SonofaRoache Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Not even sure what this means. It's not like the fans make any of the decisions. What I mean is fans are gonna be very vocal about displeasure if we suspect less than full effort. The Sox felt it in March and had to clear the air and make statements several times about the fans and media perceptions. It will get much worse. So no, the fans can't spend the money but they can rage to the point this front office has to answer for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: There's literally no reason to believe this isn't true. They had multiple opportunities from 2000-2008 to put the team over the top and win more than one title and they never did it. But they've never been in this position before. So much talent and so much payroll flexibility at the same time. Unless you count last winter. But we all knew they weren't quite ready to compete a year ago. They are ready now with the right moves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sarava said: But they've never been in this position before. So much talent and so much payroll flexibility at the same time. Unless you count last winter. But we all knew they weren't quite ready to compete a year ago. They are ready now with the right moves. The flexibility goes away in 2021 though when guys start hitting arbitration. I'd feel a lot better if they could get Moncada and Giolito to sign extensions this winter, but idk how realistic that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sarava said: But they've never been in this position before. So much talent and so much payroll flexibility at the same time. Unless you count last winter. But we all knew they weren't quite ready to compete a year ago. They are ready now with the right moves. In 2001 they had a cheap team with the #1 farm system in baseball and didn't do anything noteworthy. One of my favorite(sarcasm) White Sox things that they do is trade for a star player during their walk year. Wells and Colon fit this. They like to trade for 1 year rentals a lot. Hopefully they learned from Samardzija. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, SonofaRoache said: What I mean is fans are gonna be very vocal about displeasure if we suspect less than full effort. The Sox felt it in March and had to clear the air and make statements several times about the fans and media perceptions. It will get much worse. So no, the fans can't spend the money but they can rage to the point this front office has to answer for it. Sorry but raging fans means squat to the Sox. Hahn and Cooper in season both made disparaging remarks about Sox fans negativity when they should be saying positive things about the fans even if they have to lie through their teeth to say it. Hahn need to put a gag order on saying bad things about the fans. Praise the fans , kiss their ass, be sensible about it instead of chastising them. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: There's literally no reason to believe this isn't true. They had multiple opportunities from 2000-2008 to put the team over the top and win more than one title and they never did it. Again, Reinsdorf will not take a loss under any circumstance. He spends what the projected revenue streams will allow and not a dollar more. That doesn’t mean he’s purposely shooting for second place finishes, it just means he won’t go into the red to push a team over the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: The flexibility goes away in 2021 though when guys start hitting arbitration. I'd feel a lot better if they could get Moncada and Giolito to sign extensions this winter, but idk how realistic that is. Eh, that's just a small part that goes away then. It's the first year of arb for a few guys. Its not like they'll be getting 20 mil per. Oh and LOL - I see you posted the same thing at HF, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Sorry but raging fans means squat to the Sox. Hahn and Cooper in season both made disparaging remarks about Sox fans negativity when they should be saying positive things about the fans even if they have to lie through their teeth to say it. Hahn need to put a gag order on saying bad things about the fans. Praise the fans , kiss their ass, be sensible about it instead of chastising them. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. There is no FO that treats its customers like that in sports other than the Sox. I don't get why they feel the need to insult the fanbase to the media. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: In 2001 they had a cheap team with the #1 farm system in baseball and didn't do anything noteworthy. One of my favorite(sarcasm) White Sox things that they do is trade for a star player during their walk year. Wells and Colon fit this. They like to trade for 1 year rentals a lot. Hopefully they learned from Samardzija. The Shark trade looks bad now. At the time, the whole country declared the Sox the winner of the winter meetings that year. While I'll hope for better results, that's the exact kind of aggressiveness I'm hoping to see this winter. I don't want them settling for average players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: There is no FO that treats it's customers like that in sports other than the Sox. I don't get why they feel the need to insult the fanbase to the media. I cannot say that. I would have to follow every team in a lot of sports so I can't use that broad stroke on my canvas . I just know it's rather pointless to criticize fans in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: There is no FO that treats it's customers like that in sports other than the Sox. I don't get why they feel the need to insult the fanbase to the media. It is bizarre to hear some of these things. They've been given more fan support than they've earned, to be frank about it. You'd think they would be grateful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: There's literally no reason to believe this isn't true. They had multiple opportunities from 2000-2008 to put the team over the top and win more than one title and they never did it. This is totally false. Just look at the transition from 2005-2006. We won it all and then proceeded to upgrade Orlando Hernandez into Javier Vazquez and Carl Everett into Jim Thome. Our only downgrade was replacing Rowand in CF with a failed prospect. AFAIC, that counts as trying to to put them over the top. It’s not JR’s fault that our four aces from 2005 more or less sucked in 2006, or that the entire bullpen stunk in 2006 besides Thornton. From an ownership perspective, what more could you have wanted? They got the players, and the players blew it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sarava said: The Shark trade looks bad now. At the time, the whole country declared the Sox the winner of the winter meetings that year. While I'll hope for better results, that's the exact kind of aggressiveness I'm hoping to see this winter. I don't want them settling for average players. Yea we would have to pull that thread to see what we all thought. I do remember that the talk of extending Samardzija was rampant here . I don't remember if the board generally liked the trade or not. I don't even remember my own opinion on it except I thought the extension talk was ridiculous . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, The Sir said: This is totally false. Just look at the transition from 2005-2006. We won it all and then proceeded to upgrade Orlando Hernandez into Javier Vazquez and Carl Everett into Jim Thome. Our only downgrade was replacing Rowand in CF with a failed prospect. AFAIC, that counts as trying to to put them over the top. It’s not JR’s fault that our four aces from 2005 more or less sucked in 2006, or that the entire bullpen stunk in 2006 besides Thornton. From an ownership perspective, what more could you have wanted? They got the players, and the players blew it. That is the one exception, and you don't get a free pass coming off of a WS. Everyone's arm fell off that year. Garcia showed up to ST throwing 86 mph. Contreras and Buehrle were good in the first half, and sucked in the 2nd half. They still haven't recovered in CF from trading Rowand, but nobody complained about giving Anderson a chance. Garland went back to being Garland. If the pitching would have held up they would have won 100 games that year but whatever. When it was obvious that Anderson was failing they could have gone and grabbed a CF and Bullpen help. I'm done litigating the 2006 Sox. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 35 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Sorry but raging fans means squat to the Sox. Hahn and Cooper in season both made disparaging remarks about Sox fans negativity when they should be saying positive things about the fans even if they have to lie through their teeth to say it. Hahn need to put a gag order on saying bad things about the fans. Praise the fans , kiss their ass, be sensible about it instead of chastising them. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The FO came out several times and had to address the fans concerns though. They made those comments to discourage fans from speaking bad about them. Ny point is made clear by the fact that Hahn addressed angry fans multiple times. Of course they are gonna bad mouth negative fans because they don't want the truth about their failures spreading to the casual fan and being picked up nationally. That's why stores accommodate and reward customers who complain, it is to prevent them from leaving bad reviews and telling people they know to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 If this is true, which it probably is - how many times have the Sox finished second since 2005? Sounds like Jerry sucks at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 So does the premise of this thread mean the Sox are going after Cole or not? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 This story is going to become a big issue in the Chicago media next week, especially with Bears having a bye week. Who knows, maybe it forces the Sox to spend more money this offseason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, HoosierSox said: When was the last time the Sox finished in 2nd place. If that's what he's trying to do he's failing at that. Bingo. JR wants to win, but only on his terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: There is zero doubt in my mind that Jerry wants to win, but he’s risk adverse and does not want to take a loss under any circumstance. Our payrolls have always been middle of the pack or better and on a percentage of revenue basis we’re probably amongst the highest. He just won’t spend before that revenue is in place to offset those costs and he doesn’t like long-term deals (especially for pitchers) because of the risk of wasted or dead money. It’s really that simply IMO. This is exactly right. JR plays the long game, where financial stability is paramount. We’d all love his way of doing business if he owned a widget factory and we were shareholders. But it doesn’t translate so well to the owner-fan dynamic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 This sounds more like what Bill Wirtz would have said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) Jerry Reinsdorf is 83 years old and still runs the day-to-day operations. Why in the hell would he bother to do that if his interest was limited to putting an 85-win team on the field to maximize profits? If he wasn’t interested in winning, he’d sell the franchise for hundreds of millions in profits tomorrow, or hire an executive to run the day-to-day operations while he drinks pina coladas on the beach in Miami. Edited October 5, 2019 by Black_Jack29 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Black_Jack29 said: Jerry Reinsdorf is 83 years old and still runs the day-to-day operations. Why in the hell would he bother to do that if his interest was limited to putting an 85-win team on the field to maximize profits? If he wasn’t interested in winning, he’d sell the franchise for hundreds of millions in profits tomorrow, or hire an executive to run the day-to-day operations while he drinks pina coladas on the beach in Miami. Probably because owning a baseball team filled with a bunch of longtime buddies is fun as hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 How does one even "aim to build a second place team?" He probably meant fans are most happy with ownership when their team is on the cusp and said it in a funny manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, bmags said: Probably because owning a baseball team filled with a bunch of longtime buddies is fun as hell. It’s also exhausting. Most people aren’t into long work weeks in their mid-80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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