ChiSox59 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, BigHurt3515 said: I am pretty pessimistic but I think a lot of Sox fans are at this point and the front office is feeling the pressure to do something this off-season after what happened last year. So I wouldn't doubt if the bigger names are off the table and Hahn and company over pay for a couple guys. Yah, I mean 99% of Sox fans are blindly pessimistic. The Sox have frankly earned it. But there are a whole bunch of obvious reasons and signs that things are changing. Feel free to ignore them if you want. The Sox are going to be very active this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, ChiSox59 said: Yah, I mean 99% of Sox fans are blindly pessimistic. The Sox have frankly earned it. But there are a whole bunch of obvious reasons and signs that things are changing. Feel free to ignore them if you want. The Sox are going to be very active this offseason. I do find it ironic that the national media was optimistic about the Sox FA prowess last off season and they whiffed... now it feels like the national media think the sox will be active but they wont attach the sox as the favorites for any of the top 8 or so FAs. I think that's actually a good thing because this team just doesn't play the favorite or market setter well. They're better off negotiating in the dark and achieving the unexpected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You also have to take into account the fact that the Sox are one of the least desirable places to play from a players perspective in baseball. Players would rather play almost anywhere else. The Sox are right there with Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati on the "worst places to play in MLB" list. I'm sure that people would rather play for the Rays or Marlins because at least it's Florida. Yeah, a city like Chicago is definitely a hard sell - LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I do find it ironic that the national media was optimistic about the Sox FA prowess last off season and they whiffed... now it feels like the national media think the sox will be active but they wont attach the sox as the favorites for any of the top 8 or so FAs. I think that's actually a good thing because this team just doesn't play the favorite or market setter well. They're better off negotiating in the dark and achieving the unexpected. It's because the Sox have never spent the money necessary to sign those guys. They were optimistic about us landing Machado because his market consisted of two teams, none of which were top teams. They were optimistic about us signing JDM this year if he opted out because we were his only chance at a big deal. Thus, we are the favorites for guys who no one important is also chasing. Which means players that will be sought after by top teams will not be on our radar in the eyes of the experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: You also have to take into account the fact that the Sox are one of the least desirable places to play from a players perspective in baseball. Players would rather play almost anywhere else. The Sox are right there with Detroit, Cleveland and Cincinnati on the "worst places to play in MLB" list. I'm sure that people would rather play for the Rays or Marlins because at least it's Florida. I'm not sure what I disagree with more, that the vast majority of players care about anything but money, or that the Chicago White Sox are less desirable than the Tampa Bay Rays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, longshot7 said: Yeah, a city like Chicago is definitely a hard sell - LOL Apparently Jack thinks players would rather play in places like St Pete and KC than Chicago. This isn't basketball. Players like whoever pay them the most; nothing more, nothing less. Manny didn't like the west coast until the west coast offered him the most money. That's how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, longshot7 said: Yeah, a city like Chicago is definitely a hard sell - LOL For the Cubs, sure. Not for the Sox. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 It's not the city, it's the organization, i.e. the Chicago Bulls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, SonofaRoache said: It's not the city, it's the organization, i.e. the Chicago Bulls. That too. The Sox have a sorted recent history of players who have had productive careers signing here and their careers just die. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Just now, SonofaRoache said: It's because the Sox have never spent the money necessary to sign those guys. They were optimistic about us landing Machado because his market consisted of two teams, none of which were top teams. They were optimistic about us signing JDM this year if he opted out because we were his only chance at a big deal. Thus, we are the favorites for guys who no one important is also chasing. Which means players that will be sought after by top teams will not be on our radar in the eyes of the experts. Enough of this two team market nonsense. Jaysus. When are people going to learn that Machado wasn't underpaid at all and it didn't matter who was involved? The Dodgers lost Greinke to the Diamondbacks. Red Sox may be losing Mookie (although I'm skeptical). Do you know why people were optimistic about the Sox and Machado? Because they thought the Sox would offer the most money; had nothing to do with team A or B not being involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: For the Cubs, sure. Not for the Sox. The only person playing for the Cubs vs the Sox would make a tangible difference to is Bryce Harper, and even then the difference is likely not much. Edited November 5, 2019 by mqr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Apparently Jack thinks players would rather play in places like St Pete and KC than Chicago. This isn't basketball. Players like whoever pay them the most; nothing more, nothing less. Manny didn't like the west coast until the west coast offered him the most money. That's how it works. He said the Sox, not Chicago itself, and he is right. The fact that we are even compared to the Rays and Royals speaks volumes. I think his point is that if money is almost equal, top players will not be picking us. We'd essentially have to force players to pick us by overpaying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: It's not the city, it's the organization, i.e. the Chicago Bulls. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz Pure nonsense. The Bulls struggle because they play basketball in winter and chicago is a tough place in winter. That paired with the taxes, and players would have to take less money to play here than say Florida; it becomes a no brainer. If the Bulls could offer more money than others they'd sign players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Yah, I mean 99% of Sox fans are blindly pessimistic. The Sox have frankly earned it. But there are a whole bunch of obvious reasons and signs that things are changing. Feel free to ignore them if you want. The Sox are going to be very active this offseason. No one is blindly pessimistic. As you said, the Sox have earned it. I don't see any reason to expect the Sox to act like a big boy franchise. It was nothing but optimism last year. Then not only did they miss, but they ran around spewing the nonsense that they thought they had the best offer, which smacked of incompetence. That does not inspire confidence. All I know to expect this offseason is the Sox trading more bonus pool money away to teams that want to build a better organization. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: I'm not sure what I disagree with more, that the vast majority of players care about anything but money, or that the Chicago White Sox are less desirable than the Tampa Bay Rays. Of course the players care about money first, but if the money is close other factors come into play. If I was a player I'd much rather play for Tampa than the Sox because I'd be more likely to get another contract after playing with the Rays. Tampa will help me maximize my talent and idk wtf the Sox are doing. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: He said the Sox, not Chicago itself, and he is right. The fact that we are even compared to the Rays and Royals speaks volumes. I think his point is that if money is almost equal, top players will not be picking us. We'd essentially have to force players to pick us by overpaying. Says who? You guys are just projecting. The Sox don't sign the best players becasue they don't offer the most money. End of story. Edited November 5, 2019 by mqr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said: He said the Sox, not Chicago itself, and he is right. The fact that we are even compared to the Rays and Royals speaks volumes. I think his point is that if money is almost equal, top players will not be picking us. We'd essentially have to force players to pick us by overpaying. Hes not right and it's a laughable claim. No one is comparing them to those teams but for you. I love when internet people decide the preferences of athletes they do not know. Agents like bigger markets more than small markets. The sox play in a top 4 market. That means more dollars. Hence why players and agents certainly dont rank Chicago lowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Enough of this two team market nonsense. Jaysus. When are people going to learn that Machado wasn't underpaid at all and it didn't matter who was involved? The Dodgers lost Greinke to the Diamondbacks. Red Sox may be losing Mookie (although I'm skeptical). Do you know why people were optimistic about the Sox and Machado? Because they thought the Sox would offer the most money; had nothing to do with team A or B not being involved. Why were the Sox offering the most money for Machado? Because all of his desirable destinations didn't sit at the table. If you take the Padres deal out of it and add the Yankees and Red Sox in at 250 million, like our deal, who would he sign with? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, mqr said: The only person playing for the Cubs vs the Sox would make a tangible difference to is Bryce Harper, and even then the difference is likely not much. Vehemently disagree. Like more than you can think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Of course the players care about money first, but if the money is close other factors come into play. If I was a player I'd much rather play for Tampa than the Sox because I'd be more likely to get another contract after playing with the Rays. Tampa will help me maximize my talent and idk wtf the Sox are doing. Yes, because Lucas Gioltio, Tim Anderson and Yoan Moncada were ruined by the White Sox organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mqr Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Why were the Sox offering the most money for Machado? Because all of his desirable destinations didn't sit at the table. If you take the Padres deal out of it and add the Yankees and Red Sox in at 250 million, like our deal, who would he sign with? Whichever team gave him the 300 million he wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Hes not right and it's a laughable claim. No one is comparing them to those teams but for you. I love when internet people decide the preferences of athletes they do not know. Agents like bigger markets more than small markets. The sox play in a top 4 market. That means more dollars. Hence why players and agents certainly dont rank Chicago lowly. The. Sox. Are. Not. A. Large. Market. Team. Despite playing in Chicago. Anyone who can't acknowledge that the Cubs own at least 65% of baseball fans in this city just has their head in the sand. The Sox area is the south side of the City proper and the south/near SW Burbs. That might be 1/4 of the population of the Chicago metro area. The Sox are closer to the remainder of the AL Central in market size. You could argue Detroit having a larger market than the Sox. They're on the mid-market/small market border at best. Edited November 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Why were the Sox offering the most money for Machado? Because all of his desirable destinations didn't sit at the table. If you take the Padres deal out of it and add the Yankees and Red Sox in at 250 million, like our deal, who would he sign with? I dont know because I dont know Manny Machado. You apparently do, though. He seemed to have a NY preference (one market that is BIGGER than Chicago) but who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 Grandal, an ace, and a second tier sp is my wish list sets us up huge for contending this year and being a monster in 2021+ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 5, 2019 Share Posted November 5, 2019 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Why would he get anything guaranteed above $9-10 million coming off the season he just had? To play 3B, SS or 2B everyday? If the Yankees are out, and that’s a very good possibility...who’s going to pay him that much? He was worth 0.9 for fWAR, Yolmer was worth 1.0. Why even bother with advanced metrics...if Yolmer’s numbers are just worth 28.6% of Gregorious’? OMG, prior year production <> future year production. Like this can't be your actual argument right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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