The Official Too Soon Mock Off Season Thread

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Thanks, I researched a long time prior to posting my realistic plan thread.  I can't swear on it but in the 40 plus pages on the RF thread not sure anyone mentioned Gardner.  Heck if you want an injury returning flyer Lonnie Chisenhall or one year wonder Cameron Maybin might have risk/reward appeal if cheap enough but again I don't want to miss on free agents since we need them to hit to contend.  Why I considered consistency, health, OBP, and LH in my plan.

I'm good with Brock Holt being the lefty  and main backup for 2nd , 3rd , SS ,LF or RF. He has also played 1st base too. I think he's a much headier and fundamentally sound player than Leury. Maybe there's room for both on the bench since can't overwork Gardner on days Robert needs off then also play him full time in RF . One catcher would also always be on the bench.

Wish I had a crystal ball on Collins . He will need reps with the Sox and not sure how he gets them unless he plays catcher as much as McCann with occasional DH duties and 1st base. A good Collins would eliminate the need for Grandal or Moose but it's always his catching abilities that come back around into the equation. He is the main reason I don't see the Sox going after Grandal. Or he gets traded and the Sox do go after Grandal or just figure  McCann and Castro is good enough at catcher

Many many ways they could go . Collins and Vaughn might be the biggest trade pieces the Sox have if they decide to trade any prospects but I know no one wants Vaughn traded since his arrival and Abreu's departure almost seem in lockstep.

[Bob Sacamano]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm good with Brock Holt being the lefty  and main backup for 2nd , 3rd , SS ,LF or RF. He has also played 1st base too. I think he's a much headier and fundamentally sound player than Leury. Maybe there's room for both on the bench since can't overwork Gardner on days Robert needs off then also play him full time in RF . One catcher would also always be on the bench.

Wish I had a crystal ball on Collins . He will need reps with the Sox and not sure how he gets them unless he plays catcher as much as McCann with occasional DH duties and 1st base. A good Collins would eliminate the need for Grandal or Moose but it's always his catching abilities that come back around into the equation. He is the main reason I don't see the Sox going after Grandal. Or he gets traded and the Sox do go after Grandal or just figure  McCann and Castro is good enough at catcher

Many many ways they could go . Collins and Vaughn might be the biggest trade pieces the Sox have if they decide to trade any prospects but I know no one wants Vaughn traded since his arrival and Abreu's departure almost seem in lockstep.

I could kind of see Collins moved in the off-season too. For what? Who knows.

Edited September 30, 2019 by soxfan2014

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, one of the reasons lots of people have talked about Grandal is the idea that he would DH sometimes - it does seem like Moustakas and Grandal are competing for ABs there somewhere, not to mention that Collins basically becomes worthless in that setup.

That said, I'm generally a fan of the Moustakas concept. 

Yea I tackled the whole Collins issue above before I even read this.

Edited September 30, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

I could kind of see Collins moved in the off-season to. For what? Who knows.

Ha yea I'm going to leave that to others to figure out, I was thinking Mets maybe for Nimmo , Got to hope Nimmo gets back to his 2018 self. That guy was a 20-25 HR good fielding , OBP wiz.

[BamaDoc]

If you add a switch hitter Grandal and a lefty hitting RF Gardner that is two mainly left handed hitters to our line up with much better plate discipline.  It would allow you to rotate at dh to rest people or by performance but more importantly who ever dh's has earned it unlike this year.  Heck if Collins hits he is one of C/1b/dh vs RHP (terrible # vs LHP) so would Grandal.  It just opens up so many more options.  Right now with a young  pitching staff I don't think Collins is ready to be a #2 catcher.  Without Grandal, if McCann hits like the second half or the rest of his career and Collins struggles , you return to a offensive hole in your lineup.  Again those two just make a lot of sense.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Dream scenario:

JDM for 4/$100M

Cole for 7/$225M

Resign Abreu 3/$45M

Sign Cam Maybin 1/$4M

Rich Hill 1/$5M base salary, incentives up to $10M based on IP

Steve Cishek 2/$11M

Trade Yolmer, Basabe, Pilkington, E Marshall for Nimmo

Final payroll $135-140M depending on incentives

Starting lineup post Robert and Madrigal grad:

Nimmo RF, JDM DH, Abreu 1B, Moncada 3B, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Robert CF, McCann C, Madrigal 2B

Bench: Leury, Maybin, Mendick, Collins

SP: Cole/Gio/Cease/Hill/Lopez to start with Kopech/Rodon due back

RP: Colome/Bummer/Cishek/Fry/Herrera/Cordero/Osich

Forget wildcard, this is a legit division winning team.

I think if JDM opts out, we're right in the middle of the running for him. In a more optimistic-realistic scenario, we get Wheeler or Odorizzi instead of Cole, and payroll ends up around $120-125M

And lastly, in a more pessimistic-realistic scenario, JDM doesn't opt out or he turns us down, we sign Moustakas (3/$45m), and Wheeler (4/$68M) as our 2 big FA acquisitions, with same remaining pieces as before, final payroll around $110-$115M. 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Well, one of the reasons lots of people have talked about Grandal is the idea that he would DH sometimes - it does seem like Moustakas and Grandal are competing for ABs there somewhere, not to mention that Collins basically becomes worthless in that setup.

That said, I'm generally a fan of the Moustakas concept. 

but.... what if Collins is already worthless.........................

[Bob Sacamano]

9 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Dream scenario:

JDM for 4/$100M

Cole for 7/$225M

Resign Abreu 3/$45M

Sign Cam Maybin 1/$4M

Rich Hill 1/$5M base salary, incentives up to $10M based on IP

Steve Cishek 2/$11M

Trade Yolmer, Basabe, Pilkington, E Marshall for Nimmo

Final payroll $135-140M depending on incentives

Starting lineup post Robert and Madrigal grad:

Nimmo RF, JDM DH, Abreu 1B, Moncada 3B, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Robert CF, McCann C, Madrigal 2B

Bench: Leury, Maybin, Mendick, Collins

SP: Cole/Gio/Cease/Hill/Lopez to start with Kopech/Rodon due back

RP: Colome/Bummer/Cishek/Fry/Herrera/Cordero/Osich

Forget wildcard, this is a legit division winning team.

I think if JDM opts out, we're right in the middle of the running for him. In a more optimistic-realistic scenario, we get Wheeler or Odorizzi instead of Cole, and payroll ends up around $120-125M

And lastly, in a more pessimistic-realistic scenario, JDM doesn't opt out or he turns us down, we sign Moustakas (3/$45m), and Wheeler (4/$68M) as our 2 big FA acquisitions, with same remaining pieces as before, final payroll around $110-$115M. 

His quote from yesterday didn't seem so re-assuring that he would stay.

Edited September 30, 2019 by soxfan2014

[thxfrthmmrs]

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

His quote from yesterday didn't seem so re-assuring that he would stay.

Something's gotta give, at this point it's very likely JDM opts out and Mookie gets extended, outside chance of Mookie even getting traded.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

43 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Dream scenario:

JDM for 4/$100M

Cole for 7/$225M

Resign Abreu 3/$45M

Sign Cam Maybin 1/$4M

Rich Hill 1/$5M base salary, incentives up to $10M based on IP

Steve Cishek 2/$11M

Trade Yolmer, Basabe, Pilkington, E Marshall for Nimmo

Final payroll $135-140M depending on incentives

Starting lineup post Robert and Madrigal grad:

Nimmo RF, JDM DH, Abreu 1B, Moncada 3B, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Robert CF, McCann C, Madrigal 2B

Bench: Leury, Maybin, Mendick, Collins

SP: Cole/Gio/Cease/Hill/Lopez to start with Kopech/Rodon due back

RP: Colome/Bummer/Cishek/Fry/Herrera/Cordero/Osich

Forget wildcard, this is a legit division winning team.

I think if JDM opts out, we're right in the middle of the running for him. In a more optimistic-realistic scenario, we get Wheeler or Odorizzi instead of Cole, and payroll ends up around $120-125M

And lastly, in a more pessimistic-realistic scenario, JDM doesn't opt out or he turns us down, we sign Moustakas (3/$45m), and Wheeler (4/$68M) as our 2 big FA acquisitions, with same remaining pieces as before, final payroll around $110-$115M. 

I think Cole will get more than $225M, but I love your ideas and there’s no reason why the Sox couldn’t pull it off  

[Chicago White Sox]

58 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Dream scenario:

JDM for 4/$100M

Cole for 7/$225M

Resign Abreu 3/$45M

Sign Cam Maybin 1/$4M

Rich Hill 1/$5M base salary, incentives up to $10M based on IP

Steve Cishek 2/$11M

Trade Yolmer, Basabe, Pilkington, E Marshall for Nimmo

Final payroll $135-140M depending on incentives

Starting lineup post Robert and Madrigal grad:

Nimmo RF, JDM DH, Abreu 1B, Moncada 3B, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Robert CF, McCann C, Madrigal 2B

Bench: Leury, Maybin, Mendick, Collins

SP: Cole/Gio/Cease/Hill/Lopez to start with Kopech/Rodon due back

RP: Colome/Bummer/Cishek/Fry/Herrera/Cordero/Osich

Forget wildcard, this is a legit division winning team.

I think if JDM opts out, we're right in the middle of the running for him. In a more optimistic-realistic scenario, we get Wheeler or Odorizzi instead of Cole, and payroll ends up around $120-125M

And lastly, in a more pessimistic-realistic scenario, JDM doesn't opt out or he turns us down, we sign Moustakas (3/$45m), and Wheeler (4/$68M) as our 2 big FA acquisitions, with same remaining pieces as before, final payroll around $110-$115M. 

I love most of this, but your Nimmo package is way too light.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I love most of this, but your Nimmo package is way too light.

Yeah it's going to cost Stiever to get Nimmo, and if that is the case I'd pass. 

[thxfrthmmrs]

If Mets push for Stiever instead of Pilk I’d still do it. The offense is going to be that much better with a .370 OBP bat leading off for the next 3 years.

On Cole, I have projected him at the magical $32M AAV months ago, but with a Co Cy Young likely coming, won’t be surprised if he gets another $30M on the total contract value.

[pcq]

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I did look just to see if he could still play CF and that seals it for me. He is a better option than Dickerson in fielding versatility and the power and OBP is  equal  .Dickerson OPS much higher and likely to be since that HR total for Gardner seems like an outlier but with the juicy ball maybe it isn't.  So yea I'm convinced since I've been preaching versatility . So goodbye Engel along with Yolmer and Leury too. Maybe they could be used in some minor trades. Maybe keep Engel in AAA if possible.

 

3 hours ago, BamaDoc said:

Preach on Brother!  +1 to ya

There are guys who hang on just getting a month or so in the bigs and I suppose we need them. Seeing Leury lead off every day gets a little old. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, pcq said:

 

There are guys who hang on just getting a month or so in the bigs and I suppose we need them. Seeing Leury lead off every day gets a little old. 

Until Robert comes up Leury or Engel might be needed, Or if you get Gardner in CF and Brock Holt in RF until he does. Or if you get Nimmo he leads off plays CF and Holt in RF until then.

[BamaDoc]

Holt and Leury would give a pretty good amount of positional versatility.  Against most peoples perception, Yolmer out WARs Holt most years but I would probably do who fits economically .  Sign Holt, Get something for Yolmer in trade?  Or maybe we get Yolmers bat where it was a couple years back.  His power at 25 way better than now.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

Dream scenario:

JDM for 4/$100M

Cole for 7/$225M

Resign Abreu 3/$45M

Sign Cam Maybin 1/$4M

Rich Hill 1/$5M base salary, incentives up to $10M based on IP

Steve Cishek 2/$11M

Trade Yolmer, Basabe, Pilkington, E Marshall for Nimmo

Final payroll $135-140M depending on incentives

Starting lineup post Robert and Madrigal grad:

Nimmo RF, JDM DH, Abreu 1B, Moncada 3B, Eloy LF, Anderson SS, Robert CF, McCann C, Madrigal 2B

Bench: Leury, Maybin, Mendick, Collins

SP: Cole/Gio/Cease/Hill/Lopez to start with Kopech/Rodon due back

RP: Colome/Bummer/Cishek/Fry/Herrera/Cordero/Osich

Forget wildcard, this is a legit division winning team.

I think if JDM opts out, we're right in the middle of the running for him. In a more optimistic-realistic scenario, we get Wheeler or Odorizzi instead of Cole, and payroll ends up around $120-125M

And lastly, in a more pessimistic-realistic scenario, JDM doesn't opt out or he turns us down, we sign Moustakas (3/$45m), and Wheeler (4/$68M) as our 2 big FA acquisitions, with same remaining pieces as before, final payroll around $110-$115M. 

I always appreciate so much effort being put into a post like this so it's great. I also think you are a very legit poster.

However Moncada and Nimmo are the only lefties in the starting lineup. I'd like at least one more. Bench seems a little thin and the BP is also thin on the back end

If you have Maybin and Mendick why do you need Leury ? I'd much rather have Holt or take a flyer on a guy who may have more upside if he can bounce back like Gennett . JDM and Cole are way too expensive when you can go much cheaper and provide more depth with Moose , Gardner both LH with Moose providing the depth at 2nd, 3rd and 1st. Also won't have to trade for Nimmo and perhaps get Grandal instead for more power , OBP and to split catcher and DH to keep him and McCann fresher. You can use the money saved on JDM and Cole for another top of the line starting pitcher and perhaps another starter another BP arm and have Rodon and even Dunning back to provide either SP or bullpen depth in the 2nd half.

I know I haven't broken it down salary wise like you did so i know there might be some holes I haven't quite figured out. Maybe you trade Collins for the extra BP arm and some minor leaguer.

[Jerksticks]

Ok calling it now:

White Sox trade Bummer & Walker/Adolfo for Dylan Carlson from the Cardinals once they extend Ozuna.  There’s your opening day RF.  

Or they go for Pache but I think it’ll be Carlson. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

28 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Holt and Leury would give a pretty good amount of positional versatility.  Against most peoples perception, Yolmer out WARs Holt most years but I would probably do who fits economically .  Sign Holt, Get something for Yolmer in trade?  Or maybe we get Yolmers bat where it was a couple years back.  His power at 25 way better than now.

Yolmer out WARs Holt mainly because he is all defense and I basically have come to the conclusion that WAR assigns too much value for defense . I'd rather have the better hitter who plays average to slightly above average defense than the all glove/no hit in the lineup in case of injury, Sox can't wait for Yolmer to figure out what the pitchers are doing to him when he K's too much and hit for no power with the juicy ball. Holt is much more consistent hitting and won't hurt you with his baseball smarts like Leury does.

Edited October 1, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
changed Aox to Sox, mire to more

[BamaDoc]

Agree with you, coming around on a Holt Leury bench which covers about everything but catcher which the Grandal/McCann possibly Collins covers leaving either Collins plus one for bench or if Collins isn't hitting or traded, two openings.  In late innings hard to pinch hit if your guys are all defensive specialists. 

Edited October 1, 2019 by BamaDoc

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

Ok calling it now:

White Sox trade Bummer & Walker/Adolfo for Dylan Carlson from the Cardinals once they extend Ozuna.  There’s your opening day RF.  

Or they go for Pache but I think it’ll be Carlson. 

Why would they extend Ozuna when they have Carlson waiting to play ? Sox really need Bummer.

[BamaDoc]

I will reiterate, with the change in rule that relievers pitch to three batters or end an inning, LOOGYs may disappear.  Bummer has no such split problems making him even more valuable.  Who is our other best lefty?  Osich was good on lefties .551 OPS righties .903.  

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Agree with you, coming around on a Holt Leury bench which covers about everything but catcher where the Grandal/McCann possibly Collins covers leaving either Collins plus one for bench or if Collins isn't hitting or traded, two openings.  In late innings hard to pinch hit if your guys are all defensive specialists. 

The Collins dilemma is the only thing bugging me. I really don't expect the Sox to contend because they need to make so many upgrades and I doubt they can pull them all off. Plus they need more/better result from Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Collins, Robert , Rodon, Dunning and Madrigal. Basically they are still too young in 2020. And I still don't like trading any of then except perhaps Collins . He will K a lot no matter what but if he can not be terrible behind the plate and a good arm and game caller and get on base and provide power , play some decent 1st base he really can be a key piece to the rebuild .

Edited October 1, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[thxfrthmmrs]

15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I always appreciate so much effort being put into a post like this so it's great. I also think you are a very legit poster.

However Moncada and Nimmo are the only lefties in the starting lineup. I'd like at least one more. Bench seems a little thin and the BP is also thin on the back end

If you have Maybin and Mendick why do you need Leury ? I'd much rather have Holt or take a flyer on a guy who may have more upside if he can bounce back like Gennett . JDM and Cole are way too expensive when you can go much cheaper and provide more depth with Moose , Gardner both LH with Moose providing the depth at 2nd, 3rd and 1st. Also won't have to trade for Nimmo and perhaps get Grandal instead for more power , OBP and to split catcher and DH to keep him and McCann fresher. You can use the money saved on JDM and Cole for another top of the line starting pitcher and perhaps another starter another BP arm and have Rodon and even Dunning back to provide either SP or bullpen depth in the 2nd half.

I know I haven't broken it down salary wise like you did so i know there might be some holes I haven't quite figured out. Maybe you trade Collins for the extra BP arm and some minor leaguer.

With Robert and Nimmo’s history it makes sense to grab a 5th OF, guys like Maybin and Parra makes sense here. Plus if Mendick struggles in his role, Leury could fill in as the primary backup IF. I would lean toward using the last bench slot on someone who is versatile and do a bit of everything instead of a 1B/DH slug Sox has been prone to do.

I wouldn’t mind a Grandal signing, but he won’t be my first option. It’s one thing to be skeptical of a McCann repeat, but Collins has shown enough to get a shot at backup/DH and eventually C of the future. Ironically Collins’ offensive prime could look a lot like Grandal in recent years. Spending big money on Grandal and having him spend a bulk of time at DH would be a waste of resource for me. Having potentially 2 catchers who could catch and hit (Grandal and McCann) would be a nice luxury, but I rather spend the $$ elsewhere.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

24 minutes ago, thxfrthmmrs said:

With Robert and Nimmo’s history it makes sense to grab a 5th OF, guys like Maybin and Parra makes sense here. Plus if Mendick struggles in his role, Leury could fill in as the primary backup IF. I would lean toward using the last bench slot on someone who is versatile and do a bit of everything instead of a 1B/DH slug Sox has been prone to do.

I wouldn’t mind a Grandal signing, but he won’t be my first option. It’s one thing to be skeptical of a McCann repeat, but Collins has shown enough to get a shot at backup/DH and eventually C of the future. Ironically Collins’ offensive prime could look a lot like Grandal in recent years. Spending big money on Grandal and having him spend a bulk of time at DH would be a waste of resource for me. Having potentially 2 catchers who could catch and hit (Grandal and McCann) would be a nice luxury, but I rather spend the $$ elsewhere.

Yea i didn't mind the Maybin signing and in my scenario Holt has played plenty of OF but not CF which is where Maybe comes in or in my case Gardner who gives you the , LH ,OBP ( not great but not bad depending on his batting average) and the power . I know Collins needs a look as do many others like Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Robert and Madrigal so not sure the division is realistic next year with a whole bunch of basically guys in their 1st seasons. I'm thinking Eloy turns into our version of JDM next year which is why I thinkJDM isn't needed . Just too much bad D and not enough LH or versatility.

Edited October 1, 2019 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside