Rumor: Reinsdorf aims to build second place teams

[Jerksticks]

It’s just sports

[soxfan49]

15 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

It made a lot of sense when it was posted. Legit criticism. I'll take the heat for that one. I didn't know how much of a scumbag the guy that said this was, and that he's tried to make a lot of people in baseball look bad since he left the Marlins. That's on me. It doesn't change the plausibility of this accusation. There's no way to know for sure, so I guess people should just go on like it never happened. 

The Sox have a wonderful core of players in place, and nobody should give any passes if they screw this up. 

There is a strong possibility that this is a false accusation, however that does not change the plausibility of it. If you look back at 2000-2016, it looks really bad for JR at the very least, and if you have your tin foil hat on, it is indicting at worst. I looked at it and assumed the worst case scenario. I tend to do that way too much. 

I tend to be very gullible, so I assume the worst out of people until proven otherwise rather than the opposite. It's a way that I protect myself from being taken advantage of. Apologies. 

It only took 2 hours ladies and gentlemen! He has already backed off. I called it 18 hours ago: "If not sooner, he'll definitely apologize for such an outburst by next April and then when someone reminds him of it, he'll say "I already said I was way out of line with that. I have autism and sometimes this happens." It's too easy."

Edited October 6, 2019 by soxfan49

[Moan4Yoan]

Quite frankly, Jerry and company sucked before this rumor came out and they still suck.  This hasn’t changed anything.  The Sox would still be best served if Jerry sold.

[Hatchetman]

If that was the goal he’s failed miserably. In the weakest division in baseball no less.

[SonofaRoache]

The first sign of a blatant lie is, "I have no recollection". 

[GradMc]

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

We will see how serious this team is about winning this off season.  Tanking should be over.

Agree.

There will no denying his intentions by the time Spring Training rolls around.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by GradMc

[GradMc]

3 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The first sign of a blatant lie is, "I have no 

So VERY true.

[GradMc]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

It only took 2 hours ladies and gentlemen! He has already backed off. I called it 18 hours ago: "If not sooner, he'll definitely apologize for such an outburst by next April and then when someone reminds him of it, he'll say "I already said I was way out of line with that. I have autism and sometimes this happens." It's too easy."

He did the same thing when he infuriated Bulls fans by saying he'd trade all his Bulls Championships for one World Series Championship.

First he denied it then he admitted it was a stupid thing to say. 

But whatever type of mambo he did in 2005 with that one year revival of Damn Yankees, it must have included all past and future Bulls Championships because that team is light years from returning to the Finals

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by GradMc

[soxfan49]

8 minutes ago, GradMc said:

He did the same thing when he infuriated Bulls fans by saying he'd trade all his Bulls Championships for one World Series Championship.

First he denied it then he admitted it was a stupid thing to say. 

But whatever type of mambo he did in 2005 with that one year revival of Damn Yankees, it must have included all past and future Bulls Championships because that team is light years from returning to the Finals

 

I'm talking about Jack Parkman, dude.

[Thad Bosley]

Thank you, Mr. Samson, for letting loose on that podcast with that little exchange you had with Mr. Reinsdorf several years ago.

Whatever the context was with what Reinsdorf purportedly said isn’t important.  What is important for Sox fans is the timing of the revelation, right before this very important, upcoming offseason.  

The fact Reinsdorf felt compelled to put out a public statement in response to all of this should go a long way towards the owner and front office ensuring this offseason doesn’t end up as disappointing as the last one.  

Things just got more interesting!

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Thad Bosley said:

Thank you, Mr. Samson, for letting loose on that podcast with that little exchange you had with Mr. Reinsdorf several years ago.

Whatever the context was with what Reinsdorf purportedly said isn’t important.  What is important for Sox fans is the timing of the revelation, right before this very important, upcoming offseason.  

The fact Reinsdorf felt compelled to put out a public statement in response to all of this should go a long way towards the owner and front office ensuring this offseason doesn’t end up as disappointing as the last one.  

Things just got more interesting!

I’m not sure I follow.  Are you suggesting Reinsdor is going to spend more in some attempt to prove this claim wrong?

[Thad Bosley]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m not sure I follow.  Are you suggesting Reinsdor is going to spend more in some attempt to prove this claim wrong?

Rightly or wrongly, Samson’s revelation called into public view Reinsdorf’s commitment to winning, enough that Reinsdorf felt the need to publicly respond to the claim.  

You combine the unavoidable negative stigma of Samson’s statement with the lingering skepticism of the fan base from what looked like a questionable commitment to winning after the last offseason, and I think we should have an owner and front office at least a tad more inclined to make sure this offseason’s results are far more successful than last year’s.  

[Blackout Friday]

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

The first sign of a blatant lie is, "I have no recollection". 

This 100%. I believe the rumor more now than I did before.

[Dick Allen]

I bet you he said it, but it probably was tongue in cheek.BTW, losing pays. Since RH has been GM, the team has been awful, but their bank account, another story. Coming into this season, which by all accounts was a big money manner, , according to Forbes numbers a cumulative $200 million profit.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829581/chicago-white-sox-operating-income/

[caulfield12]

I’m not sure which is worse, being a Twins’ fan and losing to the Yankees 11 times in a row in the post-season...and something like 15 consecutive post-season losses, or the irrelevance of being a White Sox fan today and seeing that purported JR quote and realizing the odds of getting past Houston, the Yankees or just our own division is maybe 3-5% at best.  

I mean, we’re not even close to the Indians, Twins, Rays and A’s in a major market with the Cubs’ so-called dynasty self-immolating itself (we just gave Ricketts a 2-3 week window away from media criticism.)

The further irony is those Samson-led Marlins quickly winning two World Series championships over the course of seven seasons...something it took the White Sox 88 years to accomplish.

Meanwhile, Hahn continues to lead the 2010’s in “won the MLB offseason” yet record the worst winning percentage as a GM (5+ years of tenure) in modern history.

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by caulfield12

[ottawa_sox]

23 hours ago, wegner said:

This topic got me wondering about 2nd place finishes for the White Sox and I looked back in the 1950's.

In 154 game seasons, the Sox won 94 games in 1954...91 games in 1955...85 games in 1956...90 games in 1957...82 games in 1958

They won 94 games in 1959 to make it to the World Series.  

Since I was not born until the mid 1960's, I wonder what it felt like to root for teams that were good enough to win quite a few games but always fall short of the Yankees and Indians mostly?

 

23 hours ago, NWINFan said:

It was quite frustrating. The White Sox had winning teams from 1951-67, but never had superstars. The Mantles and Killerbrews were on other teams. And Comiskey Park was big and expansive and not a homer hitters park, and the team never really was explosive. Finally, things bottomed out when they lost the last five games during a heated 1967 pennant race because their offense was exposed for what it was-terrible. Even though the 1967 team contended, it was labeled as "boring." They lost the first 10 in 1968 and it has been a Cubs town ever since. 

I was 8 in '59.  Through rose coloured childhood glasses it certainly was frustrating, mainly because they pulled it off in '59.  And they had a true home field advantage.  Long, wet infield grass,  great starting ground ball pitchers, incentivized by 20 ground ball out suits (at least for 1/2 year until they were awarded too many).  Expansive outfield manned by speedy outfielders.  And could those Sox ever bunt (oh for the goodle days!!!!).  No such thing as blowouts.  They were built to win close games.  

I still tend to have unrealistic expectations, each year, come day 1.  Child indoctrination will do that.

[Balta1701]

8 hours ago, GreenSox said:

If this is true, then it makes Hahn's performance as GM even more indefensible.   He should have been all over analytics from the start and never part with young players with potential for 2 years of veteran salve.   He should be all over the July trade deadline.  He should have surrounded himself with talent evaluators and prioritized development.  Instead, he just joined the JR friends and family party.

This is another case of people working way too hard to avoid blaming Rick Hahn for Rick Hahn's own decisions.

Look, I don't know if this Reinsdorf quote is accurate or not, but it's long been clear that Reinsdorf runs his franchise where winning is but one of several things he cares about, and he would rather lose games and seasons than change the way he wants to run his team. He would not go over-slot on the draft when other franchises were using that to their advantage, he would not spend big money internationally when other teams were using that as a big advantage, he wouldn't even spend the international money this season even though they were rebuilding, had an incredibly low overall payroll, and had 2 years in the penalty box where they could have spent the time scouting and preparing for this signing period. Adding players that might someday help them build a winning team was so far down on JR's priority list that that they traded away their international signing space to a team that did care more about adding a player and made that other team take on Jones's contract in the process. They couldn't be more clear about it if they wrote a book about things they care about more than winning. This is why Wilder was able to successfully conduct his fraud for so long - he was a confidence man and once you have JR's confidence you're set for life. 

Rick Hahn is not some innocent bystander in this behavior. He came up through this system, tolerated it for years. He got the job because whatever priorities JR has other than winning - Rick Hahn either shares those or is willing to look the other way. If JR wants to run his franchise by hiring his buddies so that they can sit around behind closed doors saying "Hey, look at me! I'm Mr. So-And-So D*ck! I've got such-and-such for a penis", Rick Hahn has his job because that's the setting he wants to be in too. RH got his job because he's not going to rock the boat, he's going to go along with his owner's priorities, because they're his priorities too. Rick Hahn is there because he's one of the buddies and he knows his job is to surround JR with additional buddies.

[bmags]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This is another case of people working way too hard to avoid blaming Rick Hahn for Rick Hahn's own decisions.

Look, I don't know if this Reinsdorf quote is accurate or not, but it's long been clear that Reinsdorf runs his franchise where winning is but one of several things he cares about, and he would rather lose games and seasons than change the way he wants to run his team. He would not go over-slot on the draft when other franchises were using that to their advantage, he would not spend big money internationally when other teams were using that as a big advantage, he wouldn't even spend the international money this season even though they were rebuilding, had an incredibly low overall payroll, and had 2 years in the penalty box where they could have spent the time scouting and preparing for this signing period. Adding players that might someday help them build a winning team was so far down on JR's priority list that that they traded away their international signing space to a team that did care more about adding a player and made that other team take on Jones's contract in the process. They couldn't be more clear about it if they wrote a book about things they care about more than winning. This is why Wilder was able to successfully conduct his fraud for so long - he was a confidence man and once you have JR's confidence you're set for life. 

Rick Hahn is not some innocent bystander in this behavior. He came up through this system, tolerated it for years. He got the job because whatever priorities JR has other than winning - Rick Hahn either shares those or is willing to look the other way. If JR wants to run his franchise by hiring his buddies so that they can sit around behind closed doors saying "Hey, look at me! I'm Mr. So-And-So D*ck! I've got such-and-such for a penis", Rick Hahn has his job because that's the setting he wants to be in too. RH got his job because he's not going to rock the boat, he's going to go along with his owner's priorities, because they're his priorities too. Rick Hahn is there because he's one of the buddies and he knows his job is to surround JR with additional buddies.

Guessing you just didn’t expect people to get to the third paragraph 

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Guessing you just didn’t expect people to get to the third paragraph 

That's a buried pop culture reference. 

[Chicago White Sox]

15 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

he wouldn't even spend the international money this season even though they were rebuilding, had an incredibly low overall payroll, and had 2 years in the penalty box where they could have spent the time scouting and preparing for this signing period. Adding players that might someday help them build a winning team was so far down on JR's priority list that that they traded away their international signing space to a team that did care more about adding a player and made that other team take on Jones's contract in the process. They couldn't be more clear about it if they wrote a book about things they care about more than winning. This is why Wilder was able to successfully conduct his fraud for so long - he was a confidence man and once you have JR's confidence you're set for life.

You had some good points until this, where you are drawing some massive conclusions, especially with the Wilder stuff.  If you think Jerry spends much time on a typical LatAm amateur signing you are completely off base.  KW is completely to blame for Wilder.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Chicago White Sox

[poppysox]

20 minutes ago, ottawa_sox said:

 

I was 8 in '59.  Through rose coloured childhood glasses it certainly was frustrating, mainly because they pulled it off in '59.  And they had a true home field advantage.  Long, wet infield grass,  great starting ground ball pitchers, incentivized by 20 ground ball out suits (at least for 1/2 year until they were awarded too many).  Expansive outfield manned by speedy outfielders.  And could those Sox ever bunt (oh for the goodle days!!!!).  No such thing as blowouts.  They were built to win close games.  

I still tend to have unrealistic expectations, each year, come day 1.  Child indoctrination will do that.

That was when a Yankee vs White Sox series in Chicago was can't miss baseball.  A Sunday doubleheader between those two teams was sheer bliss.  Good memories.

[bmags]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You had some good points until this, where you are drawing some massive conclusions, especially with the Wilder stuff.  If you think Jerry spends much time on a typical LatAm amateur signing you are completely off base.  KW is completely to blame for Wilder.

I would expect him to ask why it has been so bad for 20 years.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You had some good points until this, where you are drawing some massive conclusions, especially with the Wilder stuff.  If you think Jerry spends much time on a typical LatAm amateur signing you are completely off base.

Of course he doesn't spend individual time on it, but it's 100% clear that given the choice between a small but nonzero chance at finding the next Vlad Jr. or Tatis Jr. and saving $1 million, they'd rather save the money. That's the organization reflecting the GMs priorities and the GM reflecting the owner's priorities. You would never see Theo Epstein doing something like that and just letting a way to add players go to waste. Rick Hahn is ok with that...and that's why he has his job. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Of course he doesn't spend individual time on it, but it's 100% clear that given the choice between a small but nonzero chance at finding the next Vlad Jr. or Tatis Jr. and saving $1 million, they'd rather save the money. That's the organization reflecting the GMs priorities and the GM reflecting the owner's priorities. You would never see Theo Epstein doing something like that and just letting a way to add players go to waste. Rick Hahn is ok with that...and that's why he has his job. 

You’re missing my point.  You’re making the assumption that Reinsdorf pushed for them not to spend that money.  I honestly don’t think that’s the case and believe it’s more likely they somehow botched the recruiting process when they were in the penalty box.  They never had a problem spending this money beforehand.  Just find it odd they go with an older Cuban prospect and not much else when they finally get out of the box.  When they say “Paddy didn’t like any of the available guys” as the reason to they didn’t sign anyone else, it seems like the quality prospects had all paired up with other teams.  I really think our organization simply fucked up somehow.

[Chicago White Sox]

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

I would expect him to ask why it has been so bad for 20 years.

Wilder wasn’t really here that long and was committing fraud to help hype up his LatAm signings.  Hard to blame the Chairman for that.  It took us years to repair the damage that was done and Paddy has gradually improved the function, but at the end of the day Jerry is going to play by his rules and he never liked going over slot and committing a lot of money in this area.  But again, my point was on Wilder, not the shitshow our LatAm function has been for years.