lasttriptotulsa Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Because maybe I'm not so negative and I'm willing to give JR the benefit of the doubt for the time being. The guy who said this is a known scumbag, so it's possible that he's talking out of his ass. I'm not waiting forever. I'm giving him a couple more offseasons to prove this guy wrong. Who knows? Maybe this will motivate JR to open his wallet for once. I won't deny that it was an extremely plausible accusation. I left the Hawks for 7 years when Dollar Bill traded Roenick and Belfour, I've done it before and I'm not afraid to do it again. If I leave, I'll be back when ownership changes hands. See ya. 3 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tony said: Which would be all fine and good...except in this thread you called everyone sheep who didn’t believe this report, and that everything makes sense now, and those that didn’t believe it were just ignoring the truth. So sort of hard to take you at your word there... It made a lot of sense when it was posted. Legit criticism. I'll take the heat for that one. I didn't know how much of a scumbag the guy that said this was, and that he's tried to make a lot of people in baseball look bad since he left the Marlins. That's on me. It doesn't change the plausibility of this accusation. There's no way to know for sure, so I guess people should just go on like it never happened. The Sox have a wonderful core of players in place, and nobody should give any passes if they screw this up. There is a strong possibility that this is a false accusation, however that does not change the plausibility of it. If you look back at 2000-2016, it looks really bad for JR at the very least, and if you have your tin foil hat on, it is indicting at worst. I looked at it and assumed the worst case scenario. I tend to do that way too much. I tend to be very gullible, so I assume the worst out of people until proven otherwise rather than the opposite. It's a way that I protect myself from being taken advantage of. Apologies. Edited October 5, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) The White Sox average finish since Jerry has owned the team, 2.92. They have also finished second in the division 11 times. Which is more times than they have finished in any other place. They have finished 3rd 10 times. They have finished first 6 times. They have finished 4th 6 times. They have finished 5th 5 times. Never finished 6th, and once finished 7th. By the way, 5 of the 4th place finishes are the last 6 years. Edited October 5, 2019 by turnin' two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 I think I've made a fool of myself in this thread and a couple other ones. I'm taking a break from posting here until the Sox make their first move of the winter. I need to re-evaluate my posting habits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I think I've made a fool of myself in this thread and a couple other ones. I'm taking a break from posting here until the Sox make their first move of the winter. I need to re-evaluate my posting habits. Rinse and repeat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NWINFan Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, turnin' two said: she White Sox average finish since Jerry has owned the team, 2.92. They have also finished second in the division 11 times. Which is more times than they have finished in any other place. They have finished 3rd 10 times. They have finished first 6 times. They have finished 4th 6 times. They have finished 5th 5 times. Never finished 6th, and once finished 7th. By the way, 5 of the 4th place finishes are the last 6 years. The 11 second place finishes sounds good, but three times they had losing records and one time was dead even at 81-81. Another time they finished 14 1/2 games out and another were at 9 games out, so they weren't too close there. I don't know if you're counting 1994 as a first place finish because I don't. Safe to say JR has had his successes and failures. All the more reason to have an active off season this year and eventually not be satisfied with a wild card. Edited October 5, 2019 by NWINFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: The overwhelming evidence is 2000-2008. They had multiple opportunities to put those teams over the top and never did it. Idk how old you are, but what they did to the 2003 team was quite frankly intentional sabotage. With the exception of 05-06, they were always a couple pitchers or bats short, and continually refused to plug holes. 2001-04 was the poster child for this behavior. They never went into the season without glaring weaknesses, and always seemed to win 81-88 games. They were always just good enough to fall short. The evidence isn't in the reporting, but the behavior of the team over the 2000s and into the early 2010s before it all crashed in 2013. Their 2014-15 offseason is more evidence that this is what they planned to do, but it didn't work as well as they had hoped. This entire century through 2016 is enough evidence for you to be convinced. It's not only about what was said. It's about what was said AND what they did from 2000-2016. That combination should be enough to convince everyone. Actually it's more about the fact that what they did always made no sense until you hear this quote. Then it makes a lot more sense. How the Sox ran the team from 2000-2016 backs up this quote. If how they ran the team didn't back this up, I probably would be as dismissive as you guys are of the quote. But how the team has been run for the better part of two decades backs it up. A lot of illogical decisions they made suddenly become logical. Maybe there just aren't enough people who truly remember 2001-04 like I do. I'm sure everyone remembers 2011-12, and 15-16 and that fits the bill as well. This can all be explained by Jerry not putting more money into the team than projected revenue will allow. Look at our payrolls after we won the World Series and fan attendance spiked. 4th in 2006, 5th in 2007, & 5th in 2008. Our attendance was far away the largest it had ever been during that period since the strike and our payroll reflected that. It’s really that straight forward no matter how badly you want to spin this into something malicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 53 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I didn't believe that until today. I mostly believed what CWS and The Sir believed, that JR wouldn't go into the red for a season or two and that he had to at least come out slightly ahead, as well as being incredibly risk-averse with contracts. Now, I'm not so sure. I don't want to believe this is true. Reinsdorf had to release a statement denying that he ever said this, and that he actually wants to win. Take that for what it's worth. Even if it is true, it isn't like he'd publicly admit it. Reinsdorf released a statement where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcq Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 hours ago, NWINFan said: I am no White Sox insider, and so I don't have a real idea of what Jerry Reinsdorf truly thinks. However, the long-held perception, at least by many, is that winning is not the main thing with him. That is why this rebuild is so important. The franchise, in the long run, must show it is serious about building and maintaining a contending team. If this rebuild leads to only one or two winning seasons, that will damage the credibility of the organization in a large way. Hard core fans are supporting the rebuild and the Sox can't afford to lose them. In a relative sense, they have few hard core fans left. It has now been 100 years since the Black Sox scandal and the team never fully recovered. It is time that it does. Jerry is a cost-control guy who wants to win. If you look at Theo and Dombrowski you know that spending is a double-edged sword. Just my take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, pcq said: Jerry is a cost-control guy who wants to win. If you look at Theo and Dombrowski you know that spending is a double-edged sword. Just my take. If we look at guys who are successful with multiple franchises, we'd know spending is a double edged sword? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 58 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I 100% believed that the owner wanted to win until today. Then suddenly things have changed. I'm not 100% on the dark side yet but I'm considering it because the way they ran the Sox for the better part of two decades backs up what that guy from the Marlins said. I don't know what to think right now. This is a plausible accusation. I think I'm going to wait it out over the next few years and make Jerry prove this guy wrong. I pray to god if I’m ever on trial that you’re not part of the jury. All it takes is one claim from some douchebag for you to be 100% convinced of something. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I'm with ya about this. I mean, this does seem a little out of character. However, it is somewhat plausible when you have to compete withe the Yankees and Red Sox just to get to the World Series. I posted this thread because I thought the accusation should be discussed, and its plausibility. Lol dude, you told us we were all stupid for not believing this and that the evidence was completely foolproof. Like do you even think before you post or are you just straight gun-slinging 24/7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Tony said: Which would be all fine and good...except in this thread you called everyone sheep who didn’t believe this report, and that everything makes sense now, and those that didn’t believe it were just ignoring the truth. So sort of hard to take you at your word there... Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted October 5, 2019 Author Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Lol dude, you told us we were all stupid for not believing this and that the evidence was completely foolproof. Like do you even think before you post or are you just straight gun-slinging 24/7? I've been gunslinging way too much lately. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) Jerry can make all the denial statements he wants, the quote fits his style since he owned the team. Please sell tired of you running team in Chicago like a small market city. Edited October 5, 2019 by Soxfest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: I think I've made a fool of myself in this thread and a couple other ones. I'm taking a break from posting here until the Sox make their first move of the winter. I need to re-evaluate my posting habits. I enjoy your posts. Don't always agree but that's not a requirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: I think I've made a fool of myself in this thread and a couple other ones. I'm taking a break from posting here until the Sox make their first move of the winter. I need to re-evaluate my posting habits. It's all good homie. Just take a short breather and come back when you're ready. I enjoy your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 @Jack Parkman take a look at the following chart. This is plotting our MLB payroll ranks against our attendance. For the attendance figures I'm using 70% of PY and 30% of CY as my proxy as it gave the highest r2. As you'll see below, about 2/3 of the payroll rank variation can be explained by the attendance figure I'm using, which makes complete fucking sense. Reinsdorf spends when the money is coming in and not before (which is also why PY attendance has a higher weight). Jerry is risk adverse and rarely goes out & invests in the team in hopes of driving fan interest (which I personally think is dumb), but once fans start showing up he most definitely reinvests in the team. If he was really trying to string us all along with 2nd place finishes to maximize profits (still no idea how that makes any sense), he'd be pocketing far more of this money. Instead, he puts most of it back into the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofaRoache Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: @Jack Parkman take a look at the following chart. This is plotting our MLB payroll ranks against our attendance. For the attendance figures I'm using 70% of PY and 30% of CY as my proxy as it gave the highest r2. As you'll see below, about 2/3 of the payroll rank variation can be explained by the attendance figure I'm using, which makes complete fucking sense. Reinsdorf spends when the money is coming in and not before (which is also why PY attendance has a higher weight). Jerry is risk adverse and rarely goes out & invests in the team in hopes of driving fan interest (which I personally think is dumb), but once fans start showing up he most definitely reinvests in the team. If he was really trying to string us all along with 2nd place finishes to maximize profits (still no idea how that makes any sense), he'd be pocketing far more of this money. Instead, he puts most of it back into the team. Bulls attendance numbers are between 1st and 4th most years. Yet they still suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 52 minutes ago, Soxfest said: Jerry can make all the denial statements he wants, the quote fits his style since he owned the team. Please sell tired of you running team in Chicago like a small market city. Small market team? From 2000 to 2016 our average attendance rank was 13th and from 2006 to 2013 it was ~7th. I don't even like Jerry as an owner, but my god some of you guys are completely out of touch with reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said: Bulls attendance numbers are between 1st and 4th most years. Yet they still suck. Not sure I follow. Reinsdorf pretty much spends against the cap every year except when they’re rebuilding. And my post had nothing about being good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Jack29 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 2 hours ago, poppysox said: Probably because some people like to think the worse of people. Jerry seems like a very loyal and caring boss...probably to a fault when dumping a poor performer or two. I imagine there are more knowledgeable baseball people that he could have surrounded himself with but feels comfortable with KW and RH as people he trusts and why not...he owns the club. JR has always struck me as prudent rather than cheap. Indeed. A former girlfriend of a friend of mine worked in the Sox front office (payroll) in the late '90s and early 2000's. She described Reinsdorf as "grandfatherly" and a "good boss." One can criticize him for many things, but not the way that he treats his employees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) What A 5 star fraud. What need do we have of further witness ? He doesn't remember. Yeah right. Like one of my best friends used to say... "A lie don't live forever". Edited October 6, 2019 by GradMc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thad Bosley Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 27 minutes ago, Black_Jack29 said: Indeed. A former girlfriend of a friend of mine worked in the Sox front office (payroll) in the late '90s and early 2000's. She described Reinsdorf as "grandfatherly" and a "good boss." One can criticize him for many things, but not the way that he treats his employees. And a fan who doesn’t work for the man cares about this...why? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GradMc Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: What a dumb thread. No Jerry it isn't. You have FINALLY been disrobed. And you treat Bulls fans even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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