Would you trade for Mookie Betts, and what would you trade

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Flash said:

All depends on the significant assets. Personally, I would try to put an acceptable package together sans Madrigal, Kopech and Robert and try to resign him, ala Cards/Goldschmidt. No reason to believe he won't be happy here as long as he gets paid. To me, other than Wheeler, Betts would be the biggest needle mover towards competitiveness.  

Exactly.

I totally get those that say we should just aim to sign him next year, I don't understand those that just accept him as a rental and we should stay away.

If sox decided they were not the sox, there is actually a very favorable market to be team to sign betts next year.

Yankees unlikely, Dodgers possible (but I think they will go after rendon/pitching making another splash move unlikely), red sox unlikely if he gets to FA, nats unlikely, cubs unlikely, houston unlikely.

Rangers, braves, padres are the teams it's possible go for spending at him.

Getting this type of premium talent using the savings from cheaper young good players was kinda why I thought we did a rebuild.

I think people are too concerned with making sure 2024-2027 keeps the ride going at the cost of the ride never really starting.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I totally get those that say we should just aim to sign him next year, I don't understand those that just accept him as a rental and we should stay away.

Betts is not going to sign an extension.  There is zero reason for him to not test free agency.  Trading assets for 1 year of a star player before the Sox are clearly in contention mode would be idiotic.  Mookie most likely doesn't even make this a playoff team in 2020.  

If the Red Sox want to trade Betts for something like Rutherford + Sheets + Pilkington - sure make the deal, and roll the dice.  There is no point in giving up anything more than that, and there is a 0% chance a team closer to contention would not beat that package.  Giving up Madrigal for 1 year of Betts is the type of deal that is going to get hammered for a decade as Madrigal becomes one of the stars of baseball in Boston.  

Hahn pretty much said last week that 1 year rentals that will require a lot to acquire are not really in the cards, so not sure why this is still being discussed.    

[glangon]

There are lessons here in trading for 1 year rentals.

We traded Semien away for Samardija in the hope he would sign. He did not sign and Semien went on to become an MVP finalist this year. Let's not make the same mistake.

Also, I know it's not the same but the trade of Tatis for a short term rental of James Shields will forever haunt us.

[Balta1701]

33 minutes ago, Flash said:

All depends on the significant assets. Personally, I would try to put an acceptable package together sans Madrigal, Kopech and Robert and try to resign him, ala Cards/Goldschmidt. No reason to believe he won't be happy here as long as he gets paid. To me, other than Wheeler, Betts would be the biggest needle mover towards competitiveness.  

Add Vaughn to that list.

[bmags]

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Betts is not going to sign an extension.  There is zero reason for him to not test free agency.  Trading assets for 1 year of a star player before the Sox are clearly in contention mode would be idiotic.  Mookie most likely doesn't even make this a playoff team in 2020.  

If the Red Sox want to trade Betts for something like Rutherford + Sheets + Pilkington - sure make the deal, and roll the dice.  There is no point in giving up anything more than that, and there is a 0% chance a team closer to contention would not beat that package.  Giving up Madrigal for 1 year of Betts is the type of deal that is going to get hammered for a decade as Madrigal becomes one of the stars of baseball in Boston.  

Hahn pretty much said last week that 1 year rentals that will require a lot to acquire are not really in the cards, so not sure why this is still being discussed.    

So ... the sox could just sign him after he tests free agency... 

Also I have no idea why sox fans feel like they need to only discuss what our GM says they will do and not what the team should do. If Hahn said expensive pitchers are risky, should we just all act like signing Wade Miley is the best path forward? 

 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

This whole Semien and Samardzija backlash is such a joke.  NO ONE and I mean no one disliked that trade when it was made.  Samardzija was coming off productive years and we looked like we finally wanted to contend.  Semien was a UTL player at best.  We all agreed on that then.  It just so happens that Samardzija turned into a terrible pitcher and Semien (5 years later) became a star... Hindsight is nice... But not when you use it to act like we never should have made the deal, when in reality we all loved it.

[pcq]

No I do not trade any key prospects. 

[bmags]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Add Vaughn to that list.

Nice, we've overton window'd you to allow cease (which has been my trade piece)

[ChiSox59]

42 minutes ago, bmags said:

So ... the sox could just sign him after he tests free agency... 

Also I have no idea why sox fans feel like they need to only discuss what our GM says they will do and not what the team should do. If Hahn said expensive pitchers are risky, should we just all act like signing Wade Miley is the best path forward? 

This team SHOULD NOT trade significant assets for a 1 year player,  Is that better?

Sign Betts in 13 months.  Don't give up Madrigal or Cease or Vaughn for a guy that is going to walk after 1 season.  Its silly.  

[steveno89]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

This team SHOULD NOT trade significant assets for a 1 year player,  Is that better?

Sign Betts in 13 months.  Don't give up Madrigal or Cease or Vaughn for a guy that is going to walk after 1 season.  Its silly.  

Betts to the Sox is not going to happen agreed, at least not until next offseason potentially. We are far from being one player away from contention.

Edited November 18, 2019 by steveno89

[Harold's Leg Lift]

He wouldn't be the only player they acquire this off season.  

[Thad Bosley]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Betts is not going to sign an extension.  There is zero reason for him to not test free agency.  Trading assets for 1 year of a star player before the Sox are clearly in contention mode would be idiotic.  Mookie most likely doesn't even make this a playoff team in 2020.  

If the Red Sox want to trade Betts for something like Rutherford + Sheets + Pilkington - sure make the deal, and roll the dice.  There is no point in giving up anything more than that, and there is a 0% chance a team closer to contention would not beat that package.  Giving up Madrigal for 1 year of Betts is the type of deal that is going to get hammered for a decade as Madrigal becomes one of the stars of baseball in Boston.  

Hahn pretty much said last week that 1 year rentals that will require a lot to acquire are not really in the cards, so not sure why this is still being discussed.    

The only scenario I can see where we might have an advantage over other teams is the Sox' ability to take on another big contract (like David Price's, for example) along with Betts.  I'd rather do that than part with any of these elite prospects it's taken so long to accumulate and develop.  

[bmags]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

This team SHOULD NOT trade significant assets for a 1 year player,  Is that better?

Sign Betts in 13 months.  Don't give up Madrigal or Cease or Vaughn for a guy that is going to walk after 1 season.  Its silly.  

But if "he's going to walk" then you are saying sox shouldn't sign betts next offseason.

[bmags]

41 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

The only scenario I can see where we might have an advantage over other teams is the Sox' ability to take on another big contract (like David Price's, for example) along with Betts.  I'd rather do that than part with any of these elite prospects it's taken so long to accumulate and develop.  

We can absorb his entire 2019 salary a lot better than other teams, that's already an advantage.

[ChiSox59]

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

But if "he's going to walk" then you are saying sox shouldn't sign betts next offseason.

Do I think the Sox should go after Betts in 2020?  Sure, assuming Adolfo doesn't explode into a big time prospect in 2020, which I think is a decent possibility if he can stay healthy.  

I do not like the Sox chances of actually landing him, and even if the Sox were dumb enough to trade Madrigal or Cease for Betts prior to 2020 season, Betts is still going to test FA. Does that mean the Sox can't sign him? Obviously not.  But it means they'll have to outbid 29 other clubs on the open market.  Therefore, I am not trading any significant assets for him this winter.  

[Southwest Sider]

I don't know why Betts would need to test FA if he gets offered a mega contract. If he enjoys himself here and the Sox blow his socks off with a deal, why not sign it? It definitely appears to be a trend in this league now for teams and players to negotiate extensions that players are happy enough taking instead of testing FA. Why go through a long, drawn out, stressful FA process for maybe a few million more if some team is offering a Harper or Trout type deal?

But I just don't see the 3 keys to this deal even being possible

1) Red Sox motivated to trade Mookie instead of other pieces

2) Red Sox ok accepting marginal prospects for Mookie

3) White Sox willing to give out a contract between Harper and Trouts

Edited November 18, 2019 by South Sider

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I don't know why Betts would need to test FA if he gets offered a mega contract. If he enjoys himself here and the Sox blow his socks off with a deal, why not sign it? It definitely appears to be a trend in this league now for teams and players to negotiate extensions that players are happy enough taking instead of testing FA. Why go through a long, drawn out, stressful FA process for maybe a few million more if some team is offering a Harper or Trout type deal?

But I just don't see the 3 keys to this deal even being possible

1) Red Sox motivated to trade Mookie instead of other pieces

2) Red Sox ok accepting marginal prospects for Mookie

3) White Sox willing to give out a contract between Harper and Trouts

Are we prepared to go into nearly Trout-like dollars for him? Because that's what "Blowing his socks off with a deal" would be.

[BackDoorBreach]

He's going to be more than Harper and less than Trout.  350-380 million?  Maybe more?

Just go and get Cole for 80-100 million less.

[chitownsportsfan]

2 hours ago, cjgalloway said:

This whole Semien and Samardzija backlash is such a joke.  NO ONE and I mean no one disliked that trade when it was made.  Samardzija was coming off productive years and we looked like we finally wanted to contend.  Semien was a UTL player at best.  We all agreed on that then.  It just so happens that Samardzija turned into a terrible pitcher and Semien (5 years later) became a star... Hindsight is nice... But not when you use it to act like we never should have made the deal, when in reality we all loved it.

Yea but the Sox thought Semien wasn't a SS.  Oakland made a mockery of the Sox' internal scouting and MLB coaching staff over time.  He is now a gold glove SS and an MVP candidate.   You can say it was "bad luck" or "hindsight is 20/20" but also you can say Oakland's scouting and coaching is >>>>>>>>> Chicago's.  And that's been proven out in the W/L record over the last decade.

[mqr]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Are we prepared to go into nearly Trout-like dollars for him? Because that's what "Blowing his socks off with a deal" would be.

And also be prepared for him to say oh really? let me see if someone will top that. 

[southsideirish71]

17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea but the Sox thought Semien wasn't a SS.  Oakland made a mockery of the Sox' internal scouting and MLB coaching staff over time.  He is now a gold glove SS and an MVP candidate.   You can say it was "bad luck" or "hindsight is 20/20" but also you can say Oakland's scouting and coaching is >>>>>>>>> Chicago's.  And that's been proven out in the W/L record over the last decade.

The difference was that the A's employed Ron Washington who worked with Semien and focused on his defensive craft.  He is doing the same thing with the Braves young players. Whomever is doing this for the whitesox is failing.   Its sad really.   Through the rebuild phase we should of focused on defense as one of the aspects of fundamental baseball.  Tim Anderson should of been an absolute priority.   

Edited November 18, 2019 by southsideirish71

[ChiSox59]

26 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Yea but the Sox thought Semien wasn't a SS.  Oakland made a mockery of the Sox' internal scouting and MLB coaching staff over time.  He is now a gold glove SS and an MVP candidate.   You can say it was "bad luck" or "hindsight is 20/20" but also you can say Oakland's scouting and coaching is >>>>>>>>> Chicago's.  And that's been proven out in the W/L record over the last decade.

I am not defending that trade, but Semien was still terrible defensively with Oakland the year after the trade.  He really didn't become a plus defender until 2018, after 1 season of being one of if not the worst SS in the league, and another 2 seasons of average at best defense.  

Could he have made that same progress with the Sox?  Impossible to say.  But its not like Oakland transformed him overnight.  

[hi8is]

How long until this thread reaches 300 pages?

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

How long until this thread reaches 300 pages?

I dunno does Bob Nightengale want to make it so?  One tweet about a "rumor" would do it.  Bring it on.  It's the dead season.

[Flash]

40 minutes ago, mqr said:

And also be prepared for him to say oh really? let me see if someone will top that. 

The market is what the market is. If we are not players above a certain level, fine. That would apply to any superstar...Betts, Trout, Bellinger, etc. I would think our chances of signing him are significantly better once he gets here (i,e. Goldschmidt) then waiting until 2021. In the meantime, we could pencil him in every game in 2020 when, along with another starter (Wheeler?) and BP piece (Pomeranz?), Sox can make some noise.