wouldn't be saying how much of a bargain he was. But just to counter that argument he drew  career high in walks last year. I just get amazed when people don't think he's a fit when the Sox lineup was one black hole after another at with terrible hitters backing up 1st and 3rd and starting at 2nd base and DH . There's nothing wrong in stocking the lineup with HR hitters like the Twins did . Last year we would have loved him instead of all the crud we had at 1st ,2nd DH and to play 3rd when Moncada went down . Those 35 HR's .516 Slg, and .845 OPS last year would've helped too. I'm not building a World Champ here. I don't think anyone here can unless they have a crystal ball. Lets not get paralysis by analysis here.

I've addressed a lot of different areas with just 2 relatively inexpensive pieces to the lineup leaving a lot of money to be spent on pitching which is still the No. 1 priority. He might take 3 years to sign but if anyone is worried he'd block someone that's really silly to care about. If you are so good to be blocking someone who cares ? There are always areas that need improvement and positions of strength to make trade from. Even without Grandal it's a vast improvement over last year and even better when Eloy becomes our JDM . It's time to really start believing in the guys we have already and the one who is coming who can be the best of them all WAR wise and potentially as a hitter too which is saying a lot when you have Moncada and Eloy.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve looked into Moose a lot and just don’t like the fit.  First & foremost, he’s a low OBP player and doesn’t address our #1 priority.  Second, he’s simply not a good enough hitter to be our primary DH.  Yes, the defensive flexibility is nice, but ultimately I’d rather roll the dice on Scooter Gennett as a bench piece than commit to a multi-year deal with Moose.

Some defenses:

- while not a high OBP player, he also doesn’t K, so still a nice alternative.

- He did increase his BB% to 9% last year, though I just have a hard time believing that’s gonna stick.

I do like the idea of a 2b that starts season there, while a Collins is allowed chance to win DH duties. Then when Madrigal moves in, they can replace Collins, or become a super sub. 
 

This fits for Kendrick too. 
 

This is acceptable to me if RF is legit upgraded and the majority of funds are spent on significant pitching upgrades.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’ve looked into Moose a lot and just don’t like the fit.  First & foremost, he’s a low OBP player and doesn’t address our #1 priority.  Second, he’s simply not a good enough hitter to be our primary DH.  Yes, the defensive flexibility is nice, but ultimately I’d rather roll the dice on Scooter Gennett as a bench piece than commit to a multi-year deal with Moose.

You think OBP is our #1 priority ? Really? Yea its up there but surely it's pitching and power . You don't think .845 OPS is good enough to play DH ? Again sorry , really ? Maybe you better start remembering how many AB's were given to ALonso and AJ Reed Palka etc who occupied DH last year. Here you have one of the most consistent power hitting guys who can hit both righties and lefties fill in at 3 positions in the field, a huge hedge against injuries and under performance and he's not a fit ?

[BamaDoc]

Thanks for finding all the info on Dickerson.  Definitely interesting.  Three different injuries last year with the season ending one being his foot.  Obviously that would really have to be checked out.  The Red Sox put all kind of contract parameters around JDM previous injury.  Dickerson will be a really interesting contract.  He could take a one year gamble contract but everybody looking for a non qualifying offer corner outfielder will be  looking at him.  I could see him getting a solid multi year deal just as easily.  If his foot checks out you have definitely made me want to kick the tires.  At 31 next year and injury history, I bet he takes the multi year deal.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

53 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

You’ve sold me on Dickerson. Can we get him on a one year deal?

I think it's possible because he was injured a lot last year but from June to Sept he was really good. Every month not much difference from the other June , July and August. Very consistent when before he became a  more of a contact hitter, he was known to be streaky. Like I said I think he'd be agreeable to one year with a mutual option and incentives .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Thanks for finding all the info on Dickerson.  Definitely interesting.  Three different injuries last year with the season ending one being his foot.  Obviously that would really have to be checked out.  The Red Sox put all kind of contract parameters around JDM previous injury.  Dickerson will be a really interesting contract.  He could take a one year gamble contract but everybody looking for a non qualifying offer corner outfielder will be  looking at him.  I could see him getting a solid multi year deal just as easily.  If his foot checks out you have definitely made me want to kick the tires.  At 31 next year and injury history, I bet he takes the multi year deal.

Yea every free agent we go after is going to present challenges and their own set of unique circumstances and ability's. I did my best to cover a lot of different holes . There's not many perfect fits out there. I'd go so far as to say there is no such thing. Gerrit Cole is about as close as you get for the White Sox to a perfect fit but he is for every team that can afford him.

[BamaDoc]

Cali, along the same lines, do you expect Milwaukee to lose both Grandal and Moustakas?  Obviously, Grandal is my number one target back on page one but you make a compelling argument for Moose.  I think it may be hard to sell him on a multi positional role when some teams can offer full time work at one position.  If Texas doesn't get Rendon, I could see him there.

[Chicago White Sox]

32 minutes ago, bmags said:

Some defenses:

- while not a high OBP player, he also doesn’t K, so still a nice alternative.

- He did increase his BB% to 9% last year, though I just have a hard time believing that’s gonna stick.

I do like the idea of a 2b that starts season there, while a Collins is allowed chance to win DH duties. Then when Madrigal moves in, they can replace Collins, or become a super sub. 
 

This fits for Kendrick too. 
 

This is acceptable to me if RF is legit upgraded and the majority of funds are spent on significant pitching upgrades.

 

All fair points, just think he’ll require a multi-year deal and I’d rather not make that commitment to player I don’t view as an ideal fit.  On a one year deal, I’d be far more open to it because at least this year he could play a month at 2B, but even then guys like Kendrick & Gennett may be able to fill a similar role for even cheeper.

[GreenSox]

Sign players as 1 year placeholders if need be.  Trading for them is 2014-16 all over again:  sheer madness.

[GreenSox]

I've never been a Moustakas guy because of his low OBP for this organization that has long been OBP deficient.

Still he does have a good bit of versatility

[pcq]

37 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not counting on Moncada being hurt but many here consider him soft.  I just think between all the positions he can play there's just no doubt he would fit. Injuries happen we know that and when you can play 1st, 2nd and 3rd that's one hell of a backup for 3 positions especially when you consider it was Sanchez playing a lot of 2nd and 3rd last year  . 1st base isn't so hard to learn for a career 3rd baseman so lets not pretend it's like playing SS. When Abreu wasn't playing 1st are you forgetting all the AB's Yonder Alonso got or the immortal AJ Reed ? Maybe you forget all the crap we had at DH I sure don't. How is Moose getting AB's there not much better ? Can you really say with 100% certainty that Madrigal will be entrenched at 2nd base all season after he is brought up or when exactly he will be brought up ?

Someone can say he's not a good OBP guy but you can point out flaws in any player If he was so great in every area I wouldn't be saying how much of a bargain he was. But just to counter that argument he drew  career high in walks last year. I just get amazed when people don't think he's a fit when the Sox lineup was one black hole after another at with terrible hitters backing up 1st and 3rd and starting at 2nd base and DH . There's nothing wrong in stocking the lineup with HR hitters like the Twins did . Last year we would have loved him instead of all the crud we had at 1st ,2nd DH and to play 3rd when Moncada went down . Those 35 HR's .516 Slg, and .845 OPS last year would've helped too. I'm not building a World Champ here. I don't think anyone here can unless they have a crystal ball. Lets not get paralysis by analysis here.

I've addressed a lot of different areas with just 2 relatively inexpensive pieces to the lineup leaving a lot of money to be spent on pitching which is still the No. 1 priority. He might take 3 years to sign but if anyone is worried he'd block someone that's really silly to care about. If you are so good to be blocking someone who cares ? There are always areas that need improvement and positions of strength to make trade from. Even without Grandal it's a vast improvement over last year and even better when Eloy becomes our JDM . It's time to really start believing in the guys we have already and the one who is coming who can be the best of them all WAR wise and potentially as a hitter too which is saying a lot when you have Moncada and Eloy.

Count me in on the Moose train. Guys who can hit find a place to play. Guys who cannot end up in the middle of the Sox lineup. O/T The IFA analysis is a lot to digest. Hopefully the Cuban boat people talent pool will still flow our way.