caulfield12 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Fully agree on Wheeler, but don’t think we should be adding pitchers we don’t necessarily like simply to hurt the Twins. Let other teams do that for us. See Kenny Rogers in 2003 and Jim Thome in 2010. All other things being equal...if you lose out on your main targets and you're looking at Odorizzi (without the QO), then you have to strongly consider it. It's not like we shouldn't have plenty of scouting insight and Don Cooper-isms on Jake, Gibson, Pineda and Martin Perez...after facing them so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 .243, 114 strike outs and he's 28. I mean I won't get worked up but I don't get why he's worth all that money and some other 28 year olds are worth pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Hatchetman said: Honestly I'd rather have Avi Garcia at significantly less $$ and years. I didn't want to say it, but ... I'm OK with dat. Edited October 22, 2019 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron883 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I agree with the Avi talk. I'd rather sign Avi cheaply and use what you save on Ozuna on another piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Anything over $80 million for Ozuna...in the words of our intrepid reporter Mr. Gomez, "no bueno!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarava Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 4 hours ago, ron883 said: I agree with the Avi talk. I'd rather sign Avi cheaply and use what you save on Ozuna on another piece. Same with me. I wouldn't even be comfortable with the Sox giving him $80 mil, let alone $160 mil. That's crazy. Avi might be the better option, then use the bulk of the cash on JD Martinez and starting pitching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 I will say that Ozuna’s bat is significantly underrated around here. His wxOBA last year was .379, for reference the best players are right around .400 and league average is .318. Two good comps would be Harper at .388 and Acura at .387, which shows how good of a hitter he really is. Also, Statcast believes he was really unlucky last year and that he was actually a better hitter than he was in 2017 when he put up a 143 wRC+ season. The problem with Ozuna is defense. If his arm hasn’t returned to form, his ability to play RF is compromised. And even then, it sounds like he’s a fundamentally poor OF despite what certain metrics might suggest. I wouldn’t necessarily hate his addition if the price was right (and he was willing to DH some), but I would definitely Grandal & JDM over him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Defending the ball is as important as hitting it. Ozuna doesn't do either well enough to merit 16 million salary. Avi has limited range with an outstanding arm. He hits for average and has good power. Probably does the whole job as well as Ozuna for half the money. I'm not campaigning for Avi as much as being unimpressed with Ozuna. I would prefer Pederson or Calhoun over either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Avi lol. Sox fans have lost their minds. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 53 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Avi lol. Sox fans have lost their minds. Yeah, there's literally about 10 other ideas that are better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Avi lol. Sox fans have lost their minds. I get that people don't like Avi, but the simple fact is that he is a major upgrade over what the Sox trotted out this season, and he is far from the worst option available. He also just played a pretty significant role on a playoff team. While he isn't a perfect player, he hit 25 2B and 20 HR last year with an OPS just about .800. If you are dismissing that guy because of a previous bias, that is foolish. By both bWAR and fWAR, Avi was about a 2 WAR player last season. Are you trying to tell me the Sox don't have room for that? I'd love to hear the explanation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, soxfan2014 said: Yeah, there's literally about 10 other ideas that are better. What are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxJon Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, turnin' two said: What are they? Overpaying Brett Gardner is apparently one of them...people are crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, turnin' two said: I get that people don't like Avi, but the simple fact is that he is a major upgrade over what the Sox trotted out this season, and he is far from the worst option available. He also just played a pretty significant role on a playoff team. While he isn't a perfect player, he hit 25 2B and 20 HR last year with an OPS just about .800. If you are dismissing that guy because of a previous bias, that is foolish. By both bWAR and fWAR, Avi was about a 2 WAR player last season. Are you trying to tell me the Sox don't have room for that? I'd love to hear the explanation. They can do better than oft injured, poor defending 1.5 WAR true talent players that are entering FA. If he had put up the same 1.8 fWAR on the Sox (.340 BABIP) while missing another 40 games people would be paying his freight out of town. Grass is always greener or something. Edited October 22, 2019 by chitownsportsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: They can do better than oft injured, poor defending 1.5 WAR true talent players that are entering FA. If he had put up the same 1.8 fWAR on the Sox (.340 BABIP) while missing another 40 games people would be paying his freight out of town. Grass is always greener or something. The biggest problem with Avi is you have to tell me who is going to take the 150-400 plate appearances he can't take because of injury, and he's not an obvious platoon guy since his stats are well balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 If I had my choice between Avi and Gardner, I would take Avi despite Gardner being a lefty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, turnin' two said: What are they? I refer you to the free agent/trade list provided on the previous page. I'd take Avi over what we trotted out there in 2019 but he's definitely not my plan A, B, C or probably even H. Edited October 22, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, turnin' two said: I get that people don't like Avi, but the simple fact is that he is a major upgrade over what the Sox trotted out this season, and he is far from the worst option available. He also just played a pretty significant role on a playoff team. While he isn't a perfect player, he hit 25 2B and 20 HR last year with an OPS just about .800. If you are dismissing that guy because of a previous bias, that is foolish. By both bWAR and fWAR, Avi was about a 2 WAR player last season. Are you trying to tell me the Sox don't have room for that? I'd love to hear the explanation. I'm dismissing him because hes not good. The Ray's platooned him, playing him strictly when he was most likely to succeed - and he still didnt touch 2 WAR in over 500 AB's. In 5 big league seasons he has a 6.2 WAR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 43 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: The biggest problem with Avi is you have to tell me who is going to take the 150-400 plate appearances he can't take because of injury, and he's not an obvious platoon guy since his stats are well balanced. There's a lot of problems with Avi but that's the biggest one. He's not good enough on a rate basis to bother with given you expect him to miss 30-40 games every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I'm dismissing him because hes not good. The Ray's platooned him, playing him strictly when he was most likely to succeed - and he still didnt touch 2 WAR in over 500 AB's. In 5 big league seasons he has a 6.2 WAR. So 500 PAs in platooning him? Seems pretty regular. I mean, granted I didn't watch a ton of Rays games, but that seems like everyday ABs. Onlly 3 guys on the Rays had more. And he had exactly 2 bWAR... but that is splitting hairs. Is this also conceding that the Sox aren't smart enough to platoon him? And yeah, 6.2 WAR for his career, but 6.1 of it over his last 3 seasons. He isn't perfect, and not the best player, but he is certainly an upgrade. That said, I don't think there is any chance it happens. Sorry, I guess I just wish I could be as smart as you are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnin' two Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: There's a lot of problems with Avi but that's the biggest one. He's not good enough on a rate basis to bother with given you expect him to miss 30-40 games every year. That is completely fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Ozuna made some loud, bone-headed plays this year (including the absolute instant classic where he climbed the fence and the ball ended up landing in front of the warning track) that are dragging both his numbers and reputation down, but his ability and track record suggest he’s perfectly serviceable out there going forward. He’s not too far removed from being a solid CF, and is a former gold glover, for whatever that’s worth (not much, admittedly). Not a plus anymore, but not a problem. Now, $160 million? GTFO But at 5/$75M or so, I can see him satisfying the White Sox free agent craving for declining 2.5WAR position players rather nicely. Edited October 22, 2019 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just now, Eminor3rd said: Ozuna made some loud, bone-headed plays this year (including the absolute instant classic where he climbed the fence and the ball ended up landing in front of the warning track) that are dragging both his numbers and reputation down, but his ability and track record suggest he’s perfectly serviceable out there going forward. He’s not too far removed from being a solid CF, and is a former gold gloves for whatever that’s worth (not much, admittedly). Not a plus anymore, but not a problem. Now, $160 million? GTFO But at 5/$75M or so, I can see him satisfying the White Sox free agent craving for declining 2.5WAR position players rather nicely. Are there any metrics that show arm strength? If he could still throw, I’d be far more interested in him on a deal like you’re proposing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, turnin' two said: So 500 PAs in platooning him? Seems pretty regular. I mean, granted I didn't watch a ton of Rays games, but that seems like everyday ABs. Onlly 3 guys on the Rays had more. And he had exactly 2 bWAR... but that is splitting hairs. Is this also conceding that the Sox aren't smart enough to platoon him? And yeah, 6.2 WAR for his career, but 6.1 of it over his last 3 seasons. He isn't perfect, and not the best player, but he is certainly an upgrade. That said, I don't think there is any chance it happens. Sorry, I guess I just wish I could be as smart as you are. The Sox arent in a position to be signing a platoon based RF'er. 6.1 over 3 seasons isn't good. No need for your snarky last sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Are there any metrics that show arm strength? If he could still throw, I’d be far more interested in him on a deal like you’re proposing. He can't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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