Would you trade for Mookie Betts, and what would you trade

[mqr]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

 I would think our chances of signing him are significantly better once he gets here

Betting the farm on this hunch would be really ill advised.

[Southwest Sider]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Are we prepared to go into nearly Trout-like dollars for him? Because that's what "Blowing his socks off with a deal" would be.

Probably not. See condition #3.

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

The market is what the market is. If we are not players above a certain level, fine. That would apply to any superstar...Betts, Trout, Bellinger, etc. I would think our chances of signing him are significantly better once he gets here (i,e. Goldschmidt) then waiting until 2021. In the meantime, we could pencil him in every game in 2020 when, along with another starter (Wheeler?) and BP piece (Pomeranz?), Sox can make some noise.

Making some noise at the expense of Madrigal or Vaughn or Cease is so short sighted and stupid.

Unless you like watching Tatis transition into a star on the Padres and not the Sox, not sure how any right minded Sox fan can get behind trading any legitimate prospects for 1 year of Betts. 

[Southwest Sider]

24 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I dunno does Bob Nightengale want to make it so?  One tweet about a "rumor" would do it.  Bring it on.  It's the dead season.

I could go for a juicy "Red Sox asking price isn't ridiculous, White Sox are sniffing around" rumor. ?

 

[BackDoorBreach]

There is no reason to trade any of our legitimate prospects for Betts unless that comes with a contract extension.  He is a free agent in 2021.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Are we prepared to go into nearly Trout-like dollars for him? Because that's what "Blowing his socks off with a deal" would be.

Are "we"? Yes.

You could land in the sweet spot of exceeding harpers total value and beating Trouts AAV. 10 years/360

[Flash]

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Making some noise at the expense of Madrigal or Vaughn or Cease is so short sighted and stupid.

Unless you like watching Tatis transition into a star on the Padres and not the Sox, not sure how any right minded Sox fan can get behind trading any legitimate prospects for 1 year of Betts. 

Who advocates trading Madrigal, Vaughn or Cease? Maybe scroll to the beginning where we talk about who not to include. Or are you psychic and already know Red Sox asking price? 

[mqr]

Mookie Betts has won a world series and is generally beloved in Boston and still wants absolutely zero to do with an early extension. Let's get the idea that having him here for a year will make him more amicable out of our head. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by mqr

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

Mookie Betts has won a world series and is generally beloved in Boston and still wants absolutely zero to do with an early extension. Let's get the idea that having him here for a year will make him more amicable out of our head. 

Money talks.  Why would he kneecap himself negotiating with 1 team when he will be negotiating with most of the league next year?  Here's the plan: come at Boston with a solid offer.  Put the ball in their court.  Get Betts into the fold, win the division, and resign him.  

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

Are "we"? Yes.

You could land in the sweet spot of exceeding harpers total value and beating Trouts AAV. 10 years/360

I see no reason why Mookie Betts would sign that contract right now. If he has another MVP caliber season, that would look like a "Starting point" for him, something he could readily beat by testing the free agent market. That is very far from "Blowing his socks off".

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Flash said:

Who advocates trading Madrigal, Vaughn or Cease? Maybe scroll to the beginning where we talk about who not to include. Or are you psychic and already know Red Sox asking price? 

 

3 hours ago, bmags said:

Nice, we've overton window'd you to allow cease (which has been my trade piece)

There ya go.

[bmags]

The sox rebuild has a lot of good players, but they still need to be pretty aggressive to put them in that consistent contention range. Prioritizing betts and signing a top pitcher puts them in that window where you can play around the margins of finding 1-year deal churn for DH/C/backend rotation, while having some ammunition for July splash moves for needs.

I think all I want people to acknowledge is that there are a lot of risks, and while Betts FA poses a tangible one. But losing time is a risk too. Signing a bunch of B-level players to 3 year deals and losing opportunity for Betts is a risk. Banking on all of our more advanced 5-10 prospects to have value as high as it is now is a risk.

This is aggressive, but this is a fantastic player that does not become available often. But I get it, we do have Micker Adolfo.

[mqr]

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Money talks.  Why would he kneecap himself negotiating with 1 team when he will be negotiating with most of the league next year?  Here's the plan: come at Boston with a solid offer.  Put the ball in their court.  Get Betts into the fold, win the division, and resign him.  

I think the MUCH more likely scenario is trade for him, lose the division anyway, have him walk the next off season, and regret giving up whoever it is. 

[ChiSox59]

8 minutes ago, Flash said:

Who advocates trading Madrigal, Vaughn or Cease? Maybe scroll to the beginning where we talk about who not to include. Or are you psychic and already know Red Sox asking price? 

I know the Red Sox aren't going to trade one of the best players in the game for a bunch of garbage.  Let's also remember there are a bunch of other clubs that would also like Mookie in their lineup, so you have to outbid them.  

So good luck, buddy.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I see no reason why Mookie Betts would sign that contract right now. If he has another MVP caliber season, that would look like a "Starting point" for him, something he could readily beat by testing the free agent market. That is very far from "Blowing his socks off".

Well he's also going to be 29, not 26 or 27 like when the recent top deals signed. But sure. 10 years 375, 10 years 380...

I'd go up and get him signed and then the white sox will have a 4 year window with a very competitive offense and good potential to field a decent pitching staff.

And if it fails, well, we trade him along with everyone and RH starts ole rebuild number 3 (which he will say is number 2).

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, mqr said:

I think the MUCH more likely scenario is trade for him, lose the division anyway, have him walk the next off season, and regret giving up whoever it is. 

Well you can't lose if you don't play I guess.  

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

I think the MUCH more likely scenario is trade for him, lose the division anyway, have him walk the next off season, and regret giving up whoever it is. 

That sucks.

Now let's all dream of our division winning juggernauts with Kole Calhoun in RF and salary space galore to sign up to 3 corey dickersons.

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I know the Red Sox aren't going to trade one of the best players in the game for a bunch of garbage.  Let's also remember there are a bunch of other clubs that would also like Mookie in their lineup, so you have to outbid them.  

So good luck, buddy.

If he's a one year rental nobody will be paying more than a two back end top 100 guys like two B+ types + filler.  Unfortunately Chicago's MiLB is as usual back to absolute shit after the top guys graduate out this year.   Madrigal + a random C+ type might be enough.

Edited November 18, 2019 by chitownsportsfan

[mqr]

You can also kiss signing a TORish pitcher good bye if your paying Mookie 28 million dollars in 2020

[bmags]

Just now, mqr said:

You can also kiss signing a TORish pitcher good bye if your paying Mookie 28 million dollars in 2020

If our payroll is truly capped at 120 million you guys can do that already.

 

[Southwest Sider]

I mean I imagine if we did trade for Betts that the Sox would be aggressive in trying to get him signed long term. That year or so of exclusive negotiation time is worth something since you don't compete with everyone else. 

Indeed, it's risky because there's a damn good chance he wouldn't sign. But it is bold.

[chitownsportsfan]

5 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I mean I imagine if we did trade for Betts that the Sox would be aggressive in trying to get him signed long term. That year or so of exclusive negotiation time is worth something since you don't compete with everyone else. 

Indeed, it's risky because there's a damn good chance he wouldn't sign. But it is bold.

Personally I'd rather be bold then try and incrementally get better through internal improvement.  If being bold shortens the window of contention by a couple years but leads to a better chance of a title in 2020-22 that's something they need to consider.

[mqr]

5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Personally I'd rather be bold then try and incrementally get better through internal improvement.  If being bold shortens the window of contention by a couple years but leads to a better chance of a title in 2020-22 that's something they need to consider.

Signing Mookie Betts after not trading for him is the absolute best thing you can do to win a title in 21 or 22, trading for Mookie Betts and not signing is pretty close to the worst. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by mqr

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I mean I imagine if we did trade for Betts that the Sox would be aggressive in trying to get him signed long term. That year or so of exclusive negotiation time is worth something since you don't compete with everyone else. 

Indeed, it's risky because there's a damn good chance he wouldn't sign. But it is bold.

Correct: likelihood sox do this and sign a great player - very low

Odds that if they do trade for betts it signals they are going to be aggressive to re-sign: much higher than if they go into next FA period having not had him.

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Just now, mqr said:

Signing Mookie Betts after not trading for him is the absolute best thing you can do to win a title in 21 or 22, trading for Mookie Betts and not signing is pretty close to the worst. 

well can't argue with tautologies!