Zack Wheeler Thread

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-wheeler-has-potential-comp-in-gerrit-cole
 

With Cole’s beginning asking price at $250 million (according to Jeff Passan) and Strasburg’s value rocketing into the stratosphere...not to mention the increasing risks 8-9 years out from the previous TJ surgery increasing by the day...Wheeler should be White Sox choice 1, 1A, 1B, 1C.

He’s really the only guy left with true TOR stuff...the article above lists his many parallels with Gerrit Cole.

[poppysox]

59 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-wheeler-has-potential-comp-in-gerrit-cole
 

With Cole’s beginning asking price at $250 million (according to Jeff Passan) and Strasburg’s value rocketing into the stratosphere...not to mention the increasing risks 8-9 years out from the previous TJ surgery increasing by the day...Wheeler should be White Sox choice 1, 1A, 1B, 1C.

He’s really the only guy left with true TOR stuff...the article above lists his many parallels with Gerrit Cole.

"Lock him up."
 

[Jack Parkman]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/zack-wheeler-has-potential-comp-in-gerrit-cole
 

With Cole’s beginning asking price at $250 million (according to Jeff Passan) and Strasburg’s value rocketing into the stratosphere...not to mention the increasing risks 8-9 years out from the previous TJ surgery increasing by the day...Wheeler should be White Sox choice 1, 1A, 1B, 1C.

He’s really the only guy left with true TOR stuff...the article above lists his many parallels with Gerrit Cole.

You and every other team looking for a pitcher. Wheeler is getting more money than most people think and the bidding might get out of the Sox comfort zone. 

If You are thinking this way, you think FOs aren't???

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[SonofaRoache]

14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

You and every other team looking for a pitcher. Wheeler is getting more money than most people think and the bidding might get out of the Sox comfort zone. 

If You are thinking this way, you think FOs aren't???

Yeah, there are about 6 teams that are going after Wheeler because he can be quickly signed with a big offer. The bidding is gonna get high for his services. We need to go after Stras and Wheeler hard. I think Stras would take a 5 year deal at 160 million. This deal wouldn't hamstring the Sox if he falters a few yeats into the deal. At the same time I'd be working on a deal with Wheeler for 6 years and 175 million. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

Wheeler, who could scare some teams off with an injury history that includes two seasons (2015-16) lost to Tommy John surgery, further arm troubles in ‘17 and a short stint on the injured list this July with right shoulder fatigue.  Those concerns aside.

I wish it were that easy.  Writers......

 

 

 

 

[SonofaRoache]

1 minute ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Wheeler, who could scare some teams off with an injury history that includes two seasons (2015-16) lost to Tommy John surgery, further arm troubles in ‘17 and a short stint on the injured list this July with right shoulder fatigue.  Those concerns aside.

I wish it were that easy.  Writers......

Sounds a lot like Carlos Rodon. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by SonofaRoache

[TheFutureIsNear]

A little odd to think that Wheeler is going to develop into Cole when he’s already older...

[caulfield12]

45 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

A little odd to think that Wheeler is going to develop into Cole when he’s already older...

Wheeler and Cole are both 29.

What other pitcher on the FA market has the stuff to be a #2 in our rotation?  Ryu, if he could stay healthy and actually wanted to leave LA, maybe.

Because of all the question marks...Wheeler shouldn’t be getting more than Corbin.

If I had to guess, he should top out in the $100-120 million range.   Cole will get double that...so you’re basically putting almost all your eggs in one basket.

Wheeler allows you to also address RF, DH and bench, bullpen.

Very easy to imagine Wheeler, Grandal, Moustakas and a RH reliever making this team a real threat to do some damage in 2020.  Or Wheeler, JDM and a reliever, if you want to keep it as realistic as possible.  
 

That would still theoretically allow them to look at cheaper options for RF that are just looking for everyday opportunities to rebuild their value, like Dickerson, Gennett, etc.

[SonofaRoache]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wheeler and Cole are both 29.

What other pitcher on the FA market has the stuff to be a #2 in our rotation?  Ryu, if he could stay healthy and actually wanted to leave LA, maybe.

Because of all the question marks...Wheeler shouldn’t be getting more than Corbin.

If I had to guess, he should top out in the $100-120 million range.   Cole will get double that...so you’re basically putting almost all your eggs in one basket.

Wheeler allows you to also address RF, DH and bench, bullpen.

Very easy to imagine Wheeler, Grandal, Moustakas and a RH reliever making this team a real threat to do some damage in 2020.  Or Wheeler, JDM and a reliever, if you want to keep it as realistic as possible.  
 

That would still theoretically allow them to look at cheaper options for RF that are just looking for everyday opportunities to rebuild their value, like Dickerson, Gennett, etc.

Wheeler is gonna top out at 150 or 160. There will be a bidding war for his services. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wheeler and Cole are both 29.

What other pitcher on the FA market has the stuff to be a #2 in our rotation?  Ryu, if he could stay healthy and actually wanted to leave LA, maybe.

Because of all the question marks...Wheeler shouldn’t be getting more than Corbin.

If I had to guess, he should top out in the $100-120 million range.   Cole will get double that...so you’re basically putting almost all your eggs in one basket.

Wheeler allows you to also address RF, DH and bench, bullpen.

Very easy to imagine Wheeler, Grandal, Moustakas and a RH reliever making this team a real threat to do some damage in 2020.  Or Wheeler, JDM and a reliever, if you want to keep it as realistic as possible.  
 

That would still theoretically allow them to look at cheaper options for RF that are just looking for everyday opportunities to rebuild their value, like Dickerson, Gennett, etc.

Never said we shouldn’t sign wheeler...was more a comment toward the article you posted suggesting that Wheeler could break out into the next Cole. Just pointing out that Wheeler is already a few months older and Cole really showed his elite ability back in 2015. Wheeler has been very good, but hasn’t shown that truly elite ability yet and is already 29, doubt it’s happening but crazier things have happened. 
But I agree that he’s a really good #3 that you hope gives you #2 production more often than not and that he’d be a great signing for us. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

A little odd to think that Wheeler is going to develop into Cole when he’s already older...

He's thrown nearly 500 fewer innings in his career - 2+ full seasons. In baseball years he's younger.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

26 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Wheeler is gonna top out at 150 or 160. There will be a bidding war for his services. 

150-160? Zero chance.

115-130 will be his zone. Corbin got 125 and he had thrown more innings, was coming off a better year and had a lesser injury history.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[ptatc]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

You and every other team looking for a pitcher. Wheeler is getting more money than most people think and the bidding might get out of the Sox comfort zone. 

If You are thinking this way, you think FOs aren't???

The money wouldn't concern me as much as the years.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

20 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Never said we shouldn’t sign wheeler...was more a comment toward the article you posted suggesting that Wheeler could break out into the next Cole. Just pointing out that Wheeler is already a few months older and Cole really showed his elite ability back in 2015. Wheeler has been very good, but hasn’t shown that truly elite ability yet and is already 29, doubt it’s happening but crazier things have happened. 
But I agree that he’s a really good #3 that you hope gives you #2 production more often than not and that he’d be a great signing for us. 

Scherzer is a better comp than Cole - for the exact reason you mentioned, cole was very good very young.

Max and Wheeler have a lot of similarities through their age 29 seasons. 

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He's thrown nearly 500 fewer innings in his career - 2+ full seasons. In baseball years he's younger.

Not in injury and physiologic years. Tissues don't heal as well after a certain age, especially with previous injuries. Number of innings don't matter for that.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Not in injury and physiologic years. Tissues don't heal as well after a certain age, especially with previous injuries. Number of innings don't matter for that.

I hear you, but I'd note that he was 25 at time of injury and his arm has bounced back stronger than pre-injury. Innings destroys arms as you know; I wouldn't be surprised if a study was done that said innings missed due to injury might be better for your arm in the long run due to the wear and tear.

Similarly to how players who had concussions and missed time might have brains in better shape than guys who didn't have big concussions but played every day.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Jack Parkman]

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The money wouldn't concern me as much as the years.

That too. He's getting at least 5/100.

That's why Cole scares me but then again, Scherzer is 5 years into a 7 year deal and still dealing when he pitches. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

150-160? Zero chance.

115-130 will be his zone. Corbin got 125 and he had thrown more innings, was coming off a better year and had a lesser injury history.

Corbin literally got $140 million, not $125. 

[caulfield12]

Ryu is a ticking time bomb.  Bumgarner’s declining...and not a great fit for the AL or our clubhouse.  He’s certainly not optimal considering his last near-peak year is still probably a non-contending one for the White Sox.   Odorizzi is solid, not sexy, very familiar to Don Cooper, probably ends up in the $60-75 million range.

The White Sox can have one Cole, two Wheelers or 3 1/2 Odorizzis.

We certainly know it won’t be Cole, Rendon or Strasburg.

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Corbin literally got $140 million, not $125. 

Wasnt counting this year - that's my bad. 

Regardless, I think Corbin had a better case in free agency than Wheeler regardless of how highly I view Wheeler.

Their actually pretty similar, but wheeler will be a year older in the first year of his deal. 

I'd still say he falls within 115-125 - especially given the fact that there are more options this year on the SP market than there was when Corbin signed.

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That too. He's getting at least 5/100.

That's why Cole scares me but then again, Scherzer is 5 years into a 7 year deal and still dealing when he pitches. 

How many pitchers have lasted into their early to mid 30’s still throwing 96-99 mph without a major injury?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That too. He's getting at least 5/100.

That's why Cole scares me but then again, Scherzer is 5 years into a 7 year deal and still dealing when he pitches. 

Scherzer is one of 2 pitchers in 50 years who have had a career trajectory like his. Expecting that from anyone else is crazy - even  if I am high on Wheeler. Scherzer is a freak of nature- his game has matured like wine. That isn't the norm and should never be expected.

[Jack Parkman]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Ryu is a ticking time bomb.  Bumgarner’s declining...and not a great fit for the AL or our clubhouse.  He’s certainly not optimal considering his last near-peak year is still probably a non-contending one for the White Sox.   Odorizzi is solid, not sexy, very familiar to Don Cooper, probably ends up in the $60-75 million range.

The White Sox can have one Cole, two Wheelers or 3 1/2 Odorizzis.

We certainly know it won’t be Cole, Rendon or Strasburg.

 

We're all off on our player valuations. Whatever you think it is, add 20-30%. Wheeler's getting in the $115-130 range, Odorizzi is getting $85-100, Strasburg in the $160-175 range and Cole in the $250+ range. 

Mo money, Mo years. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Jack Parkman

[Jack Parkman]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Scherzer is one of 2 pitchers in 50 years who have had a career trajectory like his. Expecting that from anyone else is crazy - even  if I am high on Wheeler. Scherzer is a freak of nature- his game has matured like wine. That isn't the norm and should never be expected.

No arguments there, but you never know. 

[Good Guys]

If Cole and Strasburg are off the table then Wheeler should be priority #1 this offseason.  I would like to see 2 starters signed this offseason and wouldn't mind bringing back Quintana to pair with Wheeler if he's available.