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When people say the Sox deserve no credit for trading stars....


Look at Ray Ray Run

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4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I point to this trade to remind them that they certainly deserve credit for acquiring the right pieces:

Pirates acquire: Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, and Jason Martin

Astros acquire: Gerrit Cole

Ouch

And then they run out and get Chris Archer, trading Glasnow and Meadows. Bad times for Pirates fans.

The issue with the Sox has never been trades, its drafting and developing talent, and also FA acquisitions. They've been awful for quite a while.

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3 minutes ago, daggins said:

And then they run out and get Chris Archer, trading Glasnow and Meadows. Bad times for Pirates fans.

The issue with the Sox has never been trades, its drafting and developing talent, and also FA acquisitions. They've been awful for quite a while.

Yes, that trade was even worse. Amazing honestly. 

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33 minutes ago, daggins said:

And then they run out and get Chris Archer, trading Glasnow and Meadows. Bad times for Pirates fans.

The issue with the Sox has never been trades, its drafting and developing talent, and also FA acquisitions. They've been awful for quite a while.

WTF?

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1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I point to this trade to remind them that they certainly deserve credit for acquiring the right pieces:

Pirates acquire: Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, and Jason Martin

Astros acquire: Gerrit Cole

Ouch

They also waited too long to trade him. Just terrible process but also awful approach to some very talented pitchers.

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6 minutes ago, daggins said:

The thread is specifically about trading stars...

They did very well on that end.

Yes, exactly this. It's actually difficult to get equal talent for stars in baseball because you take on a lot of higher risk assets. The Sox did great with all three of their big packages.

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56 minutes ago, daggins said:

The thread is specifically about trading stars...

They did very well on that end.

So you're telling us this is just about the trades that jump started the rebuild ? Because there doesn't seem to be any disputing that but plenty to dispute in other trades,

I mean great, pat the FO on the back all you want for picking some of the top talents from many many lists that tell you the top talent. But try relying on your talent evaluators for Major League talent for trades and it hasn't gone as well. Maybe some Sox scout/evaluator out there was adamant about not trading Tatis but it happened anyway.

You read stories about how the scout for Trout was so convinced he was going to be good it may have swayed the Angel's FO to value him higher and they sweated out seeing if anyone else would pick him.

Lat time I heard Hahn talk about how convinced a scout was about someone it was Manny Banuelos.

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Great thread. It reminds me of how many people criticized Hahn about the Sale trade when Moncada was struggling in his first year. "We should have demanded Benintendi...blah blah blah"

The hindsight bias that exists on this message board (and every sports message board in the history of message boards) is so ridiculous at times. 

Bottom line:  We had three great cost-controlled assets, and Hahn got a great return for all three. In addition, the extensions we gave them prior to that made them such a valuable trade chip. Hahn deserves a lot of credit for those trades.

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21 hours ago, daggins said:

The issue with the Sox has never been trades, its drafting and developing talent, and also FA acquisitions. They've been awful for quite a while.

Bad trades have been a major issue...so bad that after the trades we found out that the talent identification wasn't so bad (development may be another story, but that takes time anyway).  
I didn't think the Cole trade was that bad.  Was Cole going to take himself up 2 levels with the Pirates like he did with the Astros?  He only had 2 years left on his deal.  Joe Musgrove is a solid pitcher (Pirates will probably peddle him this offseason; a situation in which Hahn might take a bite).

Trading for Archer was atrocious  -  on the level of Hahn trading for Samardzija and Shields.  All were indefensible even if the players given up hadn't turned out to be stars.

Edited by GreenSox
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On 10/11/2019 at 5:44 PM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I point to this trade to remind them that they certainly deserve credit for acquiring the right pieces:

Pirates acquire: Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz, and Jason Martin

Astros acquire: Gerrit Cole

Ouch

To be fair Cole's value was down after 2 consecutive 4 era seasons. Still a bad trade going for older mlb ready guys instead of younger guys with upside. I guess the pirates thought they would get 2 cheap "safe" 2 WAR guys but that didn't quite work that way.

 

 

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On 10/14/2019 at 8:46 PM, caulfield12 said:

It's also yet ANOTHER indication that we should be hiring someone from that organization for double their current salary and sticking them behind Hahn and ahead of Haber as the heir-apparent.

My god raid Tampa and Oakland's FO.  

The Sox should operate mostly like them but with occasional 150M payrolls during championship windows. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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7 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

My god raid Tampa and Oakland's FO.  

 The Sox should operate mostly like them but with occasional 150M payrolls during championship windows. 

With occasional average payrolls? Why is everyone lowering their sites so much? The Sox have had good payrolls before the last handful of years. There's no reason to expect any less now.

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12 minutes ago, Sarava said:

With occasional average payrolls? Why is everyone lowering their sites so much? The Sox have had good payrolls before the last handful of years. There's no reason to expect any less now.

It’s pretty clear until they spend at least $50+ million or more on a single FA contract that they’re really not THAT serious about competing for a World Series anytime soon...

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44 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It’s pretty clear until they spend at least $50+ million or more on a single FA contract that they’re really not THAT serious about competing for a World Series anytime soon...

We'll have a better idea on that answer sometime in the next 5 months.

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Gerrit Cole was not a star when the Astros traded for him, he was a good pitcher but had an ERA over 4 at the time of being traded. Their amazing pitching coaches and analytics department turned him into an ace just like they rejuvenated Verlanders career. The White Sox should learn from them but that would require a very modern approach and dumping Cooper.

Edited by JuliusO1274
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