Would you trade for Mookie Betts, and what would you trade

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, 3500S said:

You know the Twins went from 78 to 103 wins right? You act like its impossible when it very clearly isn't.

As soon as Hahn shows he's capable of hitting on 75-85% of his FA signings, sure.

He hasn't even come close to that.

This type of logic goes back to 2004-05 and the "riverboat gambler" mentality of KW going for it each and every year at the rade deadline.

SURE, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

But there are pretty much zero indicators this ownership/front office staff is capable of being the ones to pull it off, except for the once every 88 years hitting of the Power Ball by blind luck.

 

[BackDoorBreach]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It's not ONE team, it's still two.

The Indians won 93, we won twenty less than that.

Unless the Twins for some strange reason (with a youngish core) decided to blow everything up completely...and alienate all the season ticket holders in a relatively new stadium, they're going to be there again.  God knows what the Indians will do, but they're more likely to go for it again than tear things down.

I think you're putting WAY too much stock into Kopech making a big contribution next season.  He would have to be nearly an All-Star level performer, either him or Cease, for any of this to make sense.

There is no way the Twins sniff 100 wins next year in my opinion.  They are losing their 2nd best pitcher and had everything click for them this year.  

Cleveland still has positional issues even though that staff is top tier.  We will see.  I just don't see how the Sox have a worse record next year against the Twins and Indians.  Cleveland also went something around 15-1 against Detroit.  That won't happen again you never see anything like that.

[3500S]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

As soon as Hahn shows he's capable of hitting on 75-85% of his FA signings, sure.

He hasn't even come close to that.

This type of logic goes back to 2004-05 and the "riverboat gambler" mentality of KW going for it each and every year at the rade deadline.

SURE, IT'S ALWAYS POSSIBLE.

But there are pretty much zero indicators this ownership/front office staff is capable of being the ones to pull it off, except for the once every 88 years hitting of the Power Ball by blind luck.

 

Well  the reality is trying to sit back and develop this core while adorning it with Zach Wheeler-tier free agents is not going to get it done. We've done that before and it didn't work very well. The Sox are simply short on elite talent even if they hit on Kopech and Robert. Someone would need to come out of nowhere. I know we're all sick to death of thinking about Tatis Jr. but that move looms massively over everything because what the Sox need is just one more guy who can be a star and then you can start seeing this work.

I have zero faith anyone in the minors after Robert and Madrigal are called up can fulfill that potential. Maybe Vaughn but he would need to be extraordinary.

But when I'm presented with the option of perhaps trading that unknown commodity in Vaughn for a known commodity in Betts who just happens to be EXACTLY the player the Sox need...well even for one year I cant help but be all about it.

[caulfield12]

41 minutes ago, 3500S said:

Well  the reality is trying to sit back and develop this core while adorning it with Zach Wheeler-tier free agents is not going to get it done. We've done that before and it didn't work very well. The Sox are simply short on elite talent even if they hit on Kopech and Robert. Someone would need to come out of nowhere. I know we're all sick to death of thinking about Tatis Jr. but that move looms massively over everything because what the Sox need is just one more guy who can be a star and then you can start seeing this work.

I have zero faith anyone in the minors after Robert and Madrigal are called up can fulfill that potential. Maybe Vaughn but he would need to be extraordinary.

But when I'm presented with the option of perhaps trading that unknown commodity in Vaughn for a known commodity in Betts who just happens to be EXACTLY the player the Sox need...well even for one year I cant help but be all about it.

We would be on a ten year rebuild without Sale, Eaton and Q.

That much is obvious.

As it stands now, after we graduate those 3 players in the next calendar year, we might be all the way down in the mid 20's in terms of farm system rankings heading into the 2020-21 offseason.

If we keep Vaughn in the minors and make an amazing pick at #11, we're around 18-22nd.   I guess Stiever or one of the low minor league hurlers could put together a Daniel Hudson/Brandon McCarthy ascent, but that hasn't happened for ages.  Hansen was the closest, and he just basically imploded after early success.

[poppysox]

9 hours ago, 3500S said:

Vaughn, Stiever, Walker + something from A-ball. Those are you three most valuable minor leaguers after Madrigal and Robert.

Under no circumstances include Robert or Kopech (Eloy, Giolito and Moncada go without saying).

If push comes to shove I'd include Madrigal or Cease + Vaughn.

One year rentals are taboo.  Not what a rebuild is about.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

The rebuild is over. It's go time.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

There's hope for you yet.

[Panerista]

7 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The rebuild is over. It's go time.

If you're trading for Betts, he has to re-sign.  This year isn't the year a one year rental gets us over the hill.  

[pcq]

Betts has told everyone listening they he would not sign an extension except with JR. ?

[3500S]

8 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

If you're trading for Betts, he has to re-sign.  This year isn't the year a one year rental gets us over the hill.  

You won't get that guarantee from him no matter where he goes. That's why he's even available. Even compared to Harper, Betts is a tier above.

[Black_Jack29]

10 hours ago, 3500S said:

You won't get that guarantee from him no matter where he goes. That's why he's even available. Even compared to Harper, Betts is a tier above.

Then that's a big, fat "no."

Even if Betts was willing to sign for like 10/375 or whatever the heck it'd be, I'm not a fan of the Sox allocating $30M+ per year for a decade to a single player. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can do this without hamstringing themselves because their ownership is willing/able to shell out $200M+ per year in payroll. Until the Sox are able to do that, I'm a hard pass on massive-contract guys like Betts, Harper, and Machado.

[Jack Parkman]

4 minutes ago, Black_Jack29 said:

Then that's a big, fat "no."

Even if Betts was willing to sign for like 10/375 or whatever the heck it'd be, I'm not a fan of the Sox allocating $30M+ per year for a decade to a single player. Teams like the Yankees and Dodgers can do this without hamstringing themselves because their ownership is willing/able to shell out $200M+ per year in payroll. Until the Sox are able to do that, I'm a hard pass on massive-contract guys like Betts, Harper, and Machado.

You do realize that Moncada is likely to be that guy too, right? You willing to pass on him? 

[Black_Jack29]

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You do realize that Moncada is likely to be that guy too, right? You willing to pass on him? 

I absolutely expect the Sox to let Moncada walk as a FA in 2024, and I have no problem with that. We're getting him in the prime of his career for a relative bargain. Somebody else can pay him $45M per year when he's 37 and 38 years old.

 

[caulfield12]

Logically, the Astros need to trade/dump Josh Reddick to open up a spot for Kyle Tucker.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Logically, the Astros need to trade/dump Josh Reddick to open up a spot for Kyle Tucker.

 

Wouldn't be a bad idea if they miss every other target for RF. Should be a salary dump as you said.

[Timmy U]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Logically, the Astros need to trade/dump Josh Reddick to open up a spot for Kyle Tucker.

 

As he should be.  33 year old next year coming off an 89 ops+ in a great lineup.  Seems like a real risk of John Jay repeat.

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, Timmy U said:

As he should be.  33 year old next year coming off an 89 ops+ in a great lineup.  Seems like a real risk of John Jay repeat.

Well, yeah...you can argue Dickerson, Avi, Puig, Calhoun, Nimmo or Polanco TIL you’re blue in the face, but there aren’t any guarantees attached to anyone.

Coming from an AL career, the risk is somewhat mitigated...and he can at least handle the position competently.  Marisnick would be another, cheaper option to acquire for filling the spot one season.  And really improve the defense markedly.

[bmags]

You guys really want to build a 77 win team.

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, bmags said:

You guys really want to build a 77 win team.

We're just being realistic.

Fine, Grandal, Betts, Moustakas, Wheeler, Keuchel/R.Hill/Miley and another RH reliever.

That won't cost much.

Practically a guaranteed AL Central title.  Only $170-185 million, right?  No problem.

[Sarava]

17 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

You do realize that Moncada is likely to be that guy too, right? You willing to pass on him? 

That's where we hope an extension can happen this winter. Now is the time to act, before he can start to sniff free agency and a potential 250+ mil deal. 

[bmags]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

We're just being realistic.

Fine, Grandal, Betts, Moustakas, Wheeler, Keuchel/R.Hill/Miley and another RH reliever.

That won't cost much.

Practically a guaranteed AL Central title.  Only $170-185 million, right?  No problem.

There is zero point to acquiring josh reddick except the thrill of writing a name down. I'd rather acquire 1-2 of those guys who may actually make an impact than play the horsecrap "if just get 1 WAR from our RF that's a 4 WAR improvement!" game. He's turning 33. He's making 13 million. And we'd have to trade assets.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, bmags said:

There is zero point to acquiring josh reddick except the thrill of writing a name down. I'd rather acquire 1-2 of those guys who may actually make an impact than play the horsecrap "if just get 1 WAR from our RF that's a 4 WAR improvement!" game. He's turning 33. He's making 13 million. And we'd have to trade assets.

If he’s so bad, then why would we not ask for some money coming back or just dump a spare reliever or two on them?

I mean, it’s not like every veteran is doomed to not make any meaningful contributions.

For example, Lowrie, Kendrick and Zobrist all had really solid seasons in their mid 30s and beyond...to name a few.

[bmags]

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-offseason-potential-scenarios

heres a bad article that has Betts to White Sox.

The Texas for Bryant deal is terrible.

[iWiN4PreP]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-offseason-potential-scenarios

heres a bad article that has Betts to White Sox.

The Texas for Bryant deal is terrible.

Betts would be so awesome on the W'Sox. I'd love for that to happen.

But I'd be so F***ing worried about signing him. Any deal for 1-year would be a disaster. 

[BackDoorBreach]

9 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Betts would be so awesome on the W'Sox. I'd love for that to happen.

But I'd be so F***ing worried about signing him. Any deal for 1-year would be a disaster. 

You would have to ask Boston permission to negotiate an extension before trading for him and be prepared to offfer him over 330 million dollars.  I don't touch it if it's just a 1 year deal.